Your Freedom proposal for motorhome stopovers

[Andy_C]

This is actually the best formulated suggestion I've seen to encourage motorhome stopover facilities in the UK.

 

http://yourfreedom.hmg.gov.uk/restoring-civil-liberties/motor-caravan-aires-and-wild-camping-in-suitable-locations/idea-view

 

I think it's worth supporting, if only for freedom of choice.

 

Andy

[Guest Tracker]

I like it and am indebted to my honourable friend for drawing it to my attention!

 

I've bunged in my two pennerth as well!

[lennyhb]

Good idea, added my comments.

 

May we worth us all contacting our MP's maybe there's one out there who would bring a private members bill before the house if that's what's needed to get the Acts amended or is it just a case of lobbing local councils.

 

One part of the statement states that a couple of acts need changing yet further down the document it states that local Authorities already have the power to create Aires.

 

I am I right in thinking that to create an Aire the council can do it if they want to but to allow Motorhomes to overnight in a car park using their own facilities they need the acts changing?

 

 

[Guest Tracker]

If councils had the political will or could see an economic return in excess of the cost they would soon turn in favour of Aires!

 

The other obstacle is the traveller syndrome which many voters still associate with the likes of us responsible tourists who simply prefer not to be herded into our compounds - aka camp sites - every night in case we turn into were wolves after dusk and ravage them all in their sleep!

[flicka]

Great link Andy

 

I have posted my comment.

Lets hope we have a huge response.

 

[Guest Tracker]

I've sent the link to our only representative in the UK, The Motor Caravan Club, asking for their opinion and attitudes towards the idea of Aires and whether they are involved in the consulation process and I will post their reply in due course.

 

Perhaps they are as good a place as any to start registering our support?

 

http://motorcaravanners.eu/index.php?option=com_weblinks&catid=83&Itemid=103

[John J Thompson]

Tracker - 2010-07-20 8:08 PM

 

I've sent the link to our only representative in the UK, The Motor Caravan Club, asking for their opinion and attitudes towards the idea of Aires and whether they are involved in the consulation process and I will post their reply in due course.

 

Perhaps they are as good a place as any to start registering our support?

 

http://motorcaravanners.eu/index.php?option=com_weblinks&catid=83&Itemid=103

 

As the person who posted this suggestion to the "Your Freedom" website can I comment here.

 

It is the 1937 Public Heath Act that is a stumbling block as it is this Act that defines what a caravan is. Things have changed since the 1930s and Motorhomes have moved on considerably from waggons with a box on them.

 

The 1960 Act (section 2 paragraph 11) allows local Authorities to set up caravan sites on land they own or control without needing to go through formal planning procedures. Private Aires would, without this act being modified, require Planning Permission.

 

I to have contacted the Motor Caravanners Club as a member requesting their support and comments.

 

We could also do with getting the Motor Caravan manufacturers involved and supporting the request as they did in France when this was proposed there in the 1960s.

 

John Thompson

[Tony Jones]

Well done John, I've just added my own support.

And I'll e-mail "Horizons Unlimited," maker of my van, with a link and request for support.

But it probably really needs the big boys to get on board - Swift Group, Explorer Group, Auto-sleepers etc. Will those of you who run vans from them do the same?

[Andy_C]

John Thompson - 2010-07-20 9:17 PM

The 1960 Act (section 2 paragraph 11) allows local Authorities to set up caravan sites on land they own or control without needing to go through formal planning procedures. Private Aires would, without this act being modified, require Planning Permission.

 

John Thompson

Hi John,

 

Firstly my congratulations on a very well presented case, well done!

However, I think what you state above is not quite the case.

 

The 1960 Act gives councils the power to set up 'caravan sites' without the need for a site licence but this particular exemption does not confer 'permitted development rights', so planning permission may be required.

 

This is the situation that Teignbridge DC finds itself in at the moment over its motorhome stopover at Dawlish Warren. The local planning department are saying that there is a 'material change of use' and that planning consent is required.

 

I understand that they have reached this view because of the numbers of motorhomes using the facility.

 

I think what's needed is an additional category of land use: 'Motor caravan stopover' for example, with the use limited to vehicles with the body type 'motor caravan', and with more relaxed planning requirements than are currently the case for land used as a caravan site.

 

Andy

[flicka]

Just been reading Norma's thread on "P&R Edinburgh" regarding the problems with "Travellers".

Thinking it may be Local Authorities main concern when discussing the why's & wherefore's of overnight facilities / parking.

 

Do mainland Europe suffer from this problem on Aires / Stelplats, etc.?

 

If so how do they deal with the situation, is it something the Uk needs to learn from & introduce, which would reduce Local Authorities concerns & ease the current expensive & timely procedure for them to do anything about the problem?

 

If not why are the "travellers" a problem in the UK & not in mailand Europe.?

 

IMO This is something that will have to be addressed if the proposal is to have any chance of success. Otherwise it will be vetoed by 90% plus of local authorities & again in IMO they would have a strong case to support their position.

[Tony Jones]

The "travellers" question is a whole other matter.

In France I often see signs for "Aires d'Accueil des Gens de Voyage" - travellers sites. But in UK the only ones I ever hear of are the illegal ones.

This may be because our local councils don't make provision for genuine "travellers," but IMO there's another difference.

 

The travellers I've seen on the Continent (usually white van plus big caravan) always seem to "do what it says on the tin," ie they TRAVEL.

Lots of the controversy in the UK seems to centre on people who call themselves "travellers," but just want to live long-term in caravans on land which doesn't have residential planning permission. This often involves laying concrete roadways, building sheds etc - then they complain they're being badly treated when they're told to obey the law. "But we're travellers - that's our way of life" they bleat, but the last thing they want to do is actually TRAVEL. It's just a way of avoiding paying their way in society.

 

Sort this lot out, and ther wouldn't be a problem with genuine travellers who, like us, would stay a sort time somewhere then move on.

 

Rant over!

[Guest Tracker]

I wonder if the Moderators will bring this to the attention of Warners / MMM / WMC and see whether they would each care to comment on their attitudes towards the topic?

 

Hitherto all I have seen and read from all of the above is total support for us all being herded into expensive and often unsuitable compounds - aka caravan and camping (note the terminology) sites - every night as per the 'one size fits all campers' theory?

 

Would these parties care to comment on company and editorial policy please?

[flicka]

bumped

[lennyhb]

flicka - 2010-07-21 2:26 PM

 

 

If not why are the "travellers" a problem in the UK & not in mailand Europe.?

 

 

Because we have stupid laws that allow the criminals to take the police to court if they get heavy handed with law breakers.

 

Look how often on the news you see foreign police wade in with batons, no one complains because everyone knows they deserved it.

 

 

[John J Thompson]

I have been a member of the Motor Caravanners Club for a while and in that time I have not seen anything mentioned about getting Aires in the UK.

 

Today I have done a search on the clubs website for Aires and there is nothing relevant Only something about French Aires. I tried Local Authorities and got the "Height Barrier petition" but nothing about staying overnight.

[John J Thompson]

The site has now closed on 10 September.

 

There were 107 suporters and 110 comments.

 

It would appear that there is no demand for Aires in the UK.

 

John

[maggyd]

Three times this year I have been asked by Foreigners as to IF we have Aires in England! one Dutch lady at Trier a French lady at Rowntree park and a Swedish lady at Fussen :-S they all said that they would love to tour England but find the prices at Campsites are very expensive!

 

We are losing out on Tourism just because as I see it the Clubs are against Aires.

[thebishbus]

Hi all.Having returned from our first trip through Germany, I must say how impressed I was with the Stellplatze system, better than the Fench aires I think, and all that most motorhomers require from stopovers. This system should be encouraged in the UK, and if the

barrier/pay/card system was used, would be the answer to the freeloader/itinerant objection.

Brian B.

[neilmac]

Surely the nearest we are going to get in the UK to aires are motorhome friendly pubs?

 

Sadly 'aires' are just not going to happen in the UK, at least, not in the foreseeable future. I admire and applaud those that campaign for these facilities as they have far more patience and determination than I have for dealing with our authorities :-S

 

Most pubs with a suitable car park will let a motorhome stay overnight, some may make a nominal charge, some expect patronage of their bar and some are just free. If folks don't like the idea of asking the publican for permission there are websites (like ours ;-) ) that have lists of motorhome friendly pubs, so that the motorhomer knows in advance where they're going to park that night and can even telephone ahead to confirm availability.

 

I really do think that this is the nearest we are likely to get to aires in this country.

[Rod_vw]

neilmac - 2010-09-12 10:23 AMSurely the nearest we are going to get in the UK to aires are motorhome friendly pubs?Sadly 'aires' are just not going to happen in the UK, at least, not in the foreseeable future. I admire and applaud those that campaign for these facilities as they have far more patience and determination than I have for dealing with our authorities :-S Most pubs with a suitable car park will let a motorhome stay overnight, some may make a nominal charge, some expect patronage of their bar and some are just free. If folks don't like the idea of asking the publican for permission there are websites (like ours ;-) ) that have lists of motorhome friendly pubs, so that the motorhomer knows in advance where they're going to park that night and can even telephone ahead to confirm availability.I really do think that this is the nearest we are likely to get to aires in this country.

Sorry Neil, this is not the time to be defeatist.It’s time that tourist organisations and chambers of commerce realised that an Aire, Stellplatz, Stopover or what ever title you give it is just as advantageous to an area as a B&B. It brings the tourist money into the local economy.With sufficient pressure I am sure that the archaic laws preventing what we need can be revised.What this cause needs is for the magazines, Warners Group and any others plus the Motor Home manufacturers large and small to put their weight behind the cause. Come on magazine editors let’s see you supporting motor home owners like Le Monde du Camping-Car does in France. (There may be other magazines over there but that is one that has caught my eye.)We, like many others on this forum, would love to meander over the British countryside for days or weeks at a sensible cost spending our £s in UK shops. However we find ourselves exiled to mainland Europe due to the lack of affordable facilities at home so spending our £s as €s. Don’t get me wrong, France and Germany are beautiful but so is Great Britain!By the way Andy, I did add my comments on the .gov site.