Gas alarms Are they really needed Travelling?

[greem1]

 

Horror stories scaring my soul mate ....do we need to get one travelling thru France/Spain etc?

 

any help gratefully received

 

8-)

[flicka]

Hi Greem & welcome to the forum

There was extensive discussion on here regarding this matter approx 2 years ago.

The general consensus was that it is an urban myth & nobody could supply specific incidents with related police reports.

There was also a detailed report obtained by Brian Kirby from emminent people in the toxilogical field, who stated that it was not feasible. (can't remember the exact statement) but sufficient information to rubbish the reports.

Try the search using "Gas attack" author "Brian Kirby" & all posts, should give you the confidence to ignore such "stories".

[Guest Tracker]

This is one of those can of worms that gets opened from time to time.

 

There are some who swear that gas attacks are a real threat and equally there are those who swear that they are a figment of fertile but tired imaginations.

 

Yer pays yer money and yer takes yer choice.

 

Alarms are not expensive and if it brings you peace of mind it is probably worth the outlay.

 

On the other hand most of us don't bother but do use enormous ammounts of awareness before parking up anywhere overnight - including camp sites.

[vindiboy]

Most of us don't believe the GASSING whilst you sleep MYTH, but if a GAS ALARM makes you happier go for one. CARBON MONOXIDE GAS can kill you in your sleep, so if you have a faulty gas appliance and it is letting gas into your van you will wan't to know before you die so one of the detector alarms for this is good Insurance. (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol)

[mirage]

A gas alarm won`t help (especially as its a load of nonsense) if you don`t use a bit of savvy where you stop overnight. For complete safety a campsite is the best, at the other extreme any form of layby is the most risky.

[duffers]

It's that time of year again, :D - slow news days

 

we have a small alarm near the gas locker,

we do not park in 'odd' looking places - well

apart from Manchester occasionally :D

 

we always lock doors and set part alarm - ie not interior sensors

and don't leave valuables on display

 

we do, however, frequently enjoy drinking the local water after it has been heavily flavoured by some red looking fruits, so have woken up some mornings with a heavy groggy feeling, almost like we've been drugged - as we undoubtedly have - of course

 

just take it easy and be careful out there - [with apologies to Phil !]

 

ray

[colin]

As above, there is little evidence of gas attacks, but if peace of mind is required there are alarms that detect both butane/propane and 'sleeping' gass' as a combined unit, this would also help settle any nerves about leaking gas and blocked drop outs.

On the van we rented in may in US there where CO, smoke, and gas alarms. We have CO and smoke alarms on the T25, might get a butane/propane alarm for the new van

[malc d]

I would suggest that they are only " needed " if they will stop you worrying.

 

I've done a fair bit of camping around Europe both in a tent and with a motorhome, ( sometimes 'wild' but usually on sites) and survived without one.

 

Mind you, we avoid cities like the plague - maybe it's a bit more dodgy near them ?

 

( In fact I don't think I've ever actually switched my van alarm on. I suppose I should to keep my insurers happy ).

 

But I have got a firm alarm and a carbon monoxide alarm - wouldn't fancy going without those.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:-)

[ian81]

mirage - 2010-07-03 11:18 PM

 

A gas alarm won`t help (especially as its a load of nonsense) if you don`t use a bit of savvy where you stop overnight. For complete safety a campsite is the best, at the other extreme any form of layby is the most risky.

 

....for complete safety dont get out of bed!!!!

 

Personally life is full of risks -use your head when you park and certainly dont discount French aires -we use them and wild camp across France and Spain and only have felt slightly worrried on a couple of occasions with youths on their bikes. Campsites have thier fair share of problems.

[Brian Kirby]

ian81 - 2010-07-04 12:17 PM ..........use your head when you park and certainly dont discount French aires -we use them ............ Campsites have thier fair share of problems.

Campsites, in reality, have very few problems.  I would therefore ask for the evidence for the latter statement.

Regarding aires, do be aware that this term refers to those "aires" constructed for overnight parking of motorhomes, and not to either service stations or pic-nic spots on autoroutes, which are also called aires.  It is not the word "aire" you should look for, it is what comes after it, but if it is on an autoroute, autopista, autovia, autobahn, autostrada - or whatever - don't stop overnight on it, whether it is a free, or toll, road!

The risk is break in and robbery, and is very unlikely indeed to be assisted by use of any narcotic gas!

[emjay]

Having read widely about this subject and considered all the points made I don't think you need a gas alarm.

 

Undoubtedly there have been some robberies of motor homes whilst the occupants were asleep. However I don't believe that sleeping gas was involved.

 

I do have my my MH alarmed - all the doors and doors to the main storage compartments outside are alarmed.

 

I also have a portable carbon monoxide alarm at home and we take this with us in the motor home most of the time because when we are wild camping we have the gas fridge operating all night.

 

Enjoy your motorhoming :-D

[Laura]

Brian Kirby - 2010-07-04 1:00 PM

ian81 - 2010-07-04 12:17 PM ..........use your head when you park and certainly dont discount French aires -we use them ............ Campsites have thier fair share of problems.

Campsites, in reality, have very few problems.  I would therefore ask for the evidence for the latter statement.

Regarding aires, do be aware that this term refers to those "aires" constructed for overnight parking of motorhomes, and not to either service stations or pic-nic spots on autoroutes, which are also called aires.  It is not the word "aire" you should look for, it is what comes after it, but if it is on an autoroute, autopista, autovia, autobahn, autostrada - or whatever - don't stop overnight on it, whether it is a free, or toll, road!

The risk is break in and robbery, and is very unlikely indeed to be assisted by use of any narcotic gas!

We have been driving to Italy in all kinds of vans for 15 years as a couple and me with my father in the car with mother brother and sister before this.We have always parked at night on toll road services in France, Switzerland,Germany,Belgium, and of course Italy.We have never had any bother at them although we have clocked rough looking people acting suspect.However we chain and padlock the front doors closed so no one can get in without making a lot of noise or climbing in a window.God forbid if they managed to do that when we had the dog we would have certainly made the headlines.We are very safety aware and naturally have our fire escape plan in place through windows.Incidental objects like large maglight torches are very handy if someone is foolish enough to put their hand into our van at night along with a hand axe for chopping wood for the bbq.A powder fire extinguisher is also good near the bed to let off in a thiefs face.The side door is impossible to open from the out side too.Even when we had a panel van conversion we chained all three doors together when in the van and when leaving the van.Murder though when you get back to the van a need a wee and have to start fiddling with a padlock.However after speaking to a friend recently a co2 alarm makes sense as co2 exstinguishers have been used in robbery.Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it is our motto for safety and security.We have however been broken into when we left our van in our home town in a secure fenced garage yard.Our water cap was also stolen by a drunk idiot in the UK when we were parked in a car park next to a lovely park with a fishing lake.I think half the problem here is the law allows the thief to get away with it giving them endless rights where as in the south of Italy the locals will happily assist you in beating the thief black and blue with the right to expect more of the same if they do it again.Stay aware.

[Hopesy]

During our last home gas service i puchased a small portable gas alarm. I use this at home, then put it in the van for when we are away (but I only worry about gas appliance leaks). If we were to take a holiday other than in the van i would take it with me for the apartment. Remember the poor unfortunate kids in Greece a couple of years ago. It cost about £20 and will last for 5 years.

[Brian Kirby]

All that fear and barricading, with restricted means of egress, for want of stopping in a proper, reasonably secure, place!  Ye Gods, it sounds like travelling around in your own personal Guantanamo Bay.  If I felt I had to resort to such personally restrictive measures, I'd just stay at home!  Why, why, why?

Use sites or proper aires, for God's sake, then relax, and enjoy yourselves en-route in safety. 

This post finally proves it, DON'T STOP ON EUROPEAN MOTORWAY SERVICE AREAS.  See above for what happens to your mind if you do!  I rest my case.  Barking!!

[Brian Kirby]

Sorry!  Final comment was intended to refer to barricading one's self into a van, having chosen to stop in an insecure place, and not to the poster!  Emotion ruled judgement!  Mea culpa.  Should have said "dotty" anyway.

[crinklystarfish]

Regarding the original question, if we're talking measures to defend against attacks using 'narcotic' gas, then the answer's a simple no.

There are indeed many very pleasant and comparatively safe alternatives to designated rest stops on major European roads.

I wouldn't overnight on one, but nor do I stay on campsites. Though it's wise to be wary, it's important to retain some perspective. Most of Europe is safe given a reasonable amount of prudence.

There's more fear of crime than crime itself.

[Laura]

Brian I think you just dont get it.

Fiat fit rubbish locks that can be opened with a screwdriver by a teenager.

We know this from 1st hand experience.

Chaining them has prevented us becomming victims!

There is a big diference between ''fear'' and awareness.

Its not dotty at all.

We would never suffer any campsite ever again.

The noise for one prevents us from enjoying ourselves so why pay?

That sounds dotty from our point of view but its your choice so who are we to judge.

Over the years we have had totally relaxing happy holidays in our vans becasue we are aware and not blazie about security.

We have witnessed some extreme violence on our travels thats the ''reality'' of the world we live in.

Just becasue we are diferent does not mean we are wrong.

Thanks.

[Brian Kirby]

I admit I got a bit carried away with your description of your van on an autoroute aire, Laura.

Maybe it isn't as bad as it sounded to me, but read back for yourself, and see if you think your description of this chained up vehicle, with the windows the only means of escape, its occupants armed with Maglite torch, axe, and fire extinguisher, exudes an air of confident, relaxed, motorhoming.  I've re-read it and it still sounds more like a mobile prison cell, than any motorhome I'd ever want to be in!  I can't help that, it is just how it comes across to me. 

I prefer to stop somewhere I feel confident and relaxed enough to sit outside under the awning, enjoying the evening sun, eating my evening meal, and sipping my evening plonk so, if what you describe is truly how you prefer it a) you're dead right I don't "get" it and b) you're welcome to "it"!  :-)  Each to their own, eh?

But the point I was really trying to make is that there are proper motorhoming aires in France, the "aires camping-car", and in Italy, the "aree di sosta", where there is nominal security, and none of the, to me, extreme, measures you describe are necessary.

Noise?  Camp site or aire noisy, compared to motorway services or picnic area with all night traffic and all night comings and goings?  Where on earth did you stay?  I must have been absolute bedlam, but hardly representative of the norm for either of the alternatives.  I admit the dawn chorus can get a bit raucous at times, but otherwise?  :-D

[Mel B]

Do you need:

 

A narcotic gas alarm - No.

 

A butane/propane gas alarm - IMV no - a motorhome has lots of high level roof lights (with in-built ventilation to creat air-flow) and lower level drop out vents (which should NOT be blocked), and any escaping gas would go downwards out of the vents.

 

A carbon monoxide alarm - IMV no. The horrific tragedies that occur due to C02 poisoning in apartments and boats are unlikely to occur in a motorhome if you are sensible and don't block vents etc. Apartments/houses tend to be shut up with no air vents to speak of by which any C02 could escape, and obviously on a boat you can't have bottom drop-out vents. The problem with C02 is that you can't smell it, see it, hear it etc .... it is the invisible killer. However, if I had an older motorhome with older type appliances, then this is the only alarm I would probably fit.

 

But as will all of this, if it makes you feel happier and safer then do so.

[Tomo3090]

Absolutely NO! It's a complete urban myth and has no bearing in reality and should be viewed with the same sense of humour as those stories of people being hijacked by aliens, the Loch Ness Monster, people being "regressed" and finding out they were Tutenkhamun, Napoleon or Queen Boudica.

 

If you want to give your money away, why not send it to me and I'll personally undertake to visit these countries in my van and report back on my findings! :-D

[colin]

Mel B - 2010-07-05 6:50 PM

 

Do you need:

 

A narcotic gas alarm - No.

 

A butane/propane gas alarm - IMV no - a motorhome has lots of high level roof lights (with in-built ventilation to creat air-flow) and lower level drop out vents (which should NOT be blocked), and any escaping gas would go downwards out of the vents.

 

A carbon monoxide alarm - IMV no. The horrific tragedies that occur due to C02 poisoning in apartments and boats are unlikely to occur in a motorhome if you are sensible and don't block vents etc. Apartments/houses tend to be shut up with no air vents to speak of by which any C02 could escape, and obviously on a boat you can't have bottom drop-out vents. The problem with C02 is that you can't smell it, see it, hear it etc .... it is the invisible killer. However, if I had an older motorhome with older type appliances, then this is the only alarm I would probably fit.

 

But as will all of this, if it makes you feel happier and safer then do so.

 

As some one whose life was saved by a CO alarm, and having a friend who died from CO poisening in a van, I would say they are not a bad thing to have ;-)

[Brian Kirby]

Mel B - 2010-07-05 6:50 PM ....... Apartments/houses tend to be shut up with no air vents to speak of by which any C02 could escape, and obviously on a boat you can't have bottom drop-out vents. The problem with C02 is that you can't smell it, see it, hear it etc .... it is the invisible killer. ...............

Just in the interests of clarity and accuracy, what you are concerned about here is CO (carbon monoxide), and not CO² (carbon dioxide).  The former won't sustain life, but it won't kill you other than by suffocation.  The latter destroys the oxygen carrying characteristic of your blood, and definitely kills you! 

It is this that is so dangerous, in even quite small quantities because, as Mel says, it is odourless, colourless, and tasteless, so you have no warning of its presence.  It is a product of incomplete combustion, and is present in all combustion processes, but is usually converted to CO² as combustion is completed.  That is why it is associated with poorly maintained heaters, in which the combustion is incomplete. 

Naked flame heaters are the main culprit - even if flued, because it can be a blocked flue that causes the poor combustion.  Ditto gas ovens, and even gas hobs if the space is not ventilated when they are used.  Snow can be a danger for winter campers, because it can block flues/vents, so these must be checked, and any accumulation cleared away.

Heaters, such as the blown air Truma Combis, which have fully enclosed combustion chambers, with fan assisted flue and air supply, do not present this risk - so long as the (normally) flexible air supply/flue pipe is not damaged, and is properly in place, so no need for panic!

[Laura]

Brian Kirby - 2010-07-05 6:32 PM

I admit I got a bit carried away with your description of your van on an autoroute aire, Laura.

Maybe it isn't as bad as it sounded to me, but read back for yourself, and see if you think your description of this chained up vehicle, with the windows the only means of escape, its occupants armed with Maglite torch, axe, and fire extinguisher, exudes an air of confident, relaxed, motorhoming.  I've re-read it and it still sounds more like a mobile prison cell, than any motorhome I'd ever want to be in!  I can't help that, it is just how it comes across to me. 

I prefer to stop somewhere I feel confident and relaxed enough to sit outside under the awning, enjoying the evening sun, eating my evening meal, and sipping my evening plonk so, if what you describe is truly how you prefer it a) you're dead right I don't "get" it and b) you're welcome to "it"!  :-)  Each to their own, eh?

But the point I was really trying to make is that there are proper motorhoming aires in France, the "aires camping-car", and in Italy, the "aree di sosta", where there is nominal security, and none of the, to me, extreme, measures you describe are necessary.

Noise?  Camp site or aire noisy, compared to motorway services or picnic area with all night traffic and all night comings and goings?  Where on earth did you stay?  I must have been absolute bedlam, but hardly representative of the norm for either of the alternatives.  I admit the dawn chorus can get a bit raucous at times, but otherwise?  :-D

We always take these security measures Brian so it does feel normal to us and admittedly can sound mad to another person.But dont think you are safe on a camp site either.We just drive to Italy so we stop for small periods of times so camping along the way isnt part of the plan really as we want to get to Italy see the family ect.We do however most of the time chain the front doors no matter where we are especially if we have been drinking wine and may sleep heavier.People assume they will escape out of a door in the event of fire but when the window right next to you is the easiest means if escape you realise running for the door is rediculas with so many other escapes around you.Especially if you consider the over head cab bed and how you would escape in a fire even without chained doors when there is a window at your feet.The maglight is a torch but also a legal tool if ever needed.God forbid if anyone ever attacked you in your van Brian and you have never thought of putting any security measures in place.What if you were robbed at knife point?Do you have a decoy wallet with a little money in it?Prevention better than cure and all that if you know what I mean.Yes can sound mad but seriously there are some bad people out there.We sleep better with our measures in place.And beleive me up until bed time when we are at our destination we also do exactly what you descibe and sit out enjoying our peace.But yes the services are just a rest gap on a journey although next time we do plan to camp in Switzerland and do some canoeing.All the best.

[Brian Kirby]

I think I was just taken aback by the measures you consider necessary, Laura.  I would be completely unable to relax and sleep in a van if I felt threatened to that extent.  However, if your security measures allow you to relax and sleep they clearly work for you, and I wouldn't presume to question that, despite the impression I have probably given!  :-)

Clearly you are just travelling point to point, whereas we stop along the way to explore places, so the journeys become our tour.  We seldom travel for more than about four hours, usually off main roads, and stop at places that interest us.  I have never had the slightest anxiety over safety, except once on a dodgy sosta at Matera - where I yelled at a local who was trying to nick the water supply hose.  In the end he gave up and scarpered, but I did vaguely wonder if he might come back with his mates.  He didn't, we slept.  Va bene!  Ciao.

[wild rover]

colin - 2010-07-04 11:18 AM

 

As above, there is little evidence of gas attacks, but if peace of mind is required there are alarms that detect both butane/propane and 'sleeping' gass' as a combined unit, this would also help settle any nerves about leaking gas and blocked drop outs.

On the van we rented in may in US there where CO, smoke, and gas alarms.

 

This is really interesting. When I bought my MH from the dealer in Crosshands, Wales, they told me that there was no such thing as a gas alarm!