waste water

[Tomo3090]

I take the point about the asthetics of it, and I don't do it myself because of that reason alone, but I don't get too upset when I see others doing it, whether accidental or not.

 

As for the points made by Brambles. Well, I mean, have you ever seen the crap coming from your vans' exhaust pipe? That does more damage to the air we breathe than any waste water droplets. As for the spreading of germs as I drive, I did actually smile at that one, until I realised you weren't kidding!

 

I take it you don't live near any coal, gas or oil power stations then? Take a look at the steam and discharges from some of the factories and power stations as you drive along. Have you ever travelled by train and used the loo? They discharge them directly onto the tracks as they wizz along. Remember "Don't use the toilet while the train is in the station"? That's why.

 

Aircraft too discharge not only exhaust gasses but waste water into the high atmosphere. Do you walk around wearing a face mask?

 

We live in a highly industrialised 21st century country, indeed World, and there is no end of waste water droplets in the atmosphere, as well as chemical discharges from industry. You're seriously not trying to tell me you get worried by the possibility of getting germs on you from my washing up water?

[Brambles]

I have stated what is factual. Germs breed in your waste tank at an alarming rate, if these germs in the water get deposited on the road and sprayed into the air then others can breath them in.

Exactly the same as polluttants from other sources.

Please do not insult my intelligence and what is a fruitless argument to support dumping waste water as you drive.

[Brambles]

"As for the points made by Brambles. Well, I mean, have you ever seen the crap coming from your vans' exhaust pipe? That does more damage to the air we breathe than any waste water droplets. As for the spreading of germs as I drive, I did actually smile at that one, until I realised you weren't kidding! "

 

 

What crap? Modern engines are surpisingly clean burning and engine manufactureres have spend millions developing clean burning engines because of the risk to health. We have catalytic convertors, particulate filters and a massive move to reducing polution from exhausts in towns all because it is not good for health. Why add to it with other forms of polution.

 

It has even been shown now that windscreen bottles containing only water can be the source of legionaires desease by being sprayed and breathed in by following drivers. It has taken a long time for this to be realised as a source of increased and unusual isolated cases of legionaires. Eveyone should use wash additive which keeps the wash water safer in the higher temperatures under the bonnet. Why do you think many manufactures now place the bottle under the front wing where heat from the engine will not affect it, one reason is it reduces the risk of bacteria and germs multipying with increased temperatures. It is not just because it is a convenient location.

[Brambles]

"You're seriously not trying to tell me you get worried by the possibility of getting germs on you from my washing up water?"

 

 

Yes I am if it has been stored in your grey water tank 1st. Would you be willing to spray some of your waste water from your tank in the air and breath it in? Poring dish water from your washing up bowl is completely different, we are talking water stored in a tank , for an unknown time mixing with whatever else is breeding in the tank.

[Brambles]

"Aircraft too discharge not only exhaust gasses but waste water into the high atmosphere. Do you walk around wearing a face mask? "

 

Aircraft are no longer allowed to discharge contaminated water into the air, contaminated water has to go in a holding tank.

 

[AliB]

I'm not worried about catching a few bugs as ones body defences can usually cope.

 

But Legionnaires disease is often fatal.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1286423/Windscreen-water-cause-cases-potentially-fatal-Legionnaires-disease.html

 

An internet search will throw up lots more information.

[Guest Tracker]

It's always good to know that Mr Paranoia is still alive and kicking!

 

Shame he didn't get abolished when Mr Common Sense got executed along with Mr Responsility and Mr Consideration!

[Mel B]

Brian Kirby - 2010-07-01 3:26 PM

Tomo3090 - 2010-07-01 12:18 PM Or jet wash your drive if it slopes towards the street, or let the kids play with water squirters near a road! Of course all those motorcyclists accelerating away from traffic lights, road junctions, overtaking on or near bends and bits of kids doing wheelies are not in anyway affecting other road users. I'm yet to be convinced that the small amount of water draining off a partially opened waste valve for a half mile or so constitutes a higher risk to motorcyclists than the amount of debris on the roads anyway. It certainly doesn't affect the environment in any way.

Truth to be told, I don't think an increased risk to cyclists, motorised or other, is the disadvantage, because a sensibly ridden example of either should not lose adhesion on even soapy water - even assuming they can't avoid it.

Brian - have you ever ridden a motorcycle, and especially recently? There are enough flipping obstacles in the road already - junk/debris, pot holes, ridges where the council couldn't be botehred to do a proper resurfacing job, then there's the other idiots out that who, if you were paranoid, you'd think they were out to kill you. It's one thing to come across an odd patch of water but when it's on the road for mile upon mile that's another matter (half a mile's journey would NOT empty a full waste tank on dribble mode - it certainly didn't with the 'van we were following and it wasn't on a little dribble either). Quite apart form the rist of skidding on it, it's bl**dy disgusting to get sprayed with the stuff as you travel and the wheels will kick it up if you go over it which at some point you will more than likely have to. How well you ride a bike is irrelevant - if it's got grease/oil etc in it there is a chance you will go flying, the same way that if you are riding a bike properly and hit a patch of black ice there's a darn good chance that you'll come a cropper! Surely reducing this risk is a good enough reason for NOT doing it?

Brian Kirby - 2010-07-01 3:26 PMThe real disadvantage, IMV, is the impression Joe Public gets of motorhomers, because so many seem to think the waste is coming from the toilet - and would still be unhappy even if they knew its actual source. If we don't want public hostility to motorhomes to result in restrictions, we should not foul our own nest. There can be no excuse, there are grey waste disposal facilities at all proper stopover sites, so why not use them?

Totally agree with you on this point.

[vindiboy]

Mel B - 2010-06-30 9:13 PM

 

vindiboy - 2010-06-30 8:07 PM

 

Get an old bucket, drill lots of holes in the bottom, fill the bucket with grass, place bucket under the waste outlet of your van, open the valve and let the water from your shower and sinks trickle into the bucket, the grass will collect grease etc, and filtered water will soak into the ground, dispose of the dirty grass in to a hedge or waste bin SIMPLES. :-o :-o :-o :-o

 

NOT a good idea ... I don't think they'd appreciate you digging up their grass pitches! 8-) Plus if the ground isn't free draining the pitch could get very soggy, not just for you but the next occupier. *-)

Who said anything about digging up pitches, let me make it simple for YOU, you get the grass from around the edge of the field or site where it will probably be a foot high. 8-) 8-) 8-)

[Mel B]

You don't HAVE to make it simple for me thanks, but I'll try to make it simple for you ;-) .... if everyone on the site did that the grass would soon get smaller, smaller, smaller ... and that's assuming it's the type of site which is a bit rougher round the edges ... I'd like to see you try it on a Caravan Club posh site! I don't think it would be just your bucket that had grass stuck in it! (lol)

 

Now, if I was on a site and got the pitch just after you'd vacated it I wouldn't be very happy if I ended up with a soggy patch because you had let your waste out on the pitch ... my dogs like to play and roll around on grass ... and what about someone with kids? Would it be lovely - no. Especially if your 'filtration' system doesn't work as well as you think it does ... makes me glad I rarely use sites.

[vindiboy]

I have also seen made up gadgets for waste water disposal, thus. a length of hose attached to the vans outlet going into a piece of 4inch plastic domestic waste pipe which is sealed one end, the other end has a screw off cap and the tube is drilled with lots of holes and again filled with grass this is pushed under the van and filters the waste water as it drains away again SIMPLES, can't be bothered with that though, I prefer my holey bucket, But I wouldn't use it on a proper campsite, only on farm fields when on rallies etc, for proper campsites which I rarely use anyway,I would have a non holed bucket ,catch the water in this and dump it in the drain provided or a suitable hedge. :-o :-o :-o

[vindiboy]

Mel B - 2010-07-01 5:58 PM

 

You don't HAVE to make it simple for me thanks, but I'll try to make it simple for you ;-) .... if everyone on the site did that the grass would soon get smaller, smaller, smaller ... and that's assuming it's the type of site which is a bit rougher round the edges ... I'd like to see you try it on a Caravan Club posh site! I don't think it would be just your bucket that had grass stuck in it! (lol)

 

Now, if I was on a site and got the pitch just after you'd vacated it I wouldn't be very happy if I ended up with a soggy patch because you had let your waste out on the pitch ... my dogs like to play and roll around on grass ... and what about someone with kids? Would it be lovely - no. Especially if your 'filtration' system doesn't work as well as you think it does ... makes me glad I rarely use sites.

Strange how I was typing another reply just as yours appears, I would never be on a Caravan Club Site in the first place, and I am glad you mentioned dogs as I absolutley loath to see dogs cocking their legs all over pitches for others to have to put up with the smells that produces, and what about kids you say, great for them to roll in your dogs P@@s isn't it,any way nuff said, that's what I do and always will.

[Mel B]

Ah, I see ... I had visions of the CC Commandant chasing after you with the infamous grass cutter!!! (LOL) *-) :D

[Mel B]

vindiboy - 2010-07-01 6:12 PM

Strange how I was typing another reply just as yours appears, I would never be on a Caravan Club Site in the first place, and I am glad you mentioned dogs as I absolutley loath to see dogs cocking their legs all over pitches for others to have to put up with the smells that produces, and what about kids you say, great for them to roll in your dogs P@@s isn't it,any way nuff said, that's what I do and always will.

 

Ditto .... I was replying as you were replying! :-S

 

We don't let our dogs spoil the pitches, we take the to the side well away from them or out for a walkies.

[crinklystarfish]

topfitter1 - 2010-06-29 8:18 PM/>

hi

as you may know i am new to this, is there somwhere on site to empty your waste water or do you wait untill you get home

ken & chris

Well, it seems that it doesn’t really matter, as no matter where it’s emptied you’ll either kill yourself with some hideous disease, someone else through hideous disease or road traffic incident, or at the very least turn everyone in the world against motorcaravanners. 

Probably best to leave it in the tank and buy a new motorhome when it’s full.  

Or just use common sense, as really, whichever method you employ, though there will always be some infinitesimally small risk of injurious result, none of them are terribly likely to make any tangible difference to anyone, or thing; ever.  

Rather than get into an ethical dilemma, you could just leave the drain open and let fate decide...

[Brian Kirby]

crinklystarfish - 2010-07-01 6:58 PM

Well, it seems that it doesn’t really matter, as no matter where it’s emptied you’ll either kill yourself with some hideous disease, someone else through hideous disease or road traffic incident, or at the very least turn everyone in the world against motorcaravanners. ..................

Now you're just being silly!  :-)  :-) 

'Cos the option you missed out is to dispose of it properly down the designated drain.  That, in our various ways, is what we have all been saying in response to Peter's mischievous advice to dump it down the road. 

Do that, which is simple, and oh so obvious, and none of your imagined horror scenarios arise, and even Mel will be able to stay upright, instead of worrying that the washing up will have been done using cooking oil instead of detergent!  :-D

[crinklystarfish]

I admit to the silliness Mr K: just trying to counter hysteria with humour. 

With serious face on, of course it’s best to drain down a designated drain if that’s possible. If it isn’t, and it rarely is for me (rough camping blah blah) then the only real impact of draining elsewhere is public perception. As you, and others, and indeed I myself on a previous post on this very subject have pointed out, no one in their right mind would want to bring our hobby into disrepute. 

The concept of unshipping motorcyclists whilst simultaneously infecting them with fatal spores is probably, ever so slightly, stretching the chain of causation. I hope none of the self-serving and power hungry of Brussels/>/> read this forum.

I cycled home from work yesterday and narrowly missed a puddle formed from the overflowing drain of a pizza shop: I consider myself very lucky to be alive. 

I can’t help it.  

If I could bring myself to use those little faces, I’d put a mischievous one, and a smiley one right here. I wish there was one for 'jeez, did I actually just read that' too. That'd be my favourite.

[pkc]

" I admit to the silliness Mr K: just trying to counter hysteria with humour"

Not allowed on here young man!

The obvious way to dispose of waste water is what I do,

Tip it down the van sink, I'm always amazed at the amount of waste water I generate.

Surly it's illegal to discharge onto a public road?

 

Regards, PKC.

[LordThornber]

Is it a criminal offence to empty your waste, (grey) water into a roadside drain (?)

 

Please, no diatribes about necessity, morality or anything else for that matter, I think it is a reasonable question.

 

Thankyou in advance

 

Martyn

[crinklystarfish]

Your lordship, that’s a tricky one that would keep Europhiles busy for hours. However, the short answer is, commercially yes, non-commercially no, not usually. With exceptions in both cases. 

I wouldn’t actually advocate draining a full tank straight into a gulley pot as, depending on the sewerage system in the area, some may not go to water treatment works, but straight to watercourses. Stuff with high biological oxygen demand – like milk for example – can devastate aquatic environments. Draining a motorhome waste tank into a public roadside drain is probably not illegal, but please don’t do it. 

Far better to drain gradually over soil or aggregate where the resultant impact is, to all intents and purposes, so negligible as to be immeasurable. That’s what I do; when nobody is watching. 

Actually, though I didn’t want to get into this originally, it’s arguably better to do the above than discharging into a ‘proper’ disposal point as in that case the waste is then shipped off to the water treatment plant where there is an environmental and economic price to pay to make it – combined with all the unmentionable waste – clean enough to return to watercouses. Volume is the key with that process, so the less you flush, the more the planet will love you. 

I also confess to having ‘discharged directly onto public roads’, but that was nothing to do with my ‘van or motorhoming.

[LordThornber]

crinklystarfish I also confess to having ‘discharged directly onto public roads’, but that was nothing to do with my ‘van or motorhoming.QUOTE]

 

Thanks for your response Crinkly, I confess to the above too, I seem to remember it involved support of a local brewery.

 

But seriously, if I understand you correctly, you are saying there is no clear definition of whether discharging your grey waste water into a roadside drain is a criminal offence.

 

Martyn

[Brian Kirby]

crinklystarfish - 2010-07-02 9:58 AM

I admit to the silliness Mr K: just trying to counter hysteria with humour. 

With serious face on, of course it’s best to drain down a designated drain if that’s possible. If it isn’t, and it rarely is for me (rough camping blah blah) then the only real impact of draining elsewhere is public perception. As you, and others, and indeed I myself on a previous post on this very subject have pointed out, no one in their right mind would want to bring our hobby into disrepute. 

The concept of unshipping motorcyclists whilst simultaneously infecting them with fatal spores is probably, ever so slightly, stretching the chain of causation. I hope none of the self-serving and power hungry of Brussels/>/> read this forum.

I cycled home from work yesterday and narrowly missed a puddle formed from the overflowing drain of a pizza shop: I consider myself very lucky to be alive. 

I can’t help it.  

If I could bring myself to use those little faces, I’d put a mischievous one, and a smiley one right here. I wish there was one for 'jeez, did I actually just read that' too. That'd be my favourite. 

Glad you took that in the spirit in which it was written!  :-D  Always a risk of misunderstanding - but it adds to the thrill!  I congratulate you on your lucky recent escape from serious injury, and wish you many more.  Now, where did I leave that common sense water, er beer?  :-)

[Brian Kirby]

LordThornber - 2010-07-02 12:12 PM

crinklystarfish I also confess to having ‘discharged directly onto public roads’, but that was nothing to do with my ‘van or motorhoming.

Thanks for your response Crinkly, I confess to the above too, I seem to remember it involved support of a local brewery. But seriously, if I understand you correctly, you are saying there is no clear definition of whether discharging your grey waste water into a roadside drain is a criminal offence. Martyn

On the first point, be careful what you choose for support!  Many years ago a friend of mine chose the local police station for support, discreetly and out of sight round the corner, of course.  Didn't stop one sharp eyed constable spotting him, and doing him for indecent exposure!  He stopped laughing when he remembered he was a teacher, and thought about the possible consequences of having that on his record!  http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/images/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

On the second point, I think crinkly gives a textbook reply.  If you are satisfied the drain does not discharge direct to a soakaway, or watercourse, but is connected to main drainage, it would not be an offence, otherwise it would - not because the act is of itself an offence, but because of the nature of what you are discharging. 

In either case, were you to discharge the contents of your fresh water tank down a roadside drain, you would not commit an offence, because it is clean water.  It ain't the drain that is the problem, or even what you put into it (within reason, for example dumping oil is an offence), it is the potential environmental consequences of the discharge that may constitute the offence.  There is also a potential issue with discharging the waste on to open land, which is possible contamination of ground water sources.  Only likely to be an issue if the source is being tapped for consumption - not very likely in most of the UK, but could be problematic in remoter parts of mainland Europe.

We can all buy these toys, but if we cherish the freedom they allow us we have to use them responsibly, and with great discretion and forethought.  Apologies for sermonising!  http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/images/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[crinklystarfish]

That's about the size of it Brian.

The legal position is a nightmare constructed of layers of domestic legislation and enactments from European directives. I worked for the Environment Agency for a bit, but that was years ago and I expect there have been further changes in that time. Basically though, if the drain goes to the sewers, and not directly to watercourse, there is zero likelihood of a private individual being prosecuted for discharging the contents of a motorhome waste tank into it. In fact, if anyone gets done for it, I’ll pay their fine. 

BUT, if you discharge anything into a watercourse that ‘pollutes’ (practicably measured by fish kill or the cultivation of sewage fungus) then you’re on your own! 

Just to give this some perspective, grey water from boats discharges straight into the canal / river, and nobody raises an eyebrow.

[LordThornber]

Quality responses chaps and thankyou.

 

Martyn