New Chassis and Cab or Scrap?

[Rayjsj]

Christena,

Hope the cab rebuild quote is reasonable, I recommend this site for helpful tips about your base vehicle, incl. power steering/tips to minmize heavy steering/gearchange mods etc., It certainly helped me anyway: http://www.jktowers.fsnet.co.uk/motorhome/

 

Good Luck Ray

[Guest Tracker]

Christena - 2010-08-03 11:54 AM

Keep in mind, I viewed a 10 year old Hymer, which was £19,999 and the living quarters were no better than the Hobby. So to me it makes no sense to spend that kind of money if a few thousand will put the one I have right. Value has nothing to do with it.

 

A 10 year old Hymer will be based on the later Peugeot Boxer / Fiat Ducato Sevel chassis - unless it's a Merc - either of which will probably have power steering and will drive and perform much better than the old Talbot Express / Ducato it replaced in 1993(ish) as well as being much less prone to rusty chassis syndrome?

 

Actually value does have a lot to do with it! If you can resurect a rusty van worth potentially almost nothing as it is and update the mechanicals you need to update for the outlay of a few thousand pounds it makes absolute sense to me as long as you love the layout you have and the van in general and have no desire to switch to a different layout?

 

After all if you buy another van from a dealer his profit alone will be several thousand pounds which you would only discover if you wanted to change it after a short period, followed by annual depreciation of a thousand or two?

 

Set against that scenario several thousand pounds on a refurb to get a good looking and reliable van worth at least what it will have cost to resurect - with luck - sounds like a bit of a bargain to me and I admire your nerve for doing it and wish yoy every success!

 

Please let us know how it goes!

[Christena]

thanks lads...

 

This way I feel my conscience is clear, and I can sleep at nights....lol

 

If the mechanic comes back to me and says its not repairable, then at least I will have done all I can. And all it will have cost me is the transportation costs.

 

Should that happen, I will then look at the Hymer again.. although I have to admit, I love the look of the Hobby, so maybe its time to start doing the lottery... and a nice Hobby 750 fse could come my way...some chance....hahaha

 

I cant thank you all enough for the support, and encouragement, I didnt know where to turn on Sunday, and everyone who replied, gave me a new insight into the problem, and helped me make the right decision.

 

 

[Guest pelmetman]

Hi Christina,

 

We have a 20 year old camper and as we inherited it we have a very strong emotional attachment to it :-D

 

I also have a 10 year old works van which came back from the bodyworks yesterday and looks like new :-D

 

So get some quotes and you will probably find you need to spend 2 or 3k to get it sorted, but to get something similar will cost 10k in good condition.

 

Best of luck

[Mel B]

You might also want to consider contacting the Classic Camper Club too as I'm sure their members would be able to offer you lots of help and advice and maybe where to get it done more cheaply than a 'standard' garage:

 

http://classiccamperclub.tripod.com/

[Christena]

Thank You Dave Sue & Troy.. the chocolate lab, for the support. Its good to know others have gone this route and achieved the dream.

 

And thank you too Mel B.. I have visited that site and intend to join, I have been hanging onto my pennies, as I think I am going to need as many as I can find.... :-D :-D But I will join..

 

And.. Im glad to know others are out there who form emotional attachments to their campers too..

 

Funny, I have never developed the habit of calling it a Motorhome, as that somehow doesnt sound right, its not familiar enough, she's our camper...lol

 

 

[flicka]

Hi Christena

Check the Classic Camper website first, there are some links not working for me.

Suggest an e-mail to them first.

 

If your chosen repairer(s) come back with figures that are too high for you, the Hobby could still raise some funds for a replacement (via e-bay or pre-loved, etc.) as there are many out there who have the refurb skills & love to tinker themselves.

 

Good luck

[Brian Kirby]

Christena - 2010-08-02 7:14 PM ............. Brian, you told me to stop giving her a persona, which I said was hard to do, can I explain another reason I feel so strongly about it... When we bought it, it was from the widow of the previous owner, who had obviously great pride in his motorhome, so much so, he even interpreted all the German manuals into English in case they should be needed. Thats the sort of thing my own father would have done, and as such I do feel an obligation to him to do the best for this Hobby.. ..........!

No criticism was intended Christena, so no justifications needed for what you call your van.  It's just that there was a note of fondness in your post, and emotional attachments to lumps of tin are not, as Spock would have said, logical.  Nice, even understandable, just not logical!  You call it/her/him (I somehow always see Hobbys as masculine - something like Helmut, or Heinrich :-)) whatever you choose.  However, the only reason for my quip was that this could get expensive, and is very much an area where the head needs to rule the heart.  I have no axe to grind, and if your decision is to restore the van come what may, then I truly wish you every success in doing so.

I must say it is a bit of a looker in the photo, so would be quite a show stopper if done well.  I hope your body repairer gives you a proper estimate for all the work, so far as they can reasonably assess it.  There is a tendency for firms to give a slightly vague price to start the ball rolling, and then to keep on "finding" things that also need doing, so the cost just goes up and up.  I'd suggest, if I may, agreeing what you want doing before anyone starts, getting a detailed written description of what that should be (or writing same yourself), getting a price for doing just that, and agreeing an hourly rate for any extras, that can only be used with your written agreement, against a fixed time limit.  Then, if additional works becomes apparent you can get an estimate of time and pay at the agreed rate, or simply decide to park the item to be carried out at a future date.  I'd also, but depending on what the inspections reveal, to split the work into identifiable discrete packages, agree separate prices for each, instruct the first, get it finished, inspect it, and if satisfied pay for it, and then move to the next package.  Hopefully, it will not prove that complicated, but it helps to keep costs under control, and everyone knows a) that they aren't running up huge bills that cause embarrassment when it comes to pay time, and b) that the standard will be monitored as work proceeds as a condition of further work.  Once you get mutual confidence and understanding the guards can come down a bit but I think it is probably a good place to start from.

BTW, if its anything like ours, I suspect a lot of that blue will turn out to be transfers, rather than paint, so it may be difficult to match/replicate if that is required.  Have you tried Hobby UK, to see if the factory can still help with such items?

[Christena]

Thanks Flicka and Brian, all sound advice.

 

Brian, I didnt take it as criticism at all, you are right, I shouldnt hold such emotional ties to a piece of metal. I just wanted to explain why I did so.

 

We women are complex creatures you know...lol

 

I was raised to have a conscience, and it rules me, I once received help from an animal charity for a stray cat, and since then have worked for them as a volunteer, to pay back.

 

Yesterday I had to spend a lot of time ringing around again, as the original company who were to collect her and inspect the bodywork, went to the storage place, but didnt have a vehicle big enough.

 

Finding a recovery service was easy, but having to find a new coachworks, who were not going to charge me an hourly rate, was not so easy.

 

However, through the garage I bought my last car from, I spoke to a nice lad who was prepared to take it, and inspect it without any pressure, and if all was ok, take it on as a bit of a 'project'.

 

And thats the kind of person I was searching for. Of course he has to make money out of it, but he is the kind of person, who also takes pleasure from bringing something back to its prime.

 

So, if it passes the inspection, then I think it will be with him for some time, and rather than face a massive bill at the end, I will arrange to pay him for work done, as we go along. That way, should I need time to save up, it wont be a problem..

 

STOP PRESS

 

The lad has just been on the phone, inner wings and chassis are ok ! whoohoo !!!!

 

The bumper needs welding, where it appears the storage folk towed it to the lane they dumped it in, but other than that, it needs no other welding.

 

It needs a new bonnet, but thanks to the links you guys have posted, I can point him in the right direction for that !

 

So, he is going to have a more detailed look at it later, but so far it all sounds FANTASTIC !!!

 

Can you tell Im happy ?

 

 

[flicka]

So pleased for your possitive result, Christena.

Looks like you may be back on the road sooner than you thought possible.

But please make sure the tyres, brakes & clutch are checked & replaced if necessary.

[Christena]

Hi Flicka, yes I will make sure that all mechanics are A OK before getting her back on the road, but its going to take a while yet, to get her to that stage.

 

She will need an MOT anyway, so all those things will have to be checked prior to that being done.

 

Im working with the supposition that she wont be back on the road till next Spring, but you never know, if things keep positive, then it could be an Autumn Trip to the Lakes... Oh wouldnt that be fantastic !

 

[Mike88]

With labour rates at around £50 an hour there is always a danger when embarking on a renovation that you will never know the final cost. You get more and more sucked in.

 

The more you look the more you find so you could get an initial estimate of a couple of thousand but this could muliply exponentially as work progresses. So far so good but this renovation sounds as though it could be very very expensive especially if you think its going to take many months to complete.

 

Welding is often a temporary solution as the rust will re-occur each year.

[Brian Kirby]

Christena, does this "lad" adequately know his way around motorhomes, their equipment, and the way they are put together, and will the van will be under cover (barn or similar) while to work is carried out?  Simply stated, although the cab and oily bits will be similar to a car, not much else will, so unless he really knows and understands the sealants, plastics, framing methods, electrical, gas, and water systems, and assembly techniques used, and is aware of the extreme difficulty in sourcing any body spares (including the aforementioned transfers) he may come badly unstuck - at your expense!  I'm not implying dishonesty of any kind, simply typically laddish over-confidence.  Unless he really knows what he is letting himself in for, he may simply flounder and be unable to cope.  If all he is doing is looking at the mechanicals, fine, but otherwise, I has me doubts!

An essential starting point, before going any further with refurbishment, is a thorough damp check.  So called coachbuilt motorhomes of the vintage of yours are most likely to have timber framed bodywork with aluminium outer panels and ply or MDF inner skins, with the gaps filled in with expanded polypropylene, or similar, insulant.  Those outer panels have various joints at junctions between walls and roof (probably aluminium sheet), and the overcab moulding and the rear wall (probably GRP).  The joints are sealed, (Hobby now use a tape, but I doubt if they did 24 years ago) over which large cover mouldings are applied and further sealed with a mastic sealant.  These sealants have improved hugely over those 24 years, and the original sealant is liable to have dried and cracked, allowing water to penetrate.  In addition, the windows, access traps, and door, are all cut through the panels and are sealed around with some kind of mastic.  The same potential problem exists, that the mastics dry out and crack, letting water in.  Because of the form of construction used, even quite small amounts of water, over even a quite a short period of time, will allow rot to develop.  The water is trapped between the skins of the wall, and the frame begins to rot.  By the time the wet is visible inside the van, whole chunks of frame can have rotted to the point at which new frames are required.  This means removing the aluminium skin.  We are now into sheet metal working and joinery.  This is a HUGE undertaking, requiring far more than a mechanic's skills, and more than one person to complete.  The only way to be sure no leakage has commenced is careful checking with a moisture meter, used by someone who understands the significance of the readings.  If it tests dry, the next step is an inch by inch inspection of all the joints for missing, cracked, or brittle sealant.  If this is found, the cover mouldings must be removed, all old sealant cleaned off, and the mouldings re-fixed with new sealant of the right kind.  Again, this is not a one man job.

With my sincere apologies for being impertinent, I still think the heart is ruling the head, and the head needs to be very firmly in charge of this venture!

[mike 202]

Just a thought, why don't you get the engine running which should be fairly easy. Then with the engine running and a charged battery, alternator, lights, winkers, windscreen wipers, horn etc should work. Next have it taken to a garage for an MOT, obviously it will fail but at least for the cost of an MOT (full cost or cheap and discounted) you will have an experts list of what it fails on.

This will give you a cost to get a running platform, then the rest is more simple, because if it wont go then even a brand new body is not going anywhere.

I am only trying to be helpfull and not damper your Happiness and am concerned that you will have to pay for any work and not DIY. Brian is very experienced and his comments, in my opinion carry good advice. So please be carefull how you commit your funds and do it in such a way that if you have to pull the plug then you can afford the loss.

 

Mike

[euroserv]

Another angle on this, from someone who knows little about the bodywork of these vehicles is to set your sights quite low.

 

The way I see it is that if you can get the base vehicle through an MOT for a reasonable sum, and the bodywork is not going to imminently self destruct, why not just enjoy it and treat it as a reasonably waterproof tent because even if the windows leak a bit, and you get the odd trickle of water after driving in a downpour it is still going to be a beter place to spend the night than some B&B's!

 

This way you will prove that you still have the desire to get out there with your camper. It did sit idle for a long time, didn't it?

 

At the moment it is worth very little, and to spend the kind of money that would be necessary to bring it back to it's former glory makes little sense because it may be more that it will be worth.

 

If at least you can prove that the mechanicals are good, then if the rest becomes too daunting there are many chassis out there in need of vital organs, and yours may help other less fortunate but more viable vehicles to live.

 

And then I went and got all sentimental....

 

Nick

[Christena]

Thanks for all the input guys, again, its much appreciated.

 

The lad, whose name is Gary, specialises in Motorhomes.

 

He has just phoned again, this time with a more detailed update.

 

Chassis is in good condition, as are inner wings. Panels are all fairly good, But he suggests we start by getting the engine running, and replace the timing belt and battery. Which I am in full agreement with.

 

I take your points about checking with a dampmeter, which is something I will discuss with him.

 

All I can tell you at this stage, is that he has checked the vehicle inside and out and is happy with it, and happy that it wont cost the earth to get it back into shape.

 

I have already spoken to the Caravan Clinic who are going to check out interior goods and heating, but they cannot do anything until the vehicle is MOT passed.

 

euroserv.. I agree with you 100% and considering the bedding etc that has been stored inside for the last 3 years, has no damp marks, or smells, Im reasonably happy its not sprung any leaks.

 

our first camper was an old Bedford, that I bought off ebay for less than a £1,000, and we loved it, it was great fun.

 

This one only cost us £9,000 or so 6 or 7 years ago.

 

Saturday I saw an 89 Eldis, which had been hand painted, for sale for £8,995, so as I see it, the least I have here is a part exchange in the region of £5 - £6000 maybe more, who knows.. But hopefully, she will stay with us and be enjoyed.

 

Oh yes, he is going to check if we can add power steering, if so, it will be like all my birthdays have come at once...lol

 

[747]

Just a note for people who do not understand the Queen`s English (Northern Version)

 

A `lad` can be of any age. I am 63 and people still refer to me as a lad. Given that the North East of England was the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, I suspect that this `lad` will be a highly skilled artisan.

 

This is not a criticism of anyone born south of Darlington. To us, they are virtually Frenchmen. :D

 

I am really pleased for you Christena. It might work out well for you after all.

[Christena]

Hi 747... yes its beginning to sound positive ...must be all those vibes we are all sending out..

 

Yes I forget not everyone is au fait with our Northerners terms..haha

 

Gary, the 'Lad' is I would guess mid to late 30's with a fair few employees working for him, especially judging by the noise in the background, who are currently working on 4 Motorhomes at once, so not a tiny business either.

 

But, thankfully he isnt charging me by hourly rate, as such, he took this on as a project, and will only work on it as and when he can, but he seems positive that it wont take too much to get it into shape..

[Mel B]

Hi Christena :-D

 

Before you do anything else, try to get a price off the 'lad', he may be all that you say, but you really DO need to know what the likely cost is going to be before you start the work.

 

As an aside, our first motorhome was a Commer Autosleeper pop-top conversion. It had stood for 2 years as the owner had died and the family had been waiting for probate to be completed. The 'van had been the owners from new, with 52,000 miles on, and it was put up for sale at a set price of £495 to be sold to the first people who wanted it. Fortunately we were the first 'serious' buyers and quickly inspected it and said we'd have it. At the time we knew that to get anything of a similar age and condition would cost us double that. But, as it had stood the engine and brakes were seized, the clutch was knackered - it needed tyres, brake cylinders, etc, etc, etc, fortunately it didn't leak and the habitation side was in extremely good condition for its age and just needed a good clean from being stood for so long.

 

It cost us about another £500 or so to get it back on the road including fitting a tow bar, but we were very, very strict with the chap doing the work as we had very little money so he did it in chunks, as and when he wasn't busy with other work, which helped keep the labour cost down. Before he started he gave us an estimate of what it would cost and he stuck to it. We had it for a year or so and loved every minute of it, it really turned heads at classic vehicle shows and one chap, who was forever drooling over it, eventually bought it from us for £1700.

 

Fortunately you already own the van so anything you do to it shouldn't cost you more than the total value of it, but you really DO need to make sure of that before works start ... you don't want a money pit. I doubt if it will be ready for an autumn run unless the chap spends a lot of time on it, in which case the labour costs could be high - by fitting work on our van in between other paid work, thereby only doing work on it when he would otherwise had 'downtime', it kept him ticking along and the cost low, so we were both happy. :-D

[lennyhb]

Our Brian does paint a black picture, yes what he says is basicly true but as Nick says if you can get it on the road get out there and enjoy.

 

If it has a significant amount of damp you would notice the horrible musty smell the instant you step into it so it's probably reasonably OK.

 

Damp is not quite as bad to repair as Brian says you can usually do it from the inside by stripping off the wallboard, drying out & repair/replace rotten framework and fit new wallboard not forgetting to reseal external seams. I've done it myself on a leaky Lunar caravan.

If it does have any damp any Caravan or Motorhome workshop who are used to dealing with British built vans will be used to doing that sort of job because British ones always leak.

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

Yes, I know!  Not trying to put Christena off, just on her guard against her infectious enthusiasm getting the upper hand.  Trouble is, I've spent too many years mucking around on historic buildings.  Similar range of problems - but MUCH more expensive to fix!  Once you start you have the proverbial tiger by his tail!!  I'll try to be a little ray of sunshine from now on.  :-)

[Christena]

:-) No Brian, no Rays of Sunshine please...hahaha

 

This entire thread has been so helpful, why? because its been balanced, so lets keep it that way.

 

MelB I cant get a price yet, as he wants to concentrate on getting it serviced first, so costs of panels etc., have not been researched and so on.

 

I had a good talk to him yesterday, and I explained my situation, and that I am not a money pit, and that a I had a budget of £2,000 to put her right.. and even that had to be paid out in dribs and drabs as various jobs were complete.

 

I personally have a figure in my head of £3,000 to get her back on the road. But I also realise that if that figure looks as though it may be exceeded, the whole thing will need to be re assessed.

 

I promise, I will be keeping an eye on the situation, but my heart does rule my head. Saying that, I dont use a credit card, so I can only spend what I have.

 

 

[Guest Tracker]

Good luck and I still feel that if you can inject up to about £4000 into the van and get a vehicle you can enjoy for a few years it will still represent very good vfm even if the van does go on to choose worst case scenario and die after a few years! Hopefully best case scenario will apply and it will retain it's value for years yet - after all in the under £10k market, whilst there are some good buys, there is also much worn out tatty crap on the for sale!

 

From memory power steering costs around £1400 to £1700 ish to retrofit - so bang goes your £2000 budget!

 

Christena, may I say that, and I'm sure I speak for several others as well, I really admire and respect your attitude, spirit and enthusiasm for a job that many people would just walk away from in these days of the throw away society and I wish you every success.

[Christena]

Thanks Tracker, I do so appreciate your comments.

 

I didnt cost for Power Steering in those figures, but of course I would pay that extra to have the ability to share the driving.

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

Tracker - 2010-08-05 11:41 AM ........... Christena, may I say that, and I'm sure I speak for several others as well, I really admire and respect your attitude, spirit and enthusiasm for a job that many people would just walk away from in these days of the throw away society and I wish you every success.

Hear, hear!  Since the van is uncommon, and definitely was a very distinctive and, IMO, smart, looking vehicle, it should have a good value if it can be reinstated.  In its present condition it presumably has little more than scrap value.  Refurbished, it will undoubtedly be worth several thousand pounds, the only real question being whether that will prove to be more than the refurbishment costs!  As a guess, it will have a bit of an elevated value because of its relative rarity, providing you can find the right buyer.  It must surely appeal to someone who runs "classic" vans, and that would be where I would go for help and advice on further moves.  As suggested above, Martin Watts (MMM's "Life in the Slow Lane" editor) may be a useful contact.  So, even if you blow the budget (within reason!) you should still get a reasonable return, and if you keep it, you will get the pleasure of using it.