Bully

[W3526602]

Hi,

 

Just come home from a trip to Bristol. Barbara driving her KIA Picanto throught the Newport tunnel. Outer lane, at spot on 50mph, cos that was the speed limit. Inner lane was nose to tail traffic, outer lane similar, but we had about a 50M gap in front of us.

 

Big truck comes up behind ..... OK, it was probably sub-HGV, but still big enough. Holds station about 3M behind us. Barbara dabs the brakes from time to time, to keep at 50mph. This seemed to upset Yorkie, cos he closed the gap to about 2M, then started tp blast his horn. Wonderful echo in tunnel. I'm not sure what he expected us to do. ????

 

I pulled a paper and pen off the dashboard, and wrote down his number ...... and suddenly he wasn't there any more. Somehow he had forced his way into the inner lane. Last I saw of him, he was tailgating a BMW convertible.

 

What can you do?

 

602

[kelly58]

Report the incident to the police giving full details they can then trace the company through the veh registry they will get a record of who was driving from the taco records and bingo got your man red handed time date speed all recorded also most hgv's now have tracker devices installed so the company can look back as to where their vehicle was or is at any given time.

[zeddykay]

I sympathise, and it happens a lot to us, but have you noticed that all HGVs seem to go faster than cars in 50 limits on Mways even with average speed cameras. Read somewhere, Honest John in Telegraph I think, that tachos are much more accurate than speedos to about 5 MPH. I checked this with my satnav, Speedo read 50 ,satnav said 46. Hence trucks get annoyed and tailgate us. Not trying to justify the dangerous driving, but maybe here is an explanation, so even if you got hold of the tacho record they would be in the clear

[flicka]

Fully sympathise with you, but long gone are the days when Truckers were Knights of the Road.

A high majority of Truckers have converted to self appointed Owners of the tarmac and will do anything to maintain their maximum 56mph.

 

On a local section of dual carriageway it is notorious & common to get 2 HGV's battling side by side for supremacy, knowing they are both governed to the 56mph. Eventually one has to give way. Often this results in the one in the outside lane dropping back behind the one he was trying to overtake for the last 3 miles.

 

 

[davenewellhome]

kelly58 - 2010-06-04 6:35 PM

 

Report the incident to the police giving full details they can then trace the company through the veh registry they will get a record of who was driving from the taco records and bingo got your man red handed time date speed all recorded also most hgv's now have tracker devices installed so the company can look back as to where their vehicle was or is at any given time.

 

Isn't this a lovely idea? About seven years ago I was literally run off the M6 by a 40 Tonne truck while on my way to work simply because I was obeying the 50MPH limit in force at the time and Mr Big with his 40 Tonne unmarked truck felt he could intimidate me.

 

I took his number and as soon as I got to work reported it to the police who did absolutely diddly squat! They said it would be terribly difficult to trace the truck as it could have continued on the M6 or turned onto either the M42 Northbound or M42 Southbound or even taken one of the minor roads off the M6. I asked about tracing the truck and driver through reg No and Tacho records and was told that it would be far too much work for a minor offence which didn't result in a RTA and where nobody was injured!

 

Well thank you very much, next time I'll drive into the crash barriers at 50MPH and then (hopefully) stand back to watch the Great British Police force swing into action to apprehend the culprit!

 

D.

[art338]

Send a report to the DFT, Department for Transport. There's plenty of info on Google.

 

art

[rolandrat]

Tachographs are calibrated on a regular basis and are checked at their annual MOT. As regards tachograph records all the latest HGV's are fitted with Digital tachographs and drivers have to insert a Digital card similar to a credit card where all the information is stored, if the driver is stopped by the police or Vosa they can download all the relevant information there and then. I think it would be a good idea to have them fitted in cars as well so that they can be monitored in a similar way it would certainly cut a lot of speeding out if the driver knew that his car was being monitored by the DVLA.

[davenewellhome]

rolandrat - 2010-06-04 9:11 PM

 

Tachographs are calibrated on a regular basis and are checked at their annual MOT. As regards tachograph records all the latest HGV's are fitted with Digital tachographs and drivers have to insert a Digital card similar to a credit card where all the information is stored, if the driver is stopped by the police or Vosa they can download all the relevant information there and then. I think it would be a good idea to have them fitted in cars as well so that they can be monitored in a similar way it would certainly cut a lot of speeding out if the driver knew that his car was being monitored by the DVLA.

 

While I agree with what you say all I can add is read my previous answer. If plod can't be bothered to follow a report up because nobody was hurt or an RTA didn't result from the incident then what's the point?

 

D.

[Guest peter]

W3526602 - 2010-06-04 5:08 PM

 

Hi,

 

Just come home from a trip to Bristol. Barbara driving her KIA Picanto throught the Newport tunnel. Outer lane, at spot on 50mph, cos that was the speed limit. Inner lane was nose to tail traffic, outer lane similar, but we had about a 50M gap in front of us.

 

Big truck comes up behind ..... OK, it was probably sub-HGV, but still big enough. Holds station about 3M behind us. Barbara dabs the brakes from time to time, to keep at 50mph. This seemed to upset Yorkie, cos he closed the gap to about 2M, then started tp blast his horn. Wonderful echo in tunnel. I'm not sure what he expected us to do. ????

 

I pulled a paper and pen off the dashboard, and wrote down his number ...... and suddenly he wasn't there any more. Somehow he had forced his way into the inner lane. Last I saw of him, he was tailgating a BMW convertible.

 

What can you do?

 

602

Keep your foot on the accelerator and dab brake with left foot. When the brake lights ome on they soon back off. Arogant barstewards.

[tyreman]

there`s cameras in the tunnels,if you report it the authorities can check the footage

[W3526602]

Hi,

 

Thanks for your support, I'm still pondering on what to do. I don't like reporting other drivers, because I know that there have been times when my own driving has fallen a little short.

 

On the other hand, this driver was chucking (or trying to) a big truck full of scaffolding (he passed us on the inside soon after), through heavy traffic, like he was driving a sports car. His is dangerous. Scary!

 

602

[rolandrat]

Stalwart, Genuine Professional Drivers "DO NOT" behave in the manner you have described, I have been an HGV ADR driver all my life and I take your comments in a very bad light. The driver you encountered is definitely not a true professional. Believe me there are some very bad car drivers on the roads who dart into the safe brakeing distances that HGV's keep to because of the heavy loads they are carrying. My advice to you is report the incident to the police and also to his employer if you feel so strongly about it but in your own words you mention your own driving isn't always as it should be.

[Randonneur]

rolandrat - 2010-06-05 8:28 AM

 

Stalwart, Genuine Professional Drivers "DO NOT" behave in the manner you have described, I have been an HGV ADR driver all my life and I take your comments in a very bad light. The driver you encountered is definitely not a true professional. Believe me there are some very bad car drivers on the roads who dart into the safe brakeing distances that HGV's keep to because of the heavy loads they are carrying. My advice to you is report the incident to the police and also to his employer if you feel so strongly about it but in your own words you mention your own driving isn't always as it should be.

 

All I can say is that you want to come and watch these drivers on the N10 through the Charente to Bordeaux, they are a nightmare. Luckily parts of the N10 the HGVs cannot overtake each other.

[malc d]

At the risk of giving a different view ( and I have no particular love for HGV drivers ) , my theory is that he got irritated by the fact that the driver in front kept dabbing their brakes. That does tend to irritate people when you are all supposed to be maintaining a steady speed.

 

On another thread it was said that these days drivers are taught to use their brakes instead of their gears to control their speed, so maybe he was from the 'old school'.

 

It's interesting that he chose to move into the inner lane which was much more congested - did he continue to hoot in that lane, where presumably he was going slower ?

 

Having said all that his action was totally wrong, and if he can't take the pressures of driving without losing his temper, maybe it's time he changed his occupation ( for everyone elses' sake )

 

 

 

:-(

[Rayjsj]

I must admit that coming from the 'Old school' and using my gears to slow before using brakes (i still think it's safer !!), someone in front with brake lights continually coming on annoys me too, but my reaction is to pull further back away from them (so I don't smack into them when they do 'Mean it') this guy was obviously in a hurry and had no patience, a dangerous combination which will one day cause him grief (and he'll probably blame the other driver too !!) . I agree a Bully. Ray

[Andy_C]

W3526602 - 2010-06-05 5:30 AM

 

Hi,

 

Thanks for your support, I'm still pondering on what to do. I don't like reporting other drivers, because I know that there have been times when my own driving has fallen a little short.

 

On the other hand, this driver was chucking (or trying to) a big truck full of scaffolding (he passed us on the inside soon after), through heavy traffic, like he was driving a sports car. His is dangerous. Scary!

 

602

If there was enough room for him to pass you on the inside, that would indicate that you were in the outside lane but travelling slower than the traffic on the inside lane...

 

Andy

 

[rolandrat]

I agree that the HGV driver was a total prat based on what was described but there are always two sides to consider before condemning anyone. Sometimes the employers are just as much to blame for pressurising the drivers to complete a journey because since the mobile phones came in its all to easy to ring a driver and ask how long are you going to be as the customer is waiting for the load etc. I have known drivers to be threatened if they don't complete so many runs. How often do you see car drivers leaving it to the last minute before cutting across all the motorway lanes to exit a junction or overtaking in the nearside lane, and has been mentioned, writing down someones particulars whilst driving. That is a complete no no just like using a mobile phone whilst driving is.

[fred22]

rolandrat - 2010-06-05 7:28 AM

 

Stalwart, Genuine Professional Drivers "DO NOT" behave in the manner you have described, I have been an HGV ADR driver all my life and I take your comments in a very bad light. The driver you encountered is definitely not a true professional. Believe me there are some very bad car drivers on the roads who dart into the safe braking distances that HGVs keep to because of the heavy loads they are carrying. My advice to you is report the incident to the police and also to his employer if you feel so strongly about it but in your own words you mention your own driving isn't always as it should be.

I must see an awful lot of non professional lorry drivers. I live just off the M6 and use it regularly and I cannot remember the last time I saw a lorry driver who left a safe braking distance between him and the vehicle in front. About 10' (or even less) seems to be the norm. Bad enough if the vehicle in front is another lorry but as the stopping distance for a car is a lot less than for a loaded lorry this is an accident looking for somewhere to happen.

I myself have been followed at 60mph by a lorry so close I could not read it's number plate.

How often are lorry speed limiters checked I wonder, even taking into account speedometer errors I cannot understand why I have to do 70mph to overtake a vehicle which is supposed to have a max speed of 56mph.

Whilst towing my caravan on the M6 I encountered two lorries, one trying to overtake the other, the middle lane was blocked for 15 miles as neither would give way, and of course I could not get by as I was excluded from the outside lane.

Have to agree some lorry drivers are no longer "Knights of The Road"

[Brock]

I would never condone aggressive driving by anyone whether a trucker or not. As has been stated, the speed limiters in trucks are very accurate to speedos in cars and even satnavs. Hence 50 mph to a car may be less than 50 mph to a lorry.

 

I don't go with the argument that truckers are not professional. You only need to read the reports in the trucking media to realise that VOSA and the Traffic Commissioners crack down on rogue firms and drivers. UK drivers have to go through exhaustive testing to get and keep their licence.

 

The knights of the road in the old days often drove unsafe lorries which were also over loaded. They helped each other because it kept the authorities away.

Give me a modern trucker with a state of the art lorry any day.

 

Statistically there are fewer crashes involving lorries than cars. You are twice as likely to have a crash in the outside lane - not inhabited by lorries - than in the inside lane.

 

I think many of the problems on the roads come from a lack of understanding. Car drivers don't appreciate how difficult it is to drive a truck fuel efficiently, truckers can get stressed by car drivers who swarm like mosquitoes around their blind spot.

 

I am really sorry for Barbara. It could not have been a nice experience. I hope it hasn't put her off driving. Best bet is to report the vehicle to the company. Most care about the standard of driving of their vehicles because of the reputational impact, potential insurance claims, and the fear of the Traffic Commissioner. They should be able to pinpoint which truck was in the area because most now having tracking devices.

[Brian Kirby]

Well, this is more fun that I thought possible!  Lorries loaded with scaffold poles often belong to.......................yes, scaffolders!  At the risk of adding all the forum scaffolders to the list of the offended, they tend to be one of the hairier elements in the building trades, and are not generally renowned for their attitude to their own safety, so one may reasonably assume the driver of this truck was in a hurry, and not fully attentive to the safety of others.  After all, in the foreseeable crash, who would come off worst?

Of course it was an appallingly dangerous and stupid piece of driving, and would have been so if he had been driving a car: in a truck it is potentially murderous.

All these mealy-mouthed excuses: car drivers don't understand us, we're not all perfect, don't rush to criticise, his boss may be leaning on him!  What rubbish! 

When you drive a vehicle, you drive it, not the boss, the car driver behind you, or anyone else.  Like the captain of a ship you, and you alone, are responsible.  How you drive it is your decision, but it must be driven reasonably, taking into account the frailties and fallibility of other road users.  After, as stated above, we all make mistakes and misjudgements from time to time.  Where was this drivers allowance for that?  This driving, as described, was totally unreasonable, and potentially very dangerous, the more so in the confines of a tunnel.

As to car drivers not understanding HGV driving, how the hell can they, they don't drive HGVs?  Durrrrrh!  IMO, that merely places the onus on the HGV driver take account of the ignorance of car drivers, and to anticipate their silly ways.  I don't deny that it is annoying, and a considerable additional strain on the driver and his patience, but that is where their professionalism is supposed to come to the fore.  It is, after all, what they do as a day job.  It is what they get paid for.  If they can't cope, maybe they should throw in the towel; it is demanding of concentration and mental stamina, and it is profoundly unhealthy, but it is not the most difficult job on the planet either.

From my experience, HGV drivers in the UK actually get a pretty easy ride compared to other countries.  For example, most (though not all) car drivers in UK allow "artics" room on roundabouts, unlike the chumps in Spain, Italy, Portugal, and a fair bit of Eastern Europe, who just pile in to fill all available spaces and leave the HGV drivers to sort things out for them.  Now that requires real patience on the part of the HGV driver, yet they seem to just accept that is what car drivers do!  Come on guys, stop defending the indefensible on self-serving spurious grounds, this was rank, awful, dangerous, driving, whoever did it, in whatever vehicle.

[Tomo3090]

Digital tachos are on any HGV post 2006 and log everything the vehicle does over a 24 hour period and the driver has no access to this data to change or amend it. there is the facility to get a print out of your day and you can write into the margin certain circumstances in case you are stopped by the police, but you can't change it.

 

The card is then downloaded by the traffic office on return to the depot and records are kept there. The card also records "overspeeds", i.e where you exceed the speed limit for more than a minute. It also tells you how many minutes you were speeding for.

 

In the event of an accident or being checked by VOSA or the police they can work out your speed over a journey, braking distances, breaks from driving and time being worked away from the cab.

 

Vehicles over 7.5 tonnes are limited to 40MPH on a single carriageway, 50 on a dual carriageway and 56 on a motorway.

 

HGV drivers are highly trained and stand to lose their jobs and licences if they abuse the system, (quite rightly too if they do abuse it), but how many times have you undertaken on the motorway, driven too close to the vehicle in front, broke the speed limit, driven for more hours than you knew was safe, had little sleep then driven?

 

We've ALL done at least one of these during our time on the road so let's not get too sanctimonious.

 

Incidentaly I was driving to Scotland last night and was passed by two motorhomes, a Hymer and a Swift, less than 3 metres apart driving at well over 70, and a 4X4 towing a caravan at over 70.

 

 

[Brock]

Brian, I don't drive a lorry but I can imagine what it is like to drive a lorry. Buy a lorry magazine, watch the TV, read the press, think how you would cope with 25' long scaffold poles or 25 tonnes of groceries for your supermarket. Just think how many gears a lorry must have (unless a modern automatic), and how long it takes to get back up to speed and drive in the environmentally friendly 'green band'. You'll get the idea. It's not difficult.

 

I drive my motorhome with a degree of understanding of other road users. That was how I was taught.

 

Nobody is defending aggressive and dangerous driving. And most of us have offered practical advice on what to do about the incident.

[Philjp]

The M4 is no longer patrolled by Traffic police and there are no Vosa Patrols either. IF you report the incident to Gwent Police ( They monitor the cameras in the Bryn glass tunnels) They will ask you if you want to make a complaint, If your answer is no then they will take no action.This is a daily Problem with Lorries around Newport due to it being only 2 lanes.Soon the entire section from J24 to J29 will be a controlled viarable speed with overhead speed cameras just like the M25

[W3526602]

Hi,

 

I'm guessing this wasn't an old school HGV driver. My first impreesion was that a girl was driving, long blonde hair. Also, I think the truck was sub-HGV. Scaffolding may suggest he was a local driver.

 

I assumed he saw me start to write down his registration, and FORCED his way into the inner lane. And yes, the inner lane traffic, later, did travel faster than us in the outer lane. I have no complaint with that.

 

As far as we were concerned, there was no room for us to move into inner lane, to get out of his way. Barbara could have closed the gap in front of her, which would have solved nothing, but would have reduced her stopping dstance. As it was, her stopping distance would have allowed her to give Yorkie behind a bit of stopping distance too. (Its been many years since I have been in a crash-stop situation, and had to lift off because the car behind was catching up with me).

 

Yes, I have made errors of judgement, which Plod might take a dim view of, (haven't we all?), but I cannot ever remember using my car like a weapon.

 

602

[Camperdude]

W3526602 - 2010-06-04 5:08 PM

 

.... Holds station about 3M behind us. Barbara dabs the brakes from time to time, to keep at 50mph. This seemed to upset Yorkie, cos he closed the gap to about 2M, then started tp blast his horn. Wonderful echo in tunnel. I'm not sure what he expected us to do. ????

 

 

602

 

I think the dabbing of your brakes probably annoyed the driver because some people do that to make the point that they think the vehicle behind is driving too close to them.

 

Definatley not an excuse for dangerous driving though!

 

That stretch of the M4 is notorious for accidents especially as cars exit the Brynglas Tunnel. The whole stretch is resticted to 50MPH monitored by average speed cameras. Seems to me that a majority of drivers ignore lower speed limits until they see these cameras!

 

I'm not a fan of speed cameras but the average speed appears to be the only way to stop some drivers from ignoring lower speed limits!

 

If you feel strongly about it you should report it.

 

Regards

 

John