Auto-Sleeper Trooper Roof Failure

[altipueri]

I've had my electric elevating roof fail on an Auto-Sleepers Trooper T5.

 

Auto-Sleepers at first wanted £4,900 to fix this but they've reduced this to £2,350.

 

I think it's a design fault as several dealers have told me they know about problems with this roof design and that it has now been withdrawn.

 

My dealer is supportive but as only Auto-Sleepers have the drawings and parts I'm stuck.

 

Anybody else know of these issues and how they were handled?

[flicka]

Hi Altipueri & welcome to the forum.

As the Trooper is on the VW T5, I.m guessing it could still be under warranty & if so it is the responsiblity of the Dealer to correct without cost.

(this assumes failure is not due to misuse)

If you can post the year of manufacture of your Trooper & details of the cause / type of failure, it would help.

 

[altipueri]

Thanks for your reply.

 

It failed just under 3 years from purchase.

 

There are electric motors/rams on each side. They don't synchronise and so end up pushing against each other and the roof twists and the scissor bars bend.

 

Speaking with several dealers and manufacturers of other roofs at the Stratford show and elsewhere it seems this is known in the trade as a problem. In fact when I took it back to Auto-Sleepers factory there was another in the workshop being repaired for the same problem.

 

One of the engineers told me they had had about 25 or 26 out of the 50 or so made in total back for repair.

 

The customer service manager told me that even if the roof was repaired there was only a 75% chance it would last 5 years. I reckon a roof conversion should last the life of the vehicle, say at least ten years.

 

They also offered to convert it to a manual roof for about £7,500 !

 

My dealer can't fix it himself - it needs to go back to Auto-Sleepers.

 

I reckon it's not fit for purpose with that failure rate but I probably need to find out what has happened to other people to confirm what I was told.

 

Thanks again for your reply.

 

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

Do please remember that it is your dealer who is legally responsible for the goods he sold.  I hope at least the arrangement to return the vehicle to Autosleepers factory was made by him, although strictly, it should have been the dealer himself who took it back.  It does not matter whether or not he can fix it himself, he sold it so, legally, the problem is his for six years from the date you bought it.

Is there a manual version of the roof that could be fitted instead, since the powered version appears unreliable?  If so, I would assume that might be the cheaper solution, assuming it would be practical for you to use.  Failing that, conversion to a fixed high top might be a way out, but I assume you had a reason for choosing a rising roof originally, so this may be impractical for you.

In view of the costs that are being bandied about, I think you should go and have a chat to your local Trading Standards people to find out where you stand legally.  The fact that the van is now three years old need not rule out all legal routes, if that is where you end up.  Hopefully not!  You should not need to prove this is a widespread problem to establish that yours is defective.

I think it might pay you to get Autosleepers to confirm your options, with costs, including if available/acceptable, a manual rising roof.  You need this before taking matters any further with the dealer.  I think you should also write to the dealer, as advised by Trading Standards, to advise them of the defect, and that you are not happy with the failure, and ask them how they propose putting things right.  It would be a good idea to speak further to the dealer in the meantime, to advise them the outcome of your visit to Autosleepers, and to see what they are willing to offer.  They should be helping you, so they must be involved.

After three years it is unlikely you will get a "free" remedy, because you will have had three years use of the existing roof.  However, it would be unreasonable for both the dealer (who sold the goods and has legal liability) and Autosleepers (who made them, but has little to no legal liability) to refuse to share your costs with you, and a negotiated settlement around the most economical long term solution seems to me the "least worst" outcome that should be achievable. 

You may find all are amenable to gentle persuasion, or you may find you need a bit of legal leverage, and that is why I have suggested getting AS to quote for the work now, while you talk to TS to make sure you have your ducks all in a row.  Negotiation will be by far the best approach, but writing the "wrong" letter to the dealer at this stage could prejudice your future chances of success, if you find the legal route is your only course, so go steady!  Hope this helps, and good luck.

[altipueri]

Thanks for your reply.

 

The quotes were:

 

Repair electric roof - £4,900 - later reduced to £2,350 after haggle.

Convert to high top - £6,000

Convert to manual - £7,500

 

I've rounded these sums because I don't have the email quote with me - I'll edit this post when I can get the exact ones.

 

A website www.lawgistics.co.uk gave me the feeling that I had a stronger position. I'll give full link when I can - I'm away until tomorrow.

 

Edit - I forgot to mention - I offered to wait until the quiet autumn/winter period so their workshop was not busy; and I offered a £500 charitable donation; but I wanted the repair done free as I felt the roof had inherent design faults. They stuck at £2,350.

 

Thanks for your long reply.

 

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

Be very guarded from now on what you say on here.  Manufacturers and dealers both monitor this forum and, in view of your particular circumstances, and the small number of vans potentially involved, you will be identifiable, which may not be in your ultimate interest.

The old adage that free legal advice is not worth the paper it is written on remains, IMO, true.  I'd speak first to TS, then the dealer, and then consider how to proceed.

Regarding those prices, do they give a breakdown into labour and materials?  Merely repairing the existing roof should not require much in the way of materials, unless they propose replacing most of the components. 

They built a defective roof, so the very least they should do is put it right at cost.  Teach them to be more careful in future.  Seeking to make further profit out of their initial failure is a huge breach of trust with their customer.  I would expect much better from any firm seeking to safeguard a reputation.  Cheeky sods!  :-(

[Guest JudgeMental]

I am sure you could find an alternative high top roof for a fraction of those quotes *-)

[flicka]

Surely conversion to a manually operated roof should be the cheapest option if it comes to have to pay a portion of the cost. The Roof itself represents the highest % of the cost.

It would only entail removal of the Electrics and fitting the manual lever(s), whilst utilising the existing roof. (even if mounting points on the roof had to be reinforced.

 

But a Brian says, contacting Trading Standards should be your first move.

If all else fails, I suggest you obtain quotes from alternative convertors of the T5 Vdub.

[Camperdude]

altipueri - 2010-06-08 7:00 PM

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

The quotes were:

 

Repair electric roof - £4,900 - later reduced to £2,350 after haggle.

Convert to high top - £6,000

Convert to manual - £7,500

 

I've rounded these sums because I don't have the email quote with me - I'll edit this post when I can get the exact ones.

 

A website www.lawgistics.co.uk gave me the feeling that I had a stronger position. I'll give full link when I can - I'm away until tomorrow.

 

Edit - I forgot to mention - I offered to wait until the quiet autumn/winter period so their workshop was not busy; and I offered a £500 charitable donation; but I wanted the repair done free as I felt the roof had inherent design faults. They stuck at £2,350.

 

Thanks for your long reply.

 

 

 

Those prices seem really high! Apart form the fact you've paid a premium price for a supposedly premium product, no-one would be happy to accept that sort of repair cost just outside of the warranty period.

 

The website below quotes £3500 for a complete Reimo manual elevating roof so why A/S want to charge twice that just to convert to manual is hard to understand! A/S use the Reimo roof also!

 

Perhaps it might be worth contacting Rainbow Conversions to see if they would quote to convert your roof to manual then go back to your dealer or A/S if the quote is lower.

 

http://www.rainbowconversions.co.uk/Roofs/roofs.htm

 

Hope you come to a satisfactory conclusion with your negotiations

 

Regards

 

John

[altipueri]

Thanks for all your points.

 

I said I would confirm the prices - the original quotes were:

Renew electric roof - £4,807.57 - since reduced to £2,350.00

Go Hi-Top - £7,235.29

Go manual - £7,777.89

 

I returned home today (9 June) and there was a letter from the MD in reply to my deeply unpleasant letter of a few days ago. They are sticking at £2,350.00, but may re-quote using re-conditioned parts if I want to go down that route. He also apologised for the inconvenience caused which I should give credit for because so far I've felt rather blanked.

 

The original purpose of this thread was to find other owners who had the same issue, but we rather ended up down the consumer rights route. Having started the thread I owe it to you to let you know what happens.

 

In response to some of your posts:

 

Reimo roof - apparently they tried this on another one but had problems - I presume something to do with the bits of roof already cut out. So the manual option is the old Trooper Classic roof.

 

I agree with Brian (I think, as I can only see one post writing this) that it's the paying once for a dud product and then paying again for a repair that drives one towards apoplexy and insanity. This was a premium product with a brand in the industry, not a back street garage bloke having his first few goes at van conversions.

 

Thanks again for your views

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

For the price Autosleepers is asking to merely repair what is there, I would have thought a complete replacement might be possible.  So: I do not know if this is possible, so forgive me if it is not, but I wonder if a call to Bilbos might give an alternative approach.  Their side hinged rising roof, as fitted to their own conversions, is a good quality product, and they may be up to replacing yours with one of theirs.  (A22, just South of South Godstone, Surrey.) Failing them, another quality converter is Murvi, and they do rising roof conversions on VWs.  (Ivybridge, Devon)  Both also do high tops.

[altipueri]

Update:

 

Still haggling. Got meeting with MD at their factory this afternoon.

[Guest JudgeMental]

altipueri - 2010-06-28 11:35 AM

 

Update:

 

Still haggling. Got meeting with MD at their factory this afternoon.

 

forget about the 3 years warranty, sales of goods act stipulates goods must be usable/merchantable quality for 6 years I think. Take them to small claims court, it costs £50? you have a quote for fixing, you have your warranty, and a court order will help galvanise the dealers thought processes *-)

 

you could have done this in the meantime and be in a much stronger position to negotiate :-S

[hallii]

I think that it should be possible to synchronise two electric motors.

 

If these are "stepper" types then it should be easy.

 

If they are "ordinary" electric motors it should be possible to convert them to a suitable type complete with electronic controls.

 

I am guessing that they are ordinary electric motors and that one runs faster/slower than the other, if so that is the usual case, no two motors even if identical will run at the same speed.

 

Might be worth speaking to someone in electronics.

 

Hallii

 

[altipueri]

Update

 

I had my meeting with the MD and we came to an agreement which has yet to be completed because of timing/holidays etc.

 

I'll let you know when it's finally done.

[altipueri]

Just an update to say it was repaired last year.

 

Thanks to those of you who gave me advice and support.