Problems with Weight

[Ed Mullins]

In 2008 I purchased a brand new Sunlight A69. At the time of purchase I understood that the vehicle had a gross weight of 3500kg, and it is registered via the log book as having a revenue weight of 3500kg. However, following a recent Caravan Club article I had a closer look at the plates (including the conveters plate "Stufe 2") affixed by Capron GmBh, which states the vehicle has a gross weight of 3850kg. I have attached a picture of the Stufe 2 plate.

 

Advice please.

[colin]

What advice do you want?

 

I'm not overly familier with this model, but had thought they where suposed to be 3850kg, has yours been downrated? possibly so. Do you want it replated to 3850?

Have you weight it? if so you may find at 3500kg there is little payload and you may wish to replate it.

[Guest JudgeMental]

I read It that Ed wanted a 3500kg van and thinks he has a 3850kg one.....

 

if it is the 6 berth dethleff, I would think you would need to be 3850kg to be anywhere near practical.

 

if your licence is only 3500kg that is a different matter!

 

This may be of help:

 

http://www.dethleffsowners.co.uk/sunlightandeurostylepage_150.php

[Clive]

Your van is technically capable of a total mass of 3850KG, however it has been registered in the UK with a lower figue of 3500KG to make it attractive to a wider public because of our license regulations. Even if your license allows you to drive a heavier vehicle you will be prosecuted if you are stopped and your mass is over 3500KG. If your license allows you to drive the heavier vehicle get the log book changed to 3850 revenue weight to become legal and also have a lower annual tax.

 

C.

 

[Andy_C]

Clive - 2010-06-24 4:25 PM

 

Your van is technically capable of a total mass of 3850KG, however it has been registered in the UK with a lower figue of 3500KG to make it attractive to a wider public because of our license regulations. Even if your license allows you to drive a heavier vehicle you will be prosecuted if you are stopped and your mass is over 3500KG. If your license allows you to drive the heavier vehicle get the log book changed to 3850 revenue weight to become legal and also have a lower annual tax.

 

C.

The OP stated that the converters plate showed 3850kg, this is the figure that a VOSA inspector would regard as the GVW, if subject to a roadside weight check.

 

It is also the figure that would be taken into account for the purpose of determining the applicable speed limits.

 

If a 3500kg GVW is actually required it would be necessary to get a replacement converters plate, showing that figure, fitted to the motorhome.

 

If however 3850kg is acceptable then it would, as Clive says, be a good idea to get the V5C changed to show the correct revenue weight and benefit from the lower PHGV road tax.

 

Andy

[Brian Kirby]

From a Dethleffs 2008 Sunlight brochure, this is a 6.9 metre, 6 berth van, with a basic (i.e. cheapest version, no options fitted) "mass in running order" (which Dethleffs did not further qualify) of 3010kg.  The standard chassis was 3,500 kg, with an option to upgrade to 3,850kg.

It seems yours has the upgraded chassis, which a van that size and capacity would need to be viable, but has been incorrectly registered with DVLA.  The correct category, as stated, will be PHGV, or PHG.  The tax is slightly lower.

If you passed your driving test before 1/1/97, you should have a licence to drive vehicles up to 7,500kg, unless restricted for medical reasons.  If you passed your test after that date, and for peace of mind in any case, it would be wise just to check what it says.

As well as getting the discrepancy sorted out with DVLA, make sure your insurer is advised immediately - don't wait for the new V5C to arrive, you are not driving the vehicle as insured!

I would also suggest you get the vehicle weighed when fully laden, as it is likely to have been running above 3,500kg if you have used its passenger carrying capacity.  This is only of relevance to the plated MAM, but would be wise to ensure it is within its limits.  When doing this, check the loads on the axles individually: due to the length of the van, the rear axle will be especially vulnerable.

If your licence does not permit you to drive vehicles heavier than 3,500kg you have, in essence, two options.  Take the HGV test, or have the vehicle re-plated to 3,500kg, to match its V5C category.  However, if you do this, I think you'll find it a very difficult vehicle to use, except as an unaccompanied couple.

[Guest JudgeMental]

I dont think a HGV test required, just the yearly medical to drive over 3500kg?

[Brian Kirby]

Depends on when you passed your test.  If after 1/1/97, then your licence is only to drive up to 3,500kg MAM.  Heavier than that, and you need to take the further test to drive heavier vehicles.

[first5]

My motorhome is plated much the same. How do I get the log book changed to 3850kg. What are the costs and does it affect insurance / mot etc?

[Brian Kirby]

first5 - 2010-06-24 11:25 PM My motorhome is plated much the same. How do I get the log book changed to 3850kg. What are the costs and does it affect insurance / mot etc?

Sorry, but can we be totally clear?  You have a van that is plated, on the van, as 3,850kg, but your V5C says it is 3,500kg?

How you get the V5C corrected, is to follow the instructions in Part 4 of the Guidance notes that would have come with your V5C.  The notes includes instructions on how to do this by entering the correct data on part 7 of the V5C, and returning it to DVLA.  It is an A5 booklet, reference INS160, issued by DVLA.

So far as I know, if the vehicle has been correctly described as a motor caravan, the requirement for MoT testing is unchanged.  If I am wrong on this, I shall soon be corrected!  :-)

Immediate notification to your insurers is essential.  You will have declared the vehicle as having 3,500kg MAM so, if it is actually 3,850kg, it is not the vehicle your insurance contract is based upon.  Were you to have an accident now, having admitted that you are aware of the error, you could be in a "bitta bother"!  There may be a premium adjustment, but probably not, but it is important to make sure the revised details are recorded on the policy schedule, and that they send you a copy.  You would not want, at some hopefully never to arrive future date, to be confronted with an insurer saying he has no record of that change, but because the vehicle is heavier than you declared, your insurance is invalid.  Whatever you do about the V5C, do not let this bit grow hair!!  :-)

[Ed Mullins]

Clive,

 

Thanks for that. I have the C1e on my license so I will just re-register it. Have you heard about any forthcoming changes to the rules regarding the 7.5 tonne limit for drivers who automatically had this group on their license?

 

 

[Tony Jones]

Watch out if you need to send your licence away (eg change of address). A while ago DVLA had a nasty habit of dropping people's "grandfather rights" off replacement licences, and I've not heard that they're any more reliable now.

If that happens, there's no official record that you ever had the extra categories, so the advice then was to keep a photocopy AND enclose a letter with the licence, listing exactly what it covers.

[Ed Mullins]

Clive,

 

I'm sorry I didn't reply to your exact question earlier. I have two plates on the motorhome. The original Ford plate which states B: 3,500 kg, R: 6,000 kg and then 1,750 kg and 2,600 kg in that order. At the side of this plate I have the Capron GmBh (vehicle converters) plate which states: 3,850 kg; 5,750 kg and then 1- 1,750 kg and 2- 2,600 kg, in that order. I can send you photos of the plates if you wish. The vehicle Registration Cert states Motor Caravan, Private Light Goods, 3500 Kg Gross.

 

According to my understanding the Vehicle Converters Plate takes precident over the Base Vehicle Manufacturers plate. Therefore, the Gross Weight should have been registered as 3,850 kg.

 

If you wish to see the actual plates please email me on tmullins@tiscali.co.uk

[Ed Mullins]

Thanks Tony,

 

I remember when the world was efficient.

[Ed Mullins]

Brian,

 

I'm sorry about this but all the messages I've addressed to Clive are actually for your information as well.

[Ed Mullins]

Did you by any chance buy it from a firm in Shropshire in March 08?

[Brian Kirby]

Ed Mullins - 2010-06-25 10:11 AM Brian, I'm sorry about this but all the messages I've addressed to Clive are actually for your information as well.

That's fine, no apologies needed.  You are correct that the converter's plate takes precedence.  You still have a respectable overall margin, i.e. 2,600 + 1750 = 4,350, and yours is plated to 3,850, so it appears there is no error.  Just send the V5C to DVLA with section amended, as suggested above, for the PLG to be changed to PHGV, and the appropriate MAM corrected.  Your reward will be lower VED.  Win, win!  :-)  Don't forget the insurer, though!

[Ed Mullins]

Thanks Brian,

 

Bit worried about the fact that I am a recovering heart attack victim (and awaiting a by-pass) Doc says it's OK to drive at the present but I'll have to run the 3850 kg past him. Lifes unravelling a bit at the moment but if I can put this to bed then at least I can stop worrying.

 

PS to the dealer who tried to keep the over 3,500 kg hidden. Thanks a bunch!

[Brian Kirby]

Ed, your van is now classed as a medium sized vehicle, i.e. MAM between 3.5 and 7.5 tonnes.  If you have a pacemaker/defibrillator fitted you must notify DVLA whatever you will be driving.  Having had a heart attack, and now awaiting surgery, you will have to notify DVLA in respect of driving the van, though not your car.  Bad news I'm afraid, and doubtless not what you want to hear at present.

I think it may be wise to check your insurance as well, in case they have separate notification requirements.  You would in any case have to advise them of any medical condition of which you were required to notify DVLA.

If you had the van plated down to 3.5 tonnes MAM, so far as I can see you would not need to notify DVLA of the heart condition - but it would be wise to check as I'm quoting 2007 information.  The main question then, would be whether the van is viable with that MAM.

I hope that your operation is soon, is a great success, and that you make a speedy recovery to full operating status.

[Ed Mullins]

To Brian and all who've given advice.

 

Insurance company notified and logbook going of on Monday with amendment to 3,850 kg

 

To be honest, which the dealer wasn't, even if I have to get rid of the van I can't sell it without ensuring that the logbook is correct.

 

Thank you all for your advice and help.

 

 

[Mel B]

Hi Ed and welcome to the nut house :-D

 

Just one other thing you need to be aware of with being now officially at the 3850kg weight - your vehicle breakdown/recovery may have different 'rules' for vehicles over 3500kg so you need to check it out too.

 

When we looked into it for our previous motorhome which we were contemplating uprating from 3500kg to 3950kg, we found that the recover conditions changed when in Europe (no hire car, no free hotel etc) as it then fell into the 'commercial' category. As we didn't do the uprating and changed the motorhome instead, we didn't bother to explore the implications for the UK but better to check now and be sure of what you are covered for just in case.

 

Hope everything goes okay for you. :-)

[Brian Kirby]

And another thing!  http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/images/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

If the unladen weight exceeds 3,050kg, which it just may, you will be subject to lower speed limits in UK, and as the van is over 3,500kg MAM, it will be subject to lower speed limits throughout most of mainland Europe - including on German autobahnen, which may come as a surprise.

[Ed Mullins]

Hi Mel B

 

I've checked that one out already. UK is unchanged but I do lose the replacement vehicle and accomodation cover when in Europe.

 

Thanks though, as it is nice to know we are all rooting for one another.

 

Ed

[Ed Mullins]

Thanks Brian,

 

I will be looking into the speed limits when I get out and about again.

 

Also, I've rung Lazy Days this morning, and I've been asked to send a copy of the log book and photos of the plates, so they can investigate where it all went wrong.

 

I've been amazed that while I've been trying to sort this, that some dealers seem to have a very cavalier attitude regarding the MAM. It is as if it doesn't really matter, and a long as the vehicle is displaying a road fund licence everything OK.

 

Ed