waste water

[Brambles]

http://www.thegreenblue.org.uk/boat_users/sewage_and_waste.aspx

extract ....

 

Grey Water

Grey water discharge from sinks, showers and washing machines can be very damaging to sensitive aquatic life. Most washing detergents contain phosphates which encourage rapid algal growth and eventual oxygen depletion when the algae die and start to break down. This eutrophic effect can cause fish and other aquatic life to suffocate.

 

Added to this, the degreasers found in washing up liquids and soaps strip the natural oils from fish gills making it difficult for them to breathe.

 

On the inland waterways, it is a requirement under British Waterways licences that only phosphate free detergents may be used.

 

 

[747]

My first thought on the matter of discharging down a roadside drain is how on earth would you know where it finished up?

 

So, the only answer is not to do it in the first place.

 

Just recently, we spent some time on C&CC Temporary Holiday Sites in the South and South West of England. There was fresh water and Elsan disposal available and when I enquired about grey water, I was told to chuck it in the hedge.

I also came across a caravanner with a grass filled tube to filter his grey water and I found it to be a good bit of kit. He was, however, a design engineer in a filtration company.

 

This morning, on the way back from a short trip in Northumberland, A motorhome pulled out of the site at Seaton Sluice (CC I think) and guess what?, there was a trail of water coming from his grey water drain which is piped to the back of his van and plain to see.

 

Why oh why do some m/homers shoot themselves (and everyone else) in the foot with this abject laziness and stupidity. He had been on a site for gawds sake, with all amenities.

 

 

[Guest pelmetman]

Blimey 8-)

 

Week before last picked the mother inlaw up and stayed for a few days on the Morton in the Marsh site, and whilst there went to empty the grey water tank.

Opened the tap and nothing came out (!) So unscrewed the tap nothing (!)

 

In the end I put the hose that you use to rinse the drain with up the pipe turned it on full blast and it cleared the blockage :-S

 

Now after reading some of these posts and bearing in mind we must of had the water in the tank festering for a month in a 20 year old tank (!) perhaps I have caused a biological incident in the Cotswolds :$

[Colin Leake]

It's worth bearing in mind that if you drive off with a full waste tank the dirty water may well come back up the drain hole in the shower. We usually only stay for three nights at a time so the tank copes until we leave at which time we empty it down the designated point. On the only occasion this was impossible we stopped at a service point, found a surface water drain and used that.

[Guest Tracker]

Many shower wastes will take a sink plug Colin - that's what we use to prevent nasty niffs from backing up the waste pipe!

[fjmike]

Hmmm I'm on the horns of a dilemma here after reading all the above posts. I always drain my grey water tank before leaving a site, when on a commercial site it will be in the place provided and when on a DA meet it will be in the hedge. My problem is that the twonk that designed my van put the exit pipe for the grey water nowhere near the bottom of the tank. To get over this I have always after draining left the tap open so that by the time I am home gravity has done the job for me. Now before I get hung drawn and quartered by the motorcyclists on here I have ridden bikes for more years than I care to remember both UK and Europe. A little waste water has never been a problem (never been a fair weather rider), but obviously I am upsetting some peeps so how do I get round this problem of getting the last couple of pints out of the tank??

[747]

Hi Mike,

 

You are not upsetting anyone by allowing the dregs to work their way out of your tank. I have done the same as it is not my fault that most motorhomes suffer from the same design flaw.

 

There is a world of difference between a few dribbles and a waste pipe gushing full bore. My conscience is a bit clearer when it is chucking it down with rain and nobody can see anything.

 

I believe that my m/home holds 100litres in the waste tank (maybe more). That would be a fair old pong if it was dropped in the one spot. Recently I was in the position of having to drive with it full and the m/home honked to high heaven on the windy Welsh roads. The temptation was there to just dump it quietly but I would have been a hypocrite to do so.

 

When I finally got rid of it properly I called into a supermarket and did two things. I firstly poured fresh water into the basins and shower tray to purge the stinky stuff with fresh water. Secondly I popped into the supermarket and bought a drain plug for the shower, as mentioned earlier by tracker. The shower tray is the low spot in the drainage system and is vulnerable.

 

So you carry on dribbling. :D

[vindiboy]

Howabout this for an aside, my friend has a Narrow Boat on the English Canals and I spent some time on it with him and learned that ALL waste water from Narrow Boats is discharged directly into the Canal. Toilet waste goes into a Cassette or holding tank, so how does that gel with all the crap about a little waste water from a Motorhome polluting the rivers, how many boats are on the canals / Rivers I wonder?? *-) *-) *-)

[Guest pelmetman]

So the smell was coming from the tank (^) and me and er in doors have been blaming each other for years (lol) (lol) (lol)

[Blizzard]

I agree with many on here that draining your waste while travelling should not be done.

 

I am however, surprised no one has mentioned whether it is legal or not.

 

IMO there is sufficient legislation in place that makes the practice illegal and could, in certain circumstances, give our boys & girls in blue the power to prosecute.

 

If there's the slightest chance of that, I for one don't want to give them the slightest excuse.

 

 

Ken.

[Brian Kirby]

vindiboy - 2010-07-03 9:05 PM Howabout this for an aside, my friend has a Narrow Boat on the English Canals and I spent some time on it with him and learned that ALL waste water from Narrow Boats is discharged directly into the Canal. Toilet waste goes into a Cassette or holding tank, so how does that gel with all the crap about a little waste water from a Motorhome polluting the rivers, how many boats are on the canals / Rivers I wonder?? *-) *-) *-)

I think you miss several things.  First the water in canals flows, albeit slowly, so the waste does not hang in one place.  Second, the waste discharges are little and often, so are dispersed even more. Third, the small discharge is into a huge body of water that greatly dilutes it.  Fourth, motorhomes tend to congregate, so their discharges tend to be concentrated.  Fifth, their discharge, if not to drains, goes onto land which, unlike canal water, does not carry it away from the discharge point.  Sixth, the land does not dilute the discharge, though subsequent rain may, the discharge just sinks down, to be joined by further discharges over time.  If the concentration is not excessive this will generally be filtered harmlessly, if excessive, it will become a stinking, nitrate rich, wet, bog.

I'm afraid linking the discharge from boats to rivers or canals, to that of discharging from motorhomes onto land, is a prime example of desire-led chop-logic.  Apples and pears.

One motorhome discharging its grey waste down the edge of a field as it drives away will harm no-one and nothing.  Consistent dumping of motorhome, or caravan for that matter, grey waste onto a pitch on a campsite results in a soggy, smelly, patch, on that pitch, littered with particles of food waste.  I know this from personal experience!  Between these extremes there are many shades of grey, with an equal number of shades of desirability.  Honesty, consideration for those who came next, and common sense, should be the guide, with a strong preference for disposing of the waste to a proper drain as the first priority.  Why is this difficult to understand?

[Philjp]

I always empty my waste before leaving sites. (Less weight more mph).We have a cleaning service that comes around the streets offering to wash out and clean our wheelie bins. They used to discharge the waste water into a drain in the street. I have noticed lately they have discontinued this process and now tip the waste water into a tank they carry. I asked why they no longer tipped the waste into the drain they stated that they had been warned that they would be prosecuted if they continued to pollute. I raised the question with my council environmental dept as I have a drain out side my house and asked would there be a problem if I emptied my motor home waste into the drain (explaining it was not toilet waste). They advised me that if they had a complaint and my vehicle reg was supplied that they would report me for prosecution for polluting. Luckily I have a Sewer drain cover on my drive which would be used if required. But as stated I always empty my tank regularly whilst on sites it keeps the smells away and also I have paid for the waste deposit in my site fees

[Blizzard]

Philjp - 2010-07-04 3:07 PM

 

I always empty my waste before leaving sites. (Less weight more mph).

 

 

Did you not mean MPG :-D

 

 

Could be wrong, but I believe that a "business" is not regarded the same as a "private individual" when it comes to disposal of waste,

 

 

Ken.

[Guest peter]

Tracker - 2010-07-01 1:14 PM

 

It is hard enough already getting local authorities to accept and provide parking for motorhomes.

Spreading a trail of water be it waste or fresh as you drive along is hardly conducive to improving the image of motor caravanners in general after the damage done by the so called travellers of past years.

Whether or not it is dangerous to other road users is not the issue - it simply looks awful to anyone following as they don't know what it is - it could even be toilet watse as far as the unfamiliar are concerned?

 

So please don't do it - thanks.

Bog off! bossy boots. If I knew you were following I would ensure it was my toilet water. :D

[Guest peter]

Brambles - 2010-07-01 1:50 PM

 

Have any of you any idea how dangerous the action of emtying tanks as you drive a long the street is?

Your grey tank arbours all sorts of bacteria, germs and micro-organisms, and potentially legionaires decease as well. When you empty this on the road following cars can spray this into the air and the germs and bacteria beome airborne to be breathed in by following traffic or pedestrians. My god you could be reponsible for the spread of all sorts of deceases and bacteria into peoples lungs.

Am I overeacting, no I am bloddy not. It is a definite no no to dump loose water from a grey tank on the road. Even the sun shining on it to dry quickly causes water vapour and fine droplets carrying the contents of you tank for others to inhale and digest. Would you yourself be happy to breath in the contents of your tank...think about the consequences of your actions with spreading danerous bacteria and do you still want to be responsible for the possible spread of dangerous life threatening bacteria and possible death of others or at the least making them ill.

Calm down Brambles. You're getting your fingers in a twist, looking at the typo's. I was only joking in the first place, by suggesting dumping along the road. But it seems from subsequent posts , that it is O/K.

[Guest peter]

Brian Kirby - 2010-07-01 11:12 PM

crinklystarfish - 2010-07-01 6:58 PM

Well, it seems that it doesn’t really matter, as no matter where it’s emptied you’ll either kill yourself with some hideous disease, someone else through hideous disease or road traffic incident, or at the very least turn everyone in the world against motorcaravanners. ..................

Now you're just being silly!  :-)  :-) 

'Cos the option you missed out is to dispose of it properly down the designated drain.  That, in our various ways, is what we have all been saying in response to Peter's mischievous advice to dump it down the road. 

Do that, which is simple, and oh so obvious, and none of your imagined horror scenarios arise, and even Mel will be able to stay upright, instead of worrying that the washing up will have been done using cooking oil instead of detergent!  :-D

Well said Brian. That last bit made me laugh my head off. You have a wicked sense of humour. Personally, We always use Virgin Olive Oil to wash up with. It spreads more evenly across the road when you dump it. :D

[flicka]

peter 2010-07-04 10:57 PM

 

-----

If you see this person posting after 10PM notify a Mod'. He may be drunk.

 

 

 

Hi Moderator Peter has obviously been for a walk to the pub & staggered back

 

(lol) (lol)

[Guest peter]

crinklystarfish - 2010-07-02 1:45 PM

That's about the size of it Brian.

The legal position is a nightmare constructed of layers of domestic legislation and enactments from European directives. I worked for the Environment Agency for a bit, but that was years ago and I expect there have been further changes in that time. Basically though, if the drain goes to the sewers, and not directly to watercourse, there is zero likelihood of a private individual being prosecuted for discharging the contents of a motorhome waste tank into it. In fact, if anyone gets done for it, I’ll pay their fine. 

BUT, if you discharge anything into a watercourse that ‘pollutes’ (practicably measured by fish kill or the cultivation of sewage fungus) then you’re on your own! 

Just to give this some perspective, grey water from boats discharges straight into the canal / river, and nobody raises an eyebrow.

That includes the contents of the Toilet as well on most Rivers.

[crinklystarfish]

I lived on the waterways for 4 years and never came across anyone who would dump their lavvy straight into the cut. I did, though, once see a bloke float a paper bag away from his boat most mornings and wondered if it was some kind of deeply cultural ritual akin to far-eastern funeral celebrations.

It dawned on me several months later what little surprises the bags held.

Regarding legality of dumping grey water onto a public road, I personally know of no specific criminal legislation that would cover such an occurrence.

However, in some cases it could be deemed due care / inconsiderate driving if, for example, a full 100 litres was unleashed at 60mph to the detriment of any other road user. It'd have to be pretty spectacular to warrant a prosecution though, I'd imagine there'd have to be some significant consequence to get it through the CPS.

You could also be open to a civil case of negligence if your 100-litres-at-60mph actions caused injury.

As usual with the law, there's little prospect of getting done, but it's not impossible.

I'd suggest though that a dregs-of-the-tank dribble onto a public highway is neither here nor there ethically or legally. Nobody really cares, or if they do, they really don't need to.

I'm a dribbler, I even dribble on my own drive. No one has yet died.

[Guest pelmetman]

crinklystarfish - 2010-07-05 11:25 AM

I'm a dribbler, I even dribble on my own drive.

Have you seen the doctor about that (?) (lol)

[Brian Kirby]

crinklystarfish - 2010-07-05 11:25 AM

........I did, though, once see a bloke float a paper bag away from his boat most mornings and wondered if it was some kind of deeply cultural ritual akin to far-eastern funeral celebrations.

It dawned on me several months later what little surprises the bags held......................

Blimey!  Precision job, that - straight into the bag! 

Safety warning: "DO NOT TRY THIS AFTER VISITING THE PUB" !!!!!!!!  :-D

[teflon2]

O.K all you dribblers try this for size. Friend of mine driving company van which had full bulkhead between cab and load area slamed the rear door and drove off not realising that the door didnt lock traffic copper tailed him for over 2miles until a small cardboard box fell out then nicked him for unsafe load T.U. solicitor told him he had to plead guilty resulting in £60 fine and 3points on licence. Discharging waste from moving motorhome could be considered unsafe load only need up himself plod to decide it is and your nicked. Your choice. John *-)

[Blizzard]

crinklystarfish - 2010-07-05 11:25 AM

Regarding legality of dumping grey water onto a public road, I personally know of no specific criminal legislation that would cover such an occurrence.

 

 

crinklystarfish,

 

There are several pieces of 'Traffic' legislation that adequately cover depositing grey water on the highway under certain circumstances.

 

S.161 Highways Act 1980, in brief.... "depositing anything whatsoever on a highway, in consequence of which a user of the highway is injured or endangered" (Fine Only)

 

S.22A Road Traffic Act 1988, in brief "intentionally....causing anything to be on or over a road....in such circumstances that it would be obvious to a reasonable person, that to do so would be dangerous" (Up to 7 years prison)

 

A number of reasonable members on the forum have already expressed concern about the practice being dangerous. All you would need is 12 like minded persons on a jury.

 

I agree with your comment "as usual with the law, there's little prospect of getting done, but it's not impossible".

It's the "not impossible" that concerns me and the burden of proof may be a lot lower than unleashing the full contents of your waste tank in one go at 60mph.

I've followed MH's away from sites in my MH and their "dribble" has been considerable, and these were sites where I emptied my tank before leaving so there's no excuse !!

 

If that discharge, however small was ever shown to have contributed (for example) to a motorcyclist losing control on a potentially greasy and slippery deposit, careless driving could be considered if the MH was traced (CCTV etc)

 

The "significant consequence" you imagine to get something through the CPS could easily be the serious injury or death of that motorcyclist.

Now if that case was proven, the more serious offence of Causing Death By Careless Driving, or in extreme cases, Causing Death By Dangerous Driving you could be looking at a decent stretch inside (Max 14 years for the latter)

 

I do agree that the examples are extreme and unlikely, but they are not impossible and I don't like the idea of even the slightest risk of hurting someone or ending up being prosecuted because I couldn't be bothered to empty my waste considerately.

 

Ken.

[Guest peter]

crinklystarfish - 2010-07-05 11:25 AM

I lived on the waterways for 4 years and never came across anyone who would dump their lavvy straight into the cut..

Oi! are you calling me a liar?. Read the post again! I specifically said "Rivers" and as propper boats have Sea toilets, they can only pump into a holding tank or straight out the bottom or as mine is, both. Whereas Narrowboats (sewertubes) Have primitive bucket and chuckit toilets.

[Guest peter]

Brian Kirby - 2010-07-05 6:07 PM

crinklystarfish - 2010-07-05 11:25 AM

........I did, though, once see a bloke float a paper bag away from his boat most mornings and wondered if it was some kind of deeply cultural ritual akin to far-eastern funeral celebrations.

It dawned on me several months later what little surprises the bags held......................

Blimey!  Precision job, that - straight into the bag! 

Safety warning: "DO NOT TRY THIS AFTER VISITING THE PUB" !!!!!!!!  :-D

Or visiting the Indian restaurant.