Small City Cars ... thoughts please

[Mel B]

Thanks for the info guys - a lot to take in! We've decided that we don't really want to go over £7,000 if we can help it unless it was for something very, very special indeed which we just had to have.

 

We've seen some of the cars now and have discounted some and given more serious consideration to others:

 

Kia Picanto 1 - whilst the warranty is good, and it did have some oomph which was nice, plus it had 5 doors, the car itself is just too tinny and there was a lot of road noise, plus it didn't have central locking at all, not even key operated, which is a minimum requirement. The fact that it was also over £1000 more than other cars didn't do it any favours (even with the warranty longer warranty that's a high premium to pay).

 

Citroen C1 - a nice looking car, no electric windows (not a major issue), but not bad overall, £500 more expensive which we didn't feel was a premium worth paying as we think its just a bit toooo small.

 

Peugeot 107 - as per Citroen C1 above.

 

Vauxhall Agila - quite pricey compared to the others although you do get some extra bits and pieces, just not stuff we'd particularly want/need, a bit on the small side again.

 

Ford Ka - pricey, no elec windows, no central locking, no spare wheel (£50 extra I think!), nice style, but not worth paying extra for.

 

Toyota Aygo - again too small and pricey.

 

Suzuki Splash - too pricey for what it is, for us anyway.

 

Hyundai i10 Classic - older engine technology (from what I can tell!), more expensive insurance (group 3 - most are group 1), some of the safety features missing (ESC, EBD), although it is a 5 door which goes in it's favour and it does have air con (not a necessity). No particular offers on it at the moment so paying full price.

 

Fiat Panda (sorry I know I put Punto before! *-) ) - I like the 'square' look but having crawled all over one again today and driven one, I'm not so sure about it - it does look lovely in pale yellow though! :D A little bit plasticy inside and a fair bit of road noise, but not as bad as the Kia. It did move like the proverbial rat up a drainpipe though which was a pleasant surprise!!! 5 doors are a bonus and some nice bits such as elec front windows, central key locking, ABS, EBD, but the base section of the rear seat doesn't go forward out of the way so there's a great 'chunk' of seat in the way of what would otherwise be a great load space. Probably not for us, but not bad for the money at all!

 

Renault Twingo - This is the current favourite - we do like our Renaults having had a Boston Special 11, 2 x Meganes, Scenic, and a Clio over the years. It's the only one with remote central locking (whey-hey!), and has also got elec front windows, CD/MP3 player with steering column controls (got them already in our Megane), ABS, EBD, 'intelligent wipers'. We drove one today and it is a very, very smooth and quiet ride, seats are very comfortable (its French so of course they are!), and it handles very well. There are only 2 things that we're not so sure about: it wasn't quite as nippy as the Kia or the Fiat as it has a slightly less powerful (bhp) engine, and the one thing that might be the killer is the road tax issue - one saleman said it's a 'C': £0, then £35 a year, another said it's 'D': £110 a year. The website says one thing, the brochure another!!!!

 

One thing we'd have to get used to is having only 3 doors as we've always had 5, but this isn't a definite requirement, we'd just have to get used to less - the 3 doors are still fairly easy to get into the back of and I'm sure I can shoe-horn my 85 year old mum in there somehow ... just not sure how I'd 'retrieve' her!!!! (lol)

 

Still mulling it all over - but will probably revisit the Renault Twingo for another test drive if we can sort out the 'confusion' over the tax. :-S

[flicka]

Mel B - 2010-07-29 9:25 PM

 

Still mulling it all over - but will probably revisit the Renault Twingo for another test drive if we can sort out the 'confusion' over the tax. :-S

 

Mel

have a look here for the Car Tax bands, scroll down to the Table & for the changes introduced this year.

http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/car-buyers-guide/cbg_roadtax.html

 

Have a look at the VW Fox & this site for others in the Low Tax band

http://www.parkers.co.uk/News/Road-tax/

[Mel B]

Thanks Flicka - just been having a look on there anyway - great minds think alike!

 

It looks like the Twingo is a 130 emissions car, so it would be £0 for the first year and £90 thereafter.

 

I've just had a look at the VW Fox - not bad, but not struck ... sorry. :-S

[RogP]

Mel

 

just a thought have you looked at the SEAT or Skoda ranges yet?

 

not instantly on everyones radar but both marques have inproved considerably over the past few years on the back of being VW owned.

 

 

[Guest Tracker]

If you carry dogs or kit in the boot of a three door and need to load shopping into, or frequent rear seat passenger access, the car two front doors only can be a bit of a pain to access the back seats.

 

May I respectfully suggest that you look at and drive a used Honda Jazz at about the same price before you part with any cash as this is the super mini by which all others should be judged for practicality, quality of finish and reliability? You might have to haggle hard for an extended warranty for a full three years if that's what you want but personally I wouldn't worry too much if I couldn't get that because chances are it will not go wrong!

 

According to Auto Express Renault both as a company and their dealers have raised their game in the last year or two - mind you starting from where they were on the Driver Power survey that should not have been too hard to achieve! Honda and Skoda are almost always the top two makers and dealer networks (apart from Lexus - but I don't expect you want a Lexus do you?)

[Randonneur]

Mel B - 2010-07-29 11:35 PM

 

Thanks Flicka - just been having a look on there anyway - great minds think alike!

 

It looks like the Twingo is a 130 emissions car, so it would be £0 for the first year and £90 thereafter.

 

I've just had a look at the VW Fox - not bad, but not struck ... sorry. :-S

 

I have a Ford Focus 1.8 Diesel and I love it, the roadholding is phenominal. Our Friends have just bought the 1.4 Eco diesel and they get about 70+ mpg from it and the tax is £35 they say. This may be worth a look.

[Guest Tracker]

The difference in fuel consumption costs between 40 and 60 mpg together with the difference in road tax pales into insignificance when compared to the depreciation of any new car and getting the right car that will hold more of it's value, be pleasant to use and live with and potentially dependable is in my view far more important than the possibility of a few extra mpg?

[RogP]

Randonneur - 2010-07-30 10:52 AM

 

 

I have a Ford Focus 1.8 Diesel and I love it, the roadholding is phenominal..

 

 

Quite the opposite for me , I'm using a 2005 Focus 1.6 (Auto) at present and hate it. Partly I dont think that the engine is suited to being mated to the auto box and partly the handling (for me at least) is woeful.

 

I've lost count at the number of times the back end looses grip on corners and no I'm not pushing hard just normal slow speed turning left or right corners - my granddad would be proud of me for "driving like my granddad".

 

Tyres and pressure are all on the money (being a "retired" biker I have a bit of OCD when it comes to making sure the pressures are right and the tyres are in order to the point even our mountain bikes have to be right.)

[Rainbow-Chasers]

Think about how you drive and where you drive before considering a small car such as this.

 

If you are just knocking about town sedately, then it could be an option. If you often use motorways, main routes or travel distance, then maybe not!

 

A small engine is fine when power is not needed. If on a motorway, you will push it to it's limit to keep to 70 ish - and you will watch the fuel vanish! Common in all small cars. also, if working these engines, they will not last as long as you might expect. Don't expect too much, these are tiny engines, running with very little oil in them for emissions purposes.

 

If you want economy, look at either something with a good power-weight ratio. a larger engine with little weight to pull, will actually be quite economical...for example - i get equiv 65mpg from a mercedes e-class running on LPG. The deisels do around 50. Though this is non relevant to you - it demonstrates the point that big engines are not all gas guzzling.

 

A 1.6 will easily be more economical than a 1.4, it will handle mortorway speeds better, and will not strain - and thus use more fuel - as to how this will effect your tax, is up to you to decide what outweighs what in your opinion - but for an extra £50 a year in tax, you could save a good few hundred in fuel.

[Mel B]

Skoda - the Fabia looks to be a nice car (I did see one parked on the road at work today and had a little 'shuftie'!) but at over £8,000 for the base model which has the same engine capacity/performance as the Twingo it seems an expensive way to get 5 doors.

 

Seat - Can’t decide whether I really like them or not! They’re a bit bigger than I was looking for and more expensive too.

 

We won’t do a massive mileage - probably 3,000 miles a year, so being exceptionally frugal in the fuel stakes isn’t a vital consideration, neither is the road tax issue, hence why we’ve considered some which are up to £100 a year. There’s only the 2 of us and the dogs for 99.9% of the time so the need for 5 doors is minimal, it’s just that we’ve got used to them, but the 3 doors are larger so getting in the back and getting at stuff, whilst not as easy as a 5 door, isn’t impossible either. Shopping - we tend to get it from more local shops like Lidl etc rather than do massive shops from the big supermarkets on the outskirts of town, and go once a week. We have been known to use the scooters for our weekly shop as they’ve got good storage under the seats and in the top boxes but obviously we wouldn’t want to do this is bad weather/winter. We don’t do many longer journeys so we’d use the motorhome anyway as it’s very drivable, therefore a car is just to mainly to tootle around locally.

 

No massive rush to do anything as, at the end of the day, we've got a good car. But now seems a very good item to consider changing to a smaller car with the deals that are on offer.

 

Still ‘researching’ and ‘cogitating’!!!

:D

[Mel B]

Just 'found' out that the Chevrolet Spark is being discounted ... 1.0+ model for £6999 (normally £8,395) with 5 years warranty, 5 years servicing, 5 yeard breakdown ... hmmmmm what did I forget .... oh yes ... 5 doors too.

:D

 

Gonna see if we can look at one tomorrow .... :-D

 

Stop press ..... just 'found' that the Hyundai i10 is also being discounted at £6799 too (normally £7725) ... will be paying a visit to that dealer too!!!

:->

[Randonneur]

Just because most of the time there are only 2 of you (like us) I really would go for a 5 door. We have a very old 3 door Discovery and my previous car was a Fiesta 3 door and they are so inconvenient so when we got the Focus 5 door it is a joy. Easier to put things on the backseat and if you do want to carry large items the seats go down so with the rear doors it is easier to manouver bulky stuff. My Focus is a 2001 which belonged to a Friend from new and he is very particuler about his cars, that is why we bought it because we knew its history.

[Rayjsj]

Mel,

I know they are expensive but we have chosen a Toyota Yaris(5-door TR) as our everyday car, (and as a 'Toad' for our 'Van). We have an 'ageing' Toyota Rav4 at the moment, which has been marvelous over the last 13 years with never ANY problems during 128,000 miles. So, we decided to stick with a manufacturer we trust. We know about all the recent scares and recalls ( at least they were well publicised, unlike Fiats X250 Gearbox fault) over throttle sticking, we still like them, What a pity that they don't make a Motorhome base vehicle. Hope you get a 'Good one'.

regards Ray

[Mel B]

Phew ... what a day!!!!! 8-)

 

Thanks to everyone for all their comments - it's been great to have your input! :-D

 

We managed to see a Hyundai i10 and took a test drive, but hubby just couldn't get comfortable in the seats so that got ruled out. Unfortunately they were the ones that used to be the Chevrolet agents too, which they don't now offer, but still maintain.

 

So, a bit disheartened we then went and had a look round the 'corral' of dealers' showrooms nearby and their nearly new stock and lo and behold what was sitting there but a pre-registered Chevrolet Spark!!! Registered 30/6/10 with a couple of hundred miles on the clock, in metallic misty lake blue (silvery-blue to you and me!), it was an LS rather than a lower spec'd version, so it still had a 1.0 engine, but with a few more toys on it. We went for a test drive eventually ... when they'd jumped it as the battery was too flat to start it as someone had left the courtesy light on. *-) It drove very well and was nice and quiet, not quiet as quiet as our Renault Megane, but near enough.

 

We decided to have another look at the Twingo which was just across the 'corral' as we were quite taken with it - stonking value for money and a very nice 'solid' car so we had another test drive to see what we thought - still as good as the first time, we also crawled all over it and played with the seats, putting them up, down, getting in/out etc, etc. Before making a final decision though we decided to go home for a late lunch and mull it all over, weighing up the pros and cons for each car and whether our needs would be met or, just as importantly, whether there were things that we really couldn't live with or without.

 

On reflection we decided that one thing we just couldn't do without is 5 doors - we intend to keep the car for quite a long time so we thought that 3 doors would probably drive us nuts and, as we don't have to restrict ourselves in that way and could afford the extra for a 5 door, we ruled out all 3 doors ... which has made the decision easier!!!

 

After hitting the web and checking out the spec and price of the pre-registered Chevrolet Spark with metallic paint (at £7,291) I found some for £300 cheaper (£6,995) and, as the dealer does a price match, printed them off ... this is where it got interesting/confusing! Whilst researching I also spotted a Chevrolet Spark 1.2 LT - which is the top of the range, 6 speed and 81ps instead of the 1.0 litre LS with a 5 speed box and 68ps, the LT also has a few more toys and 15" alloys instead of 14"... for £7,491 ... hmmm. Normal price for a new one with metallic paint is £10,510, so a saving of £3,219! The only downside is that it's 60 miles away but at that price it's worth travelling!!! :-S

 

I won't bore you with the ensuing saga of the messing about this afternoon between dealers ... to cut an extremely long story very, very short so you don't all fall asleep ... we're off tomorrow to Dewsbury to see the Spark and take it for a spin, and if it is as good as it appears to be, bearing in mind that the 1.0 litre was very good anyway, it'll be coming to live in East Yorkshire shortly!!!!

 

Oh, forgot to say, the colour ... errr .... well, I'm a believer in little cars being fun and funky ... and light coloured ... so ... err ... it's green ... cocktail green to be precise ... I'm already thinking of calling it Kermit or Gecko .... :D

 

http://www.chevrolet.co.uk/cars/spark/gallery/exterior.html

[PJay]

Where are the other two doors Mel?

Thought you said 5door car a must (which I totally agree with you)

You may have to co-ordinate your clothes when driving it!

PJay

[BGD]

Green?

 

GREEN?

 

For pities sake, not GREEN!!!!

 

 

 

Anything but green..........................well, at least it'll never ever be stolen.

 

 

 

Or sold again.

Ever.

Even for three quid.

 

 

Green.

 

 

 

 

(Ambles away, muttering............)

[PJay]

Never mind what Bruce says. Love the colour,(Green is my fav) and easy to find in a car park

PJay

[Guest Tracker]

Nice colour Mel - was it stored near Sellafield by any chance?

[Brian Kirby]

Two advantages of that colour.  1.  Greenfly will love it.  2.  Greenfly will love it!

DO NOT PARK THIS CAR ON GRASS, YOU WILL NEVER FIND IT AGAIN!  :-D

[Mel B]

Very funny!!!!! (lol)

 

It's not THAT bad!!!!! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

 

It is a 5 door, in the picture you can just see the bottom of the rear doors near the wheel arch, the handles are actually in the black area at the rear of the door window, so they are disguised to make it look like a 3 door hot hatch - very nicely done it is too!

 

But ... some of you will be glad to hear that we haven't bought it! 8-)

 

It appears that, despite the 'claim' that it has a 5 year warranty on the Chevrolet site, this is one that was registered just before that came into force so it only has the standard 3 year warranty, with none of the freebies which, by the time you add them all up separately to get it to the same 'expected' standard, increase the overall price quite a lot. Oh, and there's no such thing as a 6 speed version either (although I did suspect that that was just a typo! *-)

 

It was a very nice car though and the colour did suit it quite well as it had the sporty bits, rather than just being the base car, but the sales 'lad' obviously thought it was a done deal and didn't like it when we were asking questions and checking the details about the warranty, and in fact he 'took' the warranty book out of my hubby's hands as he was reading it! Cocky little so and so - I could quite happily have kicked him from here to kingdom come but I resisted and we didn't just dismiss the car outright. Then we were then told there was an additional 'admin' fee of £99 on top of the price to cover a background/finance check (the car was direct from Chevrolet!) and road tax ... (it’s FREE in the first year!) we’d just about had enough - I didn’t have any objection to paying for the road tax it if was going to have to be paid for, but when it’s free .... !!!!! We already checked on before so knew for a fact that it was actually optional ... there were stickers everywhere that said so, even one stuck on the car itself, and 2 other dealers had also confirmed that it was optional, but the ‘lad’ and the manager were insistent on it being ‘compulsory’ - this is something that they normally have to pay out when taking in PX cars for which they don’t have a history, so they were just trying to line their pockets for no reason. At this point we decided to go to the car and have a coffee (we’d taken a flask) and check our figures etc and whether we were happy to proceed - if it was the car we wanted and we were happy with the figures etc we weren’t going to let the little pillock put us off! This was especially since we knew full well that even if we bought the car we’d never have to go there again once we’d got it, as it would be looked after locally (we’d checked on that and there wasn’t a problem as they were part of the same company’s dealerships).

 

Eventually we came to the conclusion that, even without the 5 year warranty etc it was still a good price overall ... for someone ... but for us, with the extra costs due to the warranty not being as it appeared to be, it took it well over what we had been wanting to pay, nearer £8,500, rather than £7,291. So we went back in and told the ‘lad’ and the manager, the lad had a real cob on, he was not a happy bunny at all ... no commission for him ... so he was quite flippant about us not buying the car for the sake of a “£99 admin fee” ... he just didn’t see the bigger picture. Fortunately his manager quickly shut him up before he could say any more otherwise I’d have given him a real tongue lashing and advice regarding customer relations!!!! The manager was very pleasant, despite our differing views about the admin fee, but I certainly would NOT go there to look at another car and am going to write to the company to advise them of the ‘compulsion’ to pay for the ‘optional’ fee.

 

So, we had a trip out to Dewsbury ... but came away empty handed, not a problem, it was worth the drive out to be able to drive a 1.2 litre version of the car as there weren’t any others anywhere nearer anyway for us to try. We still very much like the car and I’m not seeing what else is on offer ... I just MIGHT end up with a little ‘gecko’ after all!!!!

 

 

:-D

[Mel B]

It's a flipping minefield out there!!!!

 

After more mooching around the internet we found another Chevrolet Spark, registered a week ago (literally!) so enquired what warranty it had with it ... 3 years ... hmmmmm, the 5 year "all singing all dancing" warranty was supposed to be on all new cars registered since 8 July 2010 ... it is, says the dealer, but NOT including any registered by a dealer after that date so they only have the standard 3 year warranty. Very misleading and confusing, although they seem to have updated their website to make it a bit clearer now its just a shame that some of the dealers selling these cars don't have a clue. *-) But, you CAN pay for an extended warranty for £300 which will take it to 5 years (not quite as good as the 'proper' 5 year one though) ... downside is you can ONLY then take it back to a Chevrolet dealer, rather than a Vauxhall garage (part of the GM group who own Chevrolet) as you can with the 'proper' warranty ... we haven't got a Chevrolet dealer in our area now! *-)

 

Sooooo, the upshot is, we're hanging fire for now and will have a shuftie again to see what'around later in the year - if someone has bought one, ie an actual CUSTOMER, since 8 July 2010 and then decided they don't want it any more it SHOULD have the 5 year warranty ... but I'm not holding my breath! 8-)

 

... but there is still the cheap green one I suppose ...... :D :$ (lol)

[PJay]

Mel don't give up. You may find towards the end of August, some good deals, as the dealers may be offloading, ready for the new Sept reg.

 

[dikyenfo]

A quick update on the latest offerings from Suzuki with the new Alto ) quid road tax 74 to the gall and 5 doors & air con for I think 7600 quid.

[Mel B]

Hi dik

 

The Alto SZ2 is £6995 as there is a £660 discount at the moment, but to get the aircon it would have to be the Alto SZ3 at £8170 so there's quite a difference.

 

Nice looking car but probably a bit on the small side, not by much granted.

[Brian Kirby]

You seen this Mel?  http://tinyurl.com/od4kb

Sure you really want a Chevrolet?  I'm not sure whether you'll ever get to take advantage of that 5 year warranty after reading that history!  'Strewth, what a track record!