Nationwide may not be free anymore

[w1ntersun]

Please read this re charges

 

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/travel/cheap-travel-money

[sshortcircuit]

I understand what the "expert" is saying, but thats not what the Halifax web site says or what I was told in my local BoS branch.

 

Will need to apply for one and take it from there.

 

Edit

 

The T&Cs are as clear as mud with charges being N/A and then a range according to your banking record.

[net-traveller]

re Halifax Clarity.

 

This looks a better option however having just called Halifax and asked questions they couldn't answer I am waiting for a call back with the answers.

 

The specific question is which exchange rate do you apply to the foreign transactions? They don't have the answer but they will ask the application department and possibly Mastercard and get back to me.

 

I will post the answer here when I get it.

 

It may well be that NW using the bank exchange rate + handling fees will be a better bet than Halifax using tourist rate without additional fees + 1% cash advance.

 

Whichever card you consider to replace NW do ask the question I did as the difference between the 2 rates is about 5%.

 

 

 

[hymer1942]

Thats exactly how I see it. Barrie

[Andy_C]

net-traveller - 2010-08-03 12:24 PM

 

re Halifax Clarity.

 

This looks a better option however having just called Halifax and asked questions they couldn't answer I am waiting for a call back with the answers.

 

The specific question is which exchange rate do you apply to the foreign transactions? They don't have the answer but they will ask the application department and possibly Mastercard and get back to me.

 

I will post the answer here when I get it.

 

It may well be that NW using the bank exchange rate + handling fees will be a better bet than Halifax using tourist rate without additional fees + 1% cash advance.

 

Whichever card you consider to replace NW do ask the question I did as the difference between the 2 rates is about 5%.

I'd be interested in their answer. As it's a Mastercard I assume the rate would be Mastercard's wholesale rate, which I think is the same or marginally better than the Visa Europe wholesale rate which is what NW use as far as I can tell.

 

Andy

[smifee]

I have had all my accounts with Nationwide for many years.

 

Today started to close them all. Have gone to Halifax for current account. They have paid me £50 for switching and I will get £5 each month as I pay £1000 in every month. So am £110 better off in the first year.

 

Took out a Halifax Clarity card and will use it and the current account debit card to withdraw cash, to find the charges, on next trip. Not till Nov/Dec when going Xmas shopping in Nancy. Have tried the terms & conditions and my head hurts (lol).

 

ISAs & savings accounts next.

[Bulletguy]

Brian Kirby - 2010-07-31 6:45 PM

 

If all the smarty-pants who have done this had transferred their banking to Nationwide, so that nationwide also benefitted, it is probable neither fee, nor commission, would now be being withdrawn.  If folk want to take, they have to give.  Nationwide is one of the few mutuals left, it can't afford free-loaders any more than any other commercial organisation can.

 

To a degree Brian I agree.......but not entirely.

 

Banks and Building Societies will use ANY method they can to entice people AWAY from their current Bank/BS. Once they have you, you are simply no more than 'another number'. In other words, they are the ones 'taking' and you end up giving.

 

The 'smarty pants' as you put it actually do transfer their banking.....but now Nationwide have got what they set out for, increased custom, they shift the goal posts.

 

Nothing to do with 'free loaders'.....it's more about how Banks operate.

 

The REAL 'smarty pants' will spend their time scouring banking 'deals' and shift their money in and out from one place to another all the time, never letting the Bank call the tune. Of course, it also helps if you are pretty adept with figures and percentages etc.

[Tony Jones]

Bulletguy - 2010-08-03 8:36 PM

 

The REAL 'smarty pants' will spend their time scouring banking 'deals' and shift their money in and out from one place to another all the time, never letting the Bank call the tune. Of course, it also helps if you are pretty adept with figures and percentages etc.

 

Not to mention plenty of time on your hands! However I do agree that's the only way to "win" in the casino we call a banking system.

[KeithR]

i have always been of the opinion that banks made their money by investing/lending the money that was deposited with them.

the more customers they enticed, the more money to play with.

but as time progressed it seems more and more 'charges' were instituted, and frequently raised. there seems to be a charge for every action, so isnt the profit from the money deposited with them just that, profit? giving them the year on year record profits? perhaps simplistic (or wrong!!!) but i dont see myself as a freeloader, i give them my money and they use it as they see fit to make a profit. im always in credit because although they dont give me anything for borrowing my money, they charge me if i borrow theirs!??

[Bulletguy]

Tony Jones - 2010-08-03 9:45 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2010-08-03 8:36 PM

 

The REAL 'smarty pants' will spend their time scouring banking 'deals' and shift their money in and out from one place to another all the time, never letting the Bank call the tune. Of course, it also helps if you are pretty adept with figures and percentages etc.

 

Not to mention plenty of time on your hands! However I do agree that's the only way to "win" in the casino we call a banking system.

 

Precisely Tony. This is what a friend of mine does but he took early retirement at 53 and has always had a good head with figures.

 

I'd stuck with the same Bank for years until he told me I was being plain daft when Halifax offered £100 to anyone opening an account with them a few years ago. As he put it.....can you afford to turn down £100 someone is GIVING you? I didn't need persuading any longer.

 

As soon as they stopped paying interest on the current accounts, I did the same as he did and shifted my business elsewhere and just left a fiver in my Halifax account to keep it open.

[Brian Kirby]

w1ntersun - 2010-07-31 10:06 PM Brian I have to disagree with this. I had 3 cash ISA,s with Nationwide at 6.15% and when they came up for renwal they affered only 2.75% at the time. I moved to another bank offering 4.14%. Should I have been loyal and supported them NO WAY. Banks are there to serve us and I will move to the best supplier of the services I want and if Nationwide lose trade as a result TOUGH. Richard

That was not quite what I meant - my fault, mea culpa - and it does seem to have ruffled a few feathers.  In your circumstances, I should have done exactly the same. 

What I was (unsuccessfully :-)) referring to was the practice that was being advocated a while back - no longer possible because the conditions have tightened - of opening the account, getting the card, reducing the balance to the minimum, and then feeding the account just before a trip, using the free withdrawal facility when abroad, and then taking the balance back to the minimum on return.  That, in my opinion, was taking unreasonable advantage of a facility that was not intended to be exploited in that way, and when I read the posts suggesting it as a clever wheeze I thought it would be only a matter of time before the inevitable happened.  Now it has. 

Some will say that was NW's fault for allowing the situation to exist, others will claim it was all a carefully calculated ploy on their part to gain more "weight" on the high street that just went a bit wrong.  Who knows, and NW won't be telling?! 

They are still a mutual, they are a bit fuddy duddy, they generally answer the 'phone quite quickly, they have UK call centres, and, as a generalisation, you don't have to read everything they say with your head on backwards to see where the balance of advantage lies.  Notwithstanding, they are sorely trying my patience at present because they have withdrawn interest on the Flex Account, propose "giving" me a wholly useless and unwanted travel insurance that I can't get value from, withdrawn the cash reward cards for new applicants, withdrawn the free use of debit cards abroad, reduced their interest rates generally while claiming industry beating levels (or some such tripe!) and increased their loan rates to the lowest available (manifestly incorrect so far as I can see). 

Like Clive, I'm struggling a bit to understand how the banks generally, and NW, can plead poverty when the spread between what they pay on deposits (about 2.5%), and what they charge on loans (about 7.5%), is around 5% (with a "bank rate" of just 0.5%). 

In 1960 deposits paid around 3.4%, mortgages were around 5.9% (while base rate hovered between 5% and 6%).  That gave a spread of about 2.5%, out of which the banks lived profitably, bank managers managed branches and drove home in Rovers, and employees had preferential loans and final salary pensions. 

Now, with the spread double that figure, the managers have gone, the loans have gone, and the final salary pensions have gone.  The banks still make profits OK, but what is the basis for believing this is particularly clever when they have cut staff, cut branches, cut services, cut overheads, and doubled the difference between what the charge on loans and what they pay on deposits?  Chimpanzees come to mind!

[w1ntersun]

Brian no offence taken I like good discusion and this thread has produced it

[Bulletguy]

Though the guy has a tendency to grind at my nerves a bit, many people have Martin Lewis to thank a lot for. People like myself who are not particularly clever at 'money management', Lewis helped to simplify money matters and wake a lot of folk up.

 

He brought to the attention of the humble 'little people'....the ordinary 'man in the street' that Banks and BS's are NOT your best friends....they want you as a customer so they can USE YOUR MONEY. So I have no qualms about making a few quid by shifting from one Bank/BS to another, something i've only actually done once anyway but if I had more time I would do it more often. Banks have been practising this for years with money that wasn't even theirs to gamble with, but in the millions and some cases undoubtedly billions.

 

I don't have a problem with ANYONE 'using' Banking to make a few quid for themselves, but what I DO have a problem with is folk who have lived in cloud cuckoo land racking up massive debt they can never re-pay, maxing out streams of credit cards.....all for what? To impress the neighbours with expensive vehicles standing in the drive?

 

A good example of this farcical world some people seem to indulge in recently drove a man to murder his wife and two children and then hang himself. Apparently they had massive debt problems. But standing in the driveway were two expensive vehicles. WHY??? A decent car can now easily be bought for a grand or even less. Might not have the "right" number plates on or be quite as shiny as the guy next door......but he will be paying for his on credit and you will OWN yours. Big difference.

 

People blame the Banks for this. I blame the plonkers daft enough to go out buying on credit.

 

As a young lad my Dad used to say to me whenever he saw me drooling over some expensive toy in a shop window, "stick your hand in your pocket son and see if you have enough money for it". Harsh maybe, but it taught me to never ever live off credit.

 

[747]

After following this thread, I have become extremely puzzled that anyone can believe that you can increase your savings by any significant amount by using Banks.

 

Tax free schemes have a bit of an edge because you get a tax free return and instant access if you need it in an emergency. With inflation, most accounts are paying lower percentages than that, so you are losing money.

 

As for the change in the NW account, if you have looked after the Pounds, a small change in Pence is neither here nor there.

 

Whatever you decide with your money, do not use a `professional`, he is just after the best commission. If you want to invest in the Market, never use a Banking institution that only has a limited number of schemes. My latest venture is via The Skipton Building Society. Their investment arm is very comprehensive and I have no complaints. I went into the market when it was rock bottom and so the only way is up. Timing is very important.

[Porky]

Brian Kirby - 2010-08-04 5:25 PMI'm struggling a bit to understand how the banks generally, and NW, can plead poverty when the spread between what they pay on deposits (about 2.5%), and what they charge on loans (about 7.5%), is around 5% (with a "bank rate" of just 0.5%). 

In 1960 deposits paid around 3.4%, mortgages were around 5.9% (while base rate hovered between 5% and 6%).  That gave a spread of about 2.5%, out of which the banks lived profitably, bank managers managed branches and drove home in Rovers, and employees had preferential loans and final salary pensions. 

Now, with the spread double that figure, the managers have gone, the loans have gone, and the final salary pensions have gone.  The banks still make profits OK, but what is the basis for believing this is particularly clever when they have cut staff, cut branches, cut services, cut overheads, and doubled the difference between what the charge on loans and what they pay on deposits?  Chimpanzees come to mind!

Seen the figures out today for LLoyds? There will be others. Make anything you can where you can. Loyalty means nothing to Banks. As said above it is the spread of difference they thrive on and there is no way we can change that. How many people out there have made money from Building Societies becoming banks, and buying a property off plan to make a killing? Time we stopped kidding ourselves. I am a Lloyds and Nationwide customer so I feel able to take the moral high ground. We also have a West Bromwich Building Society over 50s income account but wherever you look low risk = low return and vice versa and so it will always be.

[net-traveller]

net-traveller - 2010-08-03 12:24 PM

 

re Halifax Clarity.

 

The specific question is which exchange rate do you apply to the foreign transactions? They don't have the answer but they will ask the application department and possibly Mastercard and get back to me.

 

I will post the answer here when I get it.

 

 

I haven't received an answer so I presume that I have totally confused them. Don't expect an answer now.

 

[Derek Uzzell]

net-traveller - 2010-08-07 2:46 PM

 

net-traveller - 2010-08-03 12:24 PM

 

re Halifax Clarity.

 

The specific question is which exchange rate do you apply to the foreign transactions? They don't have the answer but they will ask the application department and possibly Mastercard and get back to me.

 

I will post the answer here when I get it.

 

 

I haven't received an answer so I presume that I have totally confused them. Don't expect an answer now.

 

 

I’m guessing that you asked Halifax your exchange-rate question because you were under the impression that some UK credit card providers used a ‘bank’ exchange rate, while others used a lower ‘tourist’ rate. This seems to be a popular belief (and I’ve even seen it claimed on credible commercial websites) but it ain’t so.

 

The reality is well explained on:

 

http://www.creditchoices.co.uk/credit-card-exchange-rates-ask-our-expert.html

 

I remember this coming up on this forum ages ago when people were comparing exchange rates shown on their bank/credit-card statements relating to their card usage abroad. It used to be the case (and may well still be so for all I know) that card providers that imposed a currency-exchange loading when the card was used abroad would not show that loading as a separate charge on the statement. Instead, the exchange rate figure that was shown on the statement had already had the loading ‘invisibly’ applied to it.

 

If you use the link given on the creditchoices website I mentioned above

 

http://www.corporate.visa.com/pd/consumer_services/consumer_ex_rates.jsp

 

you’ll see that the 08/08/2010 euro/GBP exchange rate given for a ‘no foreign loading’ Visa card today is:

 

1 Euro = 0.830666 British Pound

 

However, if you apply a foreign-usage loading fee of 2.75% (an average charge for credit cards), then the exchange rate worsens to:

 

1 Euro = 0.853509 British Pound

 

If a credit-card statement doesn’t separately state the loading fee that has been applied to each foreign transaction, but just adjusts the exchange rate figure to reflect the loading fee that has been applied, then, if you compare that figure with the exchange rate shown on a statement for a ‘no loading fee’ card, you may think your card is using a lower ‘tourist’ exchange rate and the other card a higher ‘bank’ exchange rate. However, it’s the loading fee that’s doing the damage, not the underlying exchange rate that (everything else being equal) will have been the same for both cards. So, as far as UK credit/debit card usage abroad is concerned, you don’t really need to worry about the underlying exchange rate, but you do need to concern yourself with what fees/interest may be applied when you use the card.

 

It’s also worth looking at

 

http://www.which.co.uk/advice/travel-money/index.jsp

 

[Andy_C]

One of the issues here is that whilst the Visa rates are quite easy to find, it's much harder to find the corresponding rates used by Mastercard (which the Halifax Clarity is).

 

I've found this page: https://www.mastercard.com/us/personal/en/cardholderservices/currencyconversion/index.html however the FAQ states "Those published rates do not include the MasterCard currency conversion assessment (CCA)"

 

It appears that there may be additional charges of:

Mastercard Issuer Cross-Border Assessment fee of 0.8% plus Mastercard Currency Conversion Assessment fee of 0.2% which are not included in those rates.

 

It's all a clear as mud...

 

Andy

[chas]

Lets all enjoy the wonderful diverse scenery and weather patterns of our own country, said by many wise travelled folk to be the best in the world.

 

Let the greedy money making banks recoil in horror when they see this ploy to exploit travel money uses will not work as they thought it would.

 

Support our own travel industry, and let the johnie foreigers get on with their own strange ways of living and eating. :D :D :D

[747]

Hey chas,

 

Wash your mouth out with soapy water.

 

How can I get piece and quiet if all of these idiots on here stay at home all year. 8-)

 

I have to avoid the nice areas during the Summer months and now the rest of the year could be ruined.

 

If they do not find another Bank soon, I will be selling my van. :'(

[bazooka]

From nov 1 Nationwide will charge 2% per transaction plus 1% for each withdrawl ,still claim to be cheapest

Baz

[spospe]

Baz, a small slip of the pen; it is 2% plus £1 per transaction.

[bazooka]

Thanks for the correction Spospe

Baz :-D

[Vernon B]

"Notwithstanding, they (NW) are sorely trying my patience at present because they have withdrawn interest on the Flex Account, propose "giving" me a wholly useless and unwanted travel insurance that I can't get value from, withdrawn the cash reward cards for new applicants, withdrawn the free use of debit cards abroad, reduced their interest rates generally while claiming industry beating levels (or some such tripe!) and increased their loan rates to the lowest available (manifestly incorrect so far as I can see)." QUOTE FROM BRIAN EARLIER

 

Now that's more like it Brian nice to have you back on board!

 

Being far more cynical than yourself about the inner workings of the financial services industry I have no doubt that Nationwide has timed its change in policy to co-incide with the improvement in the £/E exchange rate thereby expecting most folks to fail to notice the 2%/£1 on cost this time round.

 

And there is little doubt that banks and building societies have taken a leaf out of the pages of the mobile phone industry's "guide to transparency" by producing charges and tariff structures designed to confuse rather than help the public make informed choices.

 

But that's all by the by; what would be useful now is an answer to the simply question "where or how do we motorhomers get the most euros for our £s?"

 

So Martin Lewis aside, here's hoping you will put your considerable intellect to that question Brian and share your conclusions with us as usual.

 

V

 

PS

With regard to your other observation "I'm struggling a bit to understand how the banks generally, and NW, can plead poverty when the spread between what they pay on deposits (about 2.5%), and what they charge on loans (about 7.5%), is around 5% (with a "bank rate" of just 0.5%)." let me offer an explanation

 

Firstly, and to be fair, the major part of NW's funds come from the money market at rates much higher than those paid to depositors. Secondly a very large slice of the "spread" goes to fund lavish offices, branches, and head quarters and corporate entertaining and publicity. Then a very considerable sum goes on generous salaries and benefits. And I'm not talking fat cats here - on average, financial services jobs are paid 20%+ more than their equivalent in other sectors of the economy.

 

V

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

What I seem to remember reading some time ago, was that NW got their fingers burnt rather more badly that they wanted to admit, with some silly securities investments that, if not in the US, were US linked.  They have tried to keep it rather quiet, but as a consequence they have needed to re-build their balance sheet just like all the others.  Being a mutual, I think they are not subject to quite the same scrutiny as the banks generally, but will undoubtedly have to declare the results at AGM time.  Thus, I think they may presently be engaged in a bit of a pre-AGM damage limitation exercise, under cover of all the banks doing exactly the same thing.  I guess also that if they set their rates too far out of line they will simply suck in slabs of cash from the banks, which, as there is relatively little movement in the housing market, they would be unable to sustain through their mortgage rates/new loans.  What I want to know is, if the above is anywhere near truth, whether and when they will get back to something nearer their previous much more favourable offer, or whether they are, in effect, on the skids.