Pickle Pot Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 If a dealer is selling a brand new van which is clearly Make X, but which he is badging as Make Random Name "because of issues with him not being a main dealer of that marque, but yes, it is Make X", what implications does that have? I had thought it would cause service problems, but if you can't take your van to other dealers to do work, does that really matter? I assume it will have resale knock on effects, but can't think of anything else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 What happens when or if the dealer needs parts under 'warranty' from the converter - who pays - or if there is a dispute will the converter even supply parts? Would you be able to get new badges from the maker - or ask the dealer to let you have the badges that he removed - so that you can undo the rebadging? Would you care to tell us what brand names are involved? If you are away from home with a problem who will you turn to for help? There will almost certainly be an issue with trade in values for any non standard vehicle as dealers will always look for a way to offer you less as partt of their usual trading policy. In this case they may well be justified because an unknown brand would probably be a wise put off for many buyers and whilst many people don't know much about brand names - a lot more do! The base vehicle should not be affected as this will be warranted and serviced by the the vehicle's own dealer network as before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 I would be very suspicious. There where a load of flood damaged motorhomes around last year that had been stripped of manafactures vinyl and identification :-S It would be easier if you identified what you where looking at and added a lnk if you want some worthwhile opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hymer1942 Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 Hi, I would agree with Judge here, more information is needed. Barrie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 All sounds a bit suspect to me ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 Pickle Pot - 2010-07-20 7:12 AM If a dealer is selling a brand new van which is clearly Make X, but which he is badging as Make Random Name "because of issues with him not being a main dealer of that marque, but yes, it is Make X", what implications does that have? I had thought it would cause service problems, but if you can't take your van to other dealers to do work, does that really matter? I assume it will have resale knock on effects, but can't think of anything else? Not clear what you actually mean. Is this a new van that would ordinarily have a well know makers name on (eg rapido) it that now has some other (unknown) makers name on it (eg Bloggs), or is it a van from a large chain that is sold under their own brand, while being made for them by a reputable maker (eg Marquis County, made exclusively for Marquis by Auto Sleepers)? If the latter, there should be no problem with warranty or resale. If the former, I'd run a country mile! Just ask yourself why would the dealer do this? The maker's name has been removed. Why? Where now is the maker's warranty? Where do you go for parts/repairs if the dodgy dealer goes bankrupt? Where does the dodgy dealer go for parts/repairs if he stays solvent? Why has the dealer disguised the maker's identity? Has the maker disowned the van because of a serious manufacturing fault, or as Judgemental says, because it has been standing in two feet of water and no sane person would buy it? I assume it is attractively cheap? Why? Just put on the ice pack, sit down quietly, think, and go on asking "why" until your head hurts, and you have all the answers. Then go and buy a proper van somewhere else. There, that wasn't too difficult, was it? :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enodreven Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 Hi, It does sound very strange, surley if they can't sell it with the correct name/type there could be some questions when registering it as I always thought most motorhomes had some form of type approval. If it has already been registered then surley it would be sold as orginal but secondhand which shouldn't cause any problems. I think I would give it a miss unless there was a very very substancial saving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 I for one would be very interested as to what and were it is ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 And you could have trouble insuring it as well as all the well known insurers know all the makes and models and charge accordingly. If your anonymous name isn't on their list then they may decline to quote. What use is your shiny new M/H without insurance? Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pickle Pot Posted July 20, 2010 Author Share Posted July 20, 2010 Oh blimey o'reilly, how come none of you are saying what my heart wanted to hear you say?! And why do I suspect you are all absolutely right ... Thank you all for your input! I didn't want to post a link - partly because that would generate extra traffic to the webpage so the dealer's less likely to accept the offer I was planning if he thinks the wonderful world of the interweb is taking a huge interest in "my" van, but also partly because I assume most dealers monitor these sites as a matter of course and my previous thread was all about how much to offer and what to bargain with. However, the van is badged as Nobel Art, but to all intents and purposes it is a Rimor Superbrig 699 and is indeed being advertised as that, both on the dealer's own website and elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 I thought you where a retired couple or at least an old duffer......why on earth would you want a 7 metre 6 berth heavy coachbuilt? Can you drive over 3500kg on your licence? because at 3500kg I dont think you would have much payload left...certainly not for 6 people *-) If I have this wrong it really is your fault for being so mysterious :-D found this: http://www.motorhomefacts.com/forum-printtopic-1-88509-0-0-asc-viewresult-1.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bounty hunter Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 Is this your van? http://www.motortrek.ie/Sales.php?Id=19 John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pickle Pot Posted July 20, 2010 Author Share Posted July 20, 2010 JudgeMental - 2010-07-20 2:30 PM I thought you where a retired couple or at least an old duffer......why on earth would you want a 7 metre 6 berth heavy coachbuilt? Can you drive over 3500kg on your licence? because at 3500kg I dont think you would have much payload left...certainly not for 6 people *-) If I have this wrong it really is your fault for being so mysterious :-D :-D Just goes to show you really can be whoever you like on here (lol) Nope, the sad reality is that I've got 20 some years to retirement - in fact, one of the appeals of the rear lounge is that we can travel abroad for a couple of months at a time cos I can work from any country sitting at the dinette with my laptop whilst Mr PP plays out with our child in the rear lounge. I'd have a bucketload of payload with that particular one as I can drive the van plated at 3850 not 3500. Mysterious, eh? I quite like that B-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pickle Pot Posted July 20, 2010 Author Share Posted July 20, 2010 bounty hunter - 2010-07-20 2:32 PM Is this your van? http://www.motortrek.ie/Sales.php?Id=19 John No, that's a different Nobel Art all together - mine's on a Ford chassis... What sort of van is that, do you know (i'm assuming the Nobel Art bit is a disguise for another make?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 It's not all doom & gloom Nobal Art is a cheap brand sold by Palmowski in Germany. http://www.reisemobil-discount.de/ Incredibly cheap Palmowski say they are by Palmo-Mobil they are scooter manufacters! (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 I saw that van, or one very similar, at the Northern show, it is a Kentucky Camp/Rimor Superbrig for definite - you just have to look at some of the smaller stickers. I spotted it from 30ft away and was bemused to see it had a new name! Why not ask them why it has a different name? It may simply be that they've decided to rebrand it for the UK market as Rimor and Kentucky aren't massively know here anyway and maybe they thought this sounded 'better'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 Not that popular in Germany either, only 2 or 3 for sale on www.mobile.de when other makes and models tend to have 100's available Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pickle Pot Posted July 21, 2010 Author Share Posted July 21, 2010 Mel B, I did ask them and their reply is in inverted commas in my original post - it was the vagueness of what they said that made me start this thread. Like you say, the van is clearly a rimor superbrig and appears to be in perfect condition, so I could see no reason for them to replace the decals with a new name - especially when they are advertising it everywhere as a rimor. Judge - yes, the 699 is fairly rare, I couldn't see any of those on mobile.de, which surprises me because it looks a lovely van. I understand they're pretty common in their homeland of Italy, though - do you see many on your travels over there? I think what I don't get is whether when I ring for insurance, I call it the name that has been decal-ed onto the outside, or the van that it clearly is underneath, that it's advertised as and that every part of it is identified as ... despite the fact that, as Lenny points out, it's claimed it's been made by a scooter maker 8-) Brian Kirby - 2010-07-20 11:53 AM Just put on the ice pack, sit down quietly, think, and go on asking "why" until your head hurts, and you have all the answers. Then go and buy a proper van somewhere else. There, that wasn't too difficult, was it? :-D I know this is good advice, but this van ticks all my boxes ... and it feels much better than the Rollerteam 600 that's my backup choice .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 It is not a completely unknown brand in Europe and if the price is right and you are sure it is the right van for you and you intend to keep it for quite a few years probably worth a punt. If you think you are going to change it after 2/3 years you may have trouble moving it on but anything sells if the price is right. As for the insurance declare it as what it is. If you are unfortunate and have a prang and you have told them it's a Rimor & it's got Nobal-Art plastered all over it you have given them a good excuse not to pay out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 Pickle Pot - 2010-07-21 10:55 AM ............Brian Kirby - 2010-07-20 11:53 AM Just put on the ice pack, sit down quietly, think, and go on asking "why" until your head hurts, and you have all the answers. Then go and buy a proper van somewhere else. There, that wasn't too difficult, was it? :-D I know this is good advice, but this van ticks all my boxes ... and it feels much better than the Rollerteam 600 that's my backup choice .. "Palmo-Mobil" simply refers to Palmowski (website www.palmo.de) the German dealer, not a scooter maker. Seems they have taken them up as a very cheap offer, which they are. Typically Italian big boxes on wheels. All Fiat based. Haven't tried checking payloads, but strongly suspect this will be where their teeth will show. :-) In whose name is the warranty written? It does seem to be a Rimor. Rimor produce Kentucky Camp (also an American ghost town!) although the KC factory is in Ravenna, and Rimor are in Poggibonsi. Rimor used to produce under the Dueere name (now disappeared), and currently produce the XGo range. Nobel Art may just be a recession beater that is selling Rimors cheap, but will disappear from the market when sales pick up again, so that Rimor's higher prices are protected. This, from Barclays capital, may interest. Tread soft, methinks! Somewhere, there is a distinct whiff of rodent! Who are the "mezzanine" lenders? Might be interesting.Autocaravans Rimor12 Apr 2010http://www.bpe.com/static/BPE/Uk/BPE%20Image/Image%20Files/UK_BPE_RIMOR.jpgRimorThe Deal In August 2004, Barclays Private Equity, Milan acquired a 72% stake in Rimor, an Italian manufacturer of recreational vehicles, in a transaction valued at €79m.Rimor, a family owned business founded in 1978, is a designer, manufacturer and assembler of recreational vehicles. The business is positioned in the mid to up-market range and produced 3,616 vehicles in 2003. In December 2006, the company completed a debt recapitalisation, allowing Barclays Private Equity to realise a substantial portion of its investment whilst retaining its equity stake in the business. The Exit In April 2010, Barclays Private Equity, together with the company's lenders, agreed a full restructuring of the outstanding debt which led to the sale of BPE's stake in Rimor to its mezzanine lenders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 If the manufacturer's warranty failed to hold water and the supplying dealer became 'obstructive' you would be in no worse a situation than many Autocruise owners found themselves a year or three back when Swift refused - sorry were unable - to help any pre takeover owners and I suspect that all of them survived OK - if a little out of pocket paying for any failures? The base vehicle will still be covered by it's maker as long as all the paperwork is in order and it should be possible to contact a dealer to verify this and correct any 'anomolies' before you need their support. Assuming you like the van and the price is right and are you prepared to sort out any faults yourself if you had to - easier if you have copious common sense and diy abilities - I might well be inclined to go for it but be prepared to have to utilise some of the cash savings in maintenance if the worst comes to the worst? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 Rich is probably right if ticks all the right boxes and is the right price. Bear in mind you can buy one a new 2010 model for about £33,000 in Germany that's before you start haggling, I take it the one you are looking at is 2009 if I were buying I would expect it to be under 25k with a fair few goodies thrown in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 Sorry PP ... I need to go to Specsavers! 8-) It most definitely is a Rimor, the smaller stickers attached to it say so and I thought the price was extremely good especially with the rear lounge which is a fairly unusual layout for a foreign made van. Having owned a Rimor Sailer 645TC until recently, basically the same build as a Superbrig but in low profile guise, I can certainly say that ours was a very robust vehicle indeed. We didn't have any problems with it except the fridge, which was down to it having a faulty circuit board, not Rimor's fault. One thing to be aware of is that to keep the warranty 'sweet' you have to have a certified damp check carried out every six months and it MUST be done within that six month timescale, not a week or 2 later, otherwise the warranty is null and void. The booklet has a form specifically for the damp check in it, divided into 3 sections, each section is stamped by the tester and they keep a section, one section is left in the booklet, and the other has to be sent to the manufacturer (Rimor?) - this was always done by us sending it to Southdowns who are official Rimor dealers, and who were happy to forward it on to Rimor for us. It would be a good idea to check if they would be willing to do this for you as I don't think you are 'permitted' to send it direct to Rimor yourself. Payload has been mentioned ... get it on a weightbridge and check it out properly - it is a big heavy van and our Rimor was too close for comfort and there were only 2 of us and 2 dogs, no heavy overcab to add to the weight. I think this is it: http://users.autoexposure.co.uk/vehicle.cfm?Account=SHD1515015&Style=2&Id=AETV96860097&Make=NEW-RIMOR&Model=SUPERBRIG%20999%20LIVING&City=Nottingham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 If Mel is right price at nearly 40k is madness...Like Lenny said better German built vans are available for under £30.000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 Eddie - have you actually examined a Rimor in the flesh as it were? Our Rimor was very well built, nothing dropped off, wore out, it took knocks and bangs and didn't get damaged (other than the bricks but we won't go there! :D). It was better built than the Rapido we had and they are very well built! This was our actual Rimor ... when we traded it, it certainly did not look it's age (3+ years): http://www.highbridgecaravans.co.uk/usedmotorhomedetails.php?ID=00020517 The Sailer and Superbrig models are the top of their range, the only way they can be 'improved' is to specify Mercs instead of Transits if you've got deep pockets. How much would you have to pay for the equivalent of a top of the range German van with all the bells and whistles .... a lot more than £40k I'd bet. :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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