Tomo3090 Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 Had something given to us in work this evening about the new VOSA over weight penalties, well not new but a reminder of the limits. If you go 0-10% over your permitted weight it is a fixed penalty of £60.00. You either pay then or within 7 days. 10-15% over = £120 FP. 15+% over = £200 FP. Anything over 30% overweight and it's an automatic court summons and then the penalty is up to the courts. The vehicle examiner also has the legal right to forbid you to proceed if, in their opinion it would be unsafe to allow you to continue. Just thought I'd let you know it's even more important to weigh your vehicles accurately before setting off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 Surely that cant be right! 10% is a whooping 350kg on a 3500kg van *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magbrin Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 What is the situation in France and Spain - that is where the problem is likely to arise - overloading with the all important vino :'( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawki Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 That’s very interesting Tomo, But only £60 for being 10% over, I would have expected it would have been a lot more than that. Plus he can stop you from proceeding if he thinks it’s unsafe to carry on, surely any overweight vehicle is unsafe to proceed reason being we have just been fined for driving it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike 202 Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 Tomo thanks for the info, I have and am still having a nightmare with regards to my Autosleepers weight.The paper that you have states 0-10%, but how accurate are VOSA scales, they cannot be more than 1% otherwise you need temperature controlled garage to weigh a vehicle and ensure that the temperature settles before weighing begins.I spent a long time in an environmental lab so I know what I am talking about regards measurements.Also if you weigh a van in the dry then re-weigh it having driven it in pouring rain then how much extra will a wet chassis, wet van and roof (which may have a puddle on it) weigh. A good few kilo I suspect, just think of drying it with a chamois leather and keep ringing it out.So a bit like the police with speed limit +10% + 2mph to allow for inaccuracies on their equipment, there must be a tolerance of say 1% which equals 35Kg. Otherwise I for one could pull their weight accuracy to bits.. I am ensuring that my van weighs 10kg under, but even then VOSA could say I was 25kg over.So while the rules say 0-10% I suspect that means a minimum of 1-10%.Anyway thanks for the infoMike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 Mike, I understand what you are saying, but there is no penalty for 0 to 10% so in effect VOSA are allowing a 10% error in the reading. They also l allow for the errors such as due to envionmental errors so there will be an allowance made for the deviation due to other factors just as you have mentioned with speeometers. As to rain water, this is down to the driver to make sure he has allowed for. e.g. a lorry loaded with sand with no cover and it rains overnight.....thats his problem not Vosa's to allow for rain water etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike 202 Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 Brambles - 2010-06-12 9:06 AM Mike, I understand what you are saying, but there is no penalty for 0 to 10% so in effect VOSA are allowing a 10% error in the reading. They also l allow for the errors such as due to envionmental errors so there will be an allowance made for the deviation due to other factors just as you have mentioned with speeometers. [ Quote] Brambles, the original post quoted 0-10% attracted a fixed penalty fine of £60. So who is right??. I hope that you are Regards Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wooly Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 Hi, After 15 years in haulage (now out of it) 2%-3% is the maximum you can expect to get away with a slap on the wrist. This is basically 1% error on the weighbridge that you check weighed on, 1% on the VOSA nominated weighbridge and maybe 1% good will, after that you will have to argue and plead like hell. Lorries are expected to take into account changing fuel loads and wet and dry conditions which can make a huge difference.Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 Mike, scrub my post, never read it right. aplologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 I always thought the allowance was 3% that is 105 kg on a 3500kg van....As I said earlier 10% and and extra 350kg cannot be right! If that was the case no one would worry or bother......would go around overloaded all the time? if the worse you could expect is a £60 fine if and when pulled :-S in France fines are MUCH higher as well, and you will not be allowed to proceed if overweight *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo3090 Posted June 12, 2010 Author Share Posted June 12, 2010 Dawki, that's right, it is then YOUR responsibility to remove anything that takes you over the weight limit, and to remove it from their premises at your cost. Now that could be as simple as dropping some water from the tank, but it could also be as serious as unloading several cases of wine or beer :'( , your bikes off the back :-S or a passenger or two :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 For chapter and verse - literally - go here and download especially the "VOSA enforcement sanctions policy". It is a little more complicated than Tomo's info sheet seems to have implied, with enforcement notices, or possibly prohibition notices, being issued, and individual axle weights being taken into account. The shorthand is, you don't just get to pay the on the spot penalty and continue grumpily on your way - oh no!On a quick squint, it seems the fines can be cumulative where both axles are overweight, which would result in a huge overload against MAM, unless you've had one of those "desk" style re-plating exercise carried out, of course, where the new MAM is merely the sum of the two axle maxima.Anyhow, loads there to keep you entertained for hours! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 Sorry, link went AWOL! Follow link below, then scroll to Section 10.http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/Transport_files/8002_VOSA_Enforcement_Sanctions_Policy_0909.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Collings Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 Severe cases of torsionaly stressed underwear can be avoided by the use of Brian's link to VOSA. Find overloading and read the Guidance Notes regarding non commercial drivers If stopped and marginally overweight, tug forlock and plead ignorance. Failing the attitude test tends to lead to a court appearance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kontiki Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 I can't see how temperature would greatly influence the weight of a vehicle :-S As to the rest about rain etc. that must be your responsibility, the extra weight of any rain becomes part of the overall weight. It was an annoying point when we were looking at buying a new van that salesmen would skip over the payload bit. One even saying that most vans were overladen & it wasn't anything to worry about 8-) it wasn't for him as he wouldn't have to pay the fine. It's about time the law was changed as the 3500kg limit is inadequate for most vans to have a decent payload. Not having been stopped for a weight check I would think you would have to be over by a reasonable margin to be fined. Like speed cameras etc. there is a built in allowance to take into account calibration errors (or there should be) . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike 202 Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 Brilliant brian,Reading it now while the wife makes me a nice bacon sandwich. Seems that up to 5% private motorists get a Verbal warning (VW), so although I will weigh everything and have had the factory weigh my motorhome empty (as ex-works) as a baseline, Your/VOSA data does give this old worrier a bit of peace on mind. Thanks Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wills Wagon Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 Can I reiterate my thanks to Brian as well. We are a bit tight on payload and I was very concerned about getting caught and what would happen. We had a spare 100Kg last time we used the weighbridge so if we are jsut bit over because of say a full fuel tank then at least I won't be fined. Many thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallii Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 Well, I am going to be smug, I bought a Transit based motorhome and went and had it weighed at the local weighbridge, everything on board including a full water tank and the bikes. I still had over 500 Kgs spare and neither axle was near it's limits. How many bottles of wine is 500Kgs? Hallii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 hallii - 2010-06-20 2:36 PM Well, I am going to be smug, I bought a Transit based motorhome and went and had it weighed at the local weighbridge, everything on board including a full water tank and the bikes. I still had over 500 Kgs spare and neither axle was near it's limits. How many bottles of wine is 500Kgs? Hallii another great thing about the transit, the standard rear axle is 2250kg whereas Fiat only 2000kg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magbrin Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 JudgeMental - 2010-06-20 3:07 PM hallii - 2010-06-20 2:36 PM Well, I am going to be smug, I bought a Transit based motorhome and went and had it weighed at the local weighbridge, everything on board including a full water tank and the bikes. I still had over 500 Kgs spare and neither axle was near it's limits. How many bottles of wine is 500Kgs? Hallii another great thing about the transit, the standard rear axle is 2250kg whereas Fiat only 2000kg A case of wine - including cardboard weighs 14.4kg - I'll let you work it out, and without the box - even more :D :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W3526602 Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 Hi, I bought a copy of Blackstones Traffic Law, from Ebay - this book is aimed at policemen swatting for their exams, but interesting reading when there is nothing on TV. It mentions that vehicles maybe slightly overweight, if that weight was gained during the journey. Wet tarpaulin? Sorry, I can't remember the percentage, possibly 5%, but I can look it up if anybody is interested. Note that this is weight gained DURING the journey, not due to parking overnight in the rain. You do not commit an offence by driving an overweight vehicle to the NEAREST weighbridge, but can be compelled to park somewhere safe, and unload. I wonder what would happen if your passenger alighted from the vehicle, prior to check-weighing, and refused to get back in? 602 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebishbus Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 Hi all. Tell me am I missing something here. I keep reading about the dangers and problems with overweight MH's on one hand, and then on the other, about replating up or down,over at least different weights, without altering the vehicle. Does this mean that the vehicles are not dangerousley overloaded anyway, but it's just a paper exercise for VED purposes. If there is a difference,(excluding the addition of an extra axle) to any vehicles when they leave the factory, is it stronger axle's, stronger springs, or better brakes. If just springs then surely spring assisters or added air suspension would increase your safety limit anyway. ?. Brian B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike 202 Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 It does not matter what the vehicle is capable of carrying, my Ford axles add up to 4000kg, but it has been plated to 3500kg. that makes it a PLG private light goods, over that and you become PHG private heavy goods with restrictions both here in the UK and in Europe. Here at 70 you need a medical for PHG and not PLG. In Europe there are different M-way taxes and speed limits to contend with. So a paperwork excercise to declare that your vehicle is safe to a higher level is normally all that is required. I could solve my motorhomes lack of load capacity by replating to 3850, but I am not prepared to accept the consequential limitations. Also although my vehicle would be safe to drive at 3850kg, VOSA and my insurance company would take a dim view of the situation if I left the plate at 3500kg. All of those in authority can only take the plated weight as being the limit, they cannot take a roadside guess/calculation and send you on your merry way. If they did then you could probably sue them if you had their consent to continue to travel and then had an accident. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebishbus Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 Hi Mike . This is just the point I was trying to establish, if the vehicles were in fact not dangerous and unsafe to drive, but just did not comply with the paperwork Brian B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 W3526602 - 2010-06-21 6:08 AM ............I wonder what would happen if your passenger alighted from the vehicle, prior to check-weighing, and refused to get back in? 602 They'd have to walk home!! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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