You have been banned

[cymply]

I was a motorhome owner `till last year when I retired and settled down in Portugal. There are 50,000 motorhomers arriving here every year and I can well understand why they come.

 

I lived for two years on the beach in mine and loved every minute of it. The fishermen at 4 a.m setting off to sea, the smell of the sea and wildlife, its unsurpassed here in Portugal, don`t be surprised if a stork comes to live you whilst your here. Take your bike off the rack and peddle 500 yds and there`ll be at a seafood restaurant, cheap as chips so to speak. So much to see and so little time.

Most motorhomers come to winter here, why? because we don`t have one !!

 

Its beautiful in winter, like a English spring and autumn all rolled into one.

 

But the natives have revolted, they want you off the cliff tops and into the campsites where they can charge you extortionate fees. They want you out of the municipal car parks and under control. They want your money as they class you as none paying guests.

 

This last month they declared war and decided to clamp you after seven o`clock if you are not on a camp site by that time, trouble is you`ll have a job finding something that you`ll like.

 

Personally, I never did like paying to park, my Hobby 750 set me back 55k with extras so I believe I have the same rights as a mini........to park where I like as long as its legal.

 

The Algarve is a paradise for us guys, we really ought to do something about it.........no need to even think of fighting the system, there isn`t one............anybody out there with ideas, your welcome.

 

Regards

Graham

 

 

[mendipman]

( (!)

[Mel B]

Hi Cymply - welcome. :-D

 

I must admit though, that you, and others, appear to have brought this on yourselves - staying for TWO YEARS on the same beach is absolutely shameful in my view! How on earth would you feel if you were one of the residents ... it's people who outstay their welcome that have caused the horrendous problems that some areas are experiencing. Those of us who are at places for one or, at the very most, two nights, being careful where we park so as not to offend people, and act responsibly, are the ones who lose out because of the actions of people like you.

 

I'm sorry if that offends you, but it is my honest opinion. :-S

[Clive]

First post??

 

I suspect a wind up here.

 

C.

 

 

[Keithl]

Clive - 2010-08-07 8:48 PM

 

First post??

 

I suspect a wind up here.

 

C.

 

 

Or an advertising ploy, have a look at his website...

 

Edit. I've just seen his post in 'Park home zone'.

I rest my case!

[starvin marvin]

Where have I heard this before? We've free camped in both Spain and Portugal for the last 3 winters and intend to do the same again this winter.

 

I've yet to see anyone dumping waste where they should not. In fact one of the first questions you ask or get asked is when free camping is "were can you dump?/were can you get water?". Personally we've have never put waste anywhere that it should not go, ie a toilet or a sewer. There are plenty of places to do just this, and if people do dump inappropiately then they are simply asking for trouble from the authorities, locals and other m/homers., and rightly so.

 

We generally avoid the Algarve, simply too crowded for us and there are loads of other places.

 

Apparently there is no free camping in Catalan/Costa Brava, nonsense; camped lots of times, no trouble at all. No free camping on the Costa Blanca/Costa del Sol, nonsense; although have been moved off twice by some very gracious and apologetic local cops, after 3 and 5 nights respectively, as it happens when we were going anyway.

 

Never been moved off in Portugal, everybody very tolerant and welcoming. Cops are cops and if their boss gives them an instruction they will move you on regardless. I understand that people were moved from the Algarve last winter, although I never met anyone to whom this had actually happened. People were saying they had heard there was a problem and the cops were moving/fining people. This may well have happened, but we never met any.

 

The free camping world is peppered with rumours and more rumours, after our first winter we decided to see for ourselves, and 75% of our nights away have been free or practically free and hopefully will continue to be. Free camps are generally in better locations than sites.

 

I'm sorry but until we see some hard evidence of "banning" then it will be as we were.

[flicka]

Have to wholly agree with Mel B

No wonder the Authorities want to move him out.

Guess having disposed of his motorhome he has plonked a Static in it's place.

Statics should be on sites.

 

Typical Time-Share saleman touting for business, by the looks of things.

[Mike B.]

Well that's one way to get people to check out your website for Portuguese Park Homes

[johngee]

Ah, the Algarve!!!

 

There's nothing I like more than visiting my favourite beaches & headlands and enjoying the uninterrupted views of dozens of motorhomes, clearly entrenched for some time. I love to admire the satellite dishes, washing, chairs, tables, and all the other crap which spoils what was once a beautiful location.

[Rayjsj]

Dear Crymply,

Glad to hear that the locals and the police have finally got to grips with you and people like you, I hear that next they are going to hire Bulldozers and push all the Static caravans into the sea, to form a 'Storm break' and protect the vulnerable Beaches.

Whatever happened to 'Leave nothing but footprints,take nothing but memories' I think the sign got chopped up and burnt on some ones barbeque. Ray

[Porky]

cymply - 2010-08-07 7:27 PM

 

 

But the natives have revolted, they want you off the cliff tops and into the campsites where they can charge you extortionate fees. They want you out of the municipal car parks and under control. They want your money as they class you as none paying guests.

 

This last month they declared war and decided to clamp you after seven o`clock if you are not on a camp site by that time, trouble is you`ll have a job finding something that you`ll like.

 

Personally, I never did like paying to park, my Hobby 750

 

 

We have people like you in this country they are called travellers/gypsys/pikeys/hippys whatever name you like to use. They declare their entitlement to a free life unrestrained by the the restrictions we choose to accept as a society which respects the fact that someone owns the land and anyone parking there without permissision is trespassing. You should get nowt for nowt my old gran used to say and even if you justify your staying by saying it is only for a night, what about the van that takes your place? To a resident you are one continuous van (or vans) Just bear in mind residents pay to be where they are, and usually at a premium in a nice place. What right do you have to come along and spoil it?>:-)

If this is a wind up it has worked.

[cymply]

Evening all, what a response and such a mixed bag of accusations and wild statements is this your normal welcome for new members on a first post !! :

 

Timeshare salesman looking for business...........don`t think so.

Wind up.........for what.........don`t think so

Causing a problem by 2 years on the beach..........not one complaint in two years......

Gypo/traveller...............don`t think so

Sold out for a static...............don`t think so, bought a villa and land..........

Doubtful info ..................don`t thinks see http://www.algarveresident.com/story.asp?ID=37421

 

 

Now lets try again with a little more info and see if I can get some help here...............and I don`t blame you for being sceptical.

 

I have always owned (up until 2006) a Harley Davidson and caravan or a campervan. Unfortunately I was rammed in the back of my Jeep and broke a backbone and now find it difficult to walk never mind drive long distance or ride a bike so both had to go.

I came here to Portugal on business briefly in 2003 and returned again in early 2004 in the new Hobby 750.

 

I did`nt need to rent or buy a place, I drove one ! So I tried a couple of camping sites and they wern`t good so went wild camping avoiding others who were collecting in droves on cliff tops and car parks and found myself a quiet beach, we have hundreds of miles of them, most with no one the on them at all.

I am an avid reader of the Portugal News and Algarve Resident and just recently there has been a torrent of letters in a similar vein to what I received from your good selves regarding wild campers and what a blight on the community they are. In defense of them, they are mostly a nice lot and contribute greatly to the economy but refuse to be herded into unsanitary poor conditioned camp sites where robbery is quite common and not always from outsiders.

 

I have always been in their defense and wanted to do something to stop the repercussions of the governments actions in clamping them and instigating impractical laws, like, don`t put your steps down or open windows !! as it will only drive them away forever.

So, I `m toying with couple of ideas like a free park and wondered if there was anyone out there that might want to contribute ideas, my reason for writing originally with no ulterior motive.

 

I put this site up over 2 years ago http://www.opipt.com/motoroam-motels.htm

 

Regarding my website, I have 1800 sites accumulated over 20 years and have been to visit factory's of Tingdene, Omar, all static makers and caravan makers in Hull. I have visited many an exhibitions being personally invited to attend the Northern Motorhome Exhibition recently but those day are over for me now, don`t get about much anymore. I also consider myself a good friend of Sue Chambers (Perry) of the Park Home and Holiday Caravan Magazine. (name drop)

My main site is www.opipt.com which really would`nt be up your street but to show I have nothing to hide help yourself.

 

So, its just ideas I`m after and maybe a few new friends, apologies if I set your minds thinking in other directions.

 

Ps, how do you fix this thing to send notifications when people have replied, I didn`t know you`d all answered

[rupert123]

I have made my feelings known on so called wild campers, I have another name for them but will keep that to myself. As to the bit about unsavory camp sites with loads of robberies, where are they? In my years of M/H use mostly on sites have never personally come across a single robbery, you are much more likely to get robbed of a site especially if you leave your van. Do not the 'torrent of letters' in papers tell you anything.

[cymply]

Mel B and Stalwart

 

Please don`t class me as something I never was. I wasn`t passing thro or a seasonal visitor, I went into Portugal to live. I had invested in land, a Hobby 750 and formed a building company and wanted to live in my new 750. I didn`t want to live with other non English travellers, or buy a house so found myself a quiet spot where I would be no trouble and was no trouble to anyone for two years. You are entitled to your own thoughts on travellers and wild campers. I am neither.

 

I did not use the words 'loads of robberies' so please don`t misconstrue 'robbery is quite common' was the phrase used. There is no need to define their whereabouts but with crime rising owing to high unemployment, illegal workers, especially Eastern Europeans in the Villa Moura area are looking for easy pickings and Motorhomes are an easy target, maybe that's why the wild campers group togehter...............for safety.

You`ll find the more security conscious sites are well fenced in these days and are protected 24/7 against intruders.believe me they are there.

 

Sadly the letters in papers are mainly from the Portuguese who see these non paying invaders as parasites and should be banished from the land, they don`t look to 'harvesting' the intruders and gaining even more income above what they provide already.................and that's not difficult to do if they would just use their brains to find the answer.

 

The subject of 'travellers' has long been a problem in the UK as you know, ok they are a different type of traveller (I`m not one of those either) but the Govt have set up special areas for them to keep them off greenbelt land and conservation areas. Sensible, its a compromise....and that's what we need here, not an all out war, especially when Portugal has 25% of its country unregistered on the land records which means we have an area twice the size of Yorkshire, that no one owns !!

 

Now tell me, what would you do if 100 vans were parked outside your house tomorrow morning and the police tell you they are not committing any offences, when they do we`ll move `em. Now think about this, as they`ll be in the pub that night might be a good idea to buy it as sales have just went thro the roof. The local shop is doing well all of a sudden so buy that as well and might as well open a restaurant in a tent opposite, fisn`n chips and curry might suit. See what I`m getting at, these guys have cash but they are just in the wrong place.

 

Next year we expect to have 1.3 million paid camping nights booked and probably twice that amount of unpaid wild campers.................all spending money..............

any ideas??

[Porky]

cymply - 2010-08-09 11:27 PM

 

Mel B and Stalwart

 

 

Now tell me, what would you do if 100 vans were parked outside your house tomorrow morning and the police tell you they are not committing any offences, when they do we`ll move `em. Now think about this, as they`ll be in the pub that night might be a good idea to buy it as sales have just went thro the roof. The local shop is doing well all of a sudden so buy that as well and might as well open a restaurant in a tent opposite, fisn`n chips and curry might suit. See what I`m getting at, these guys have cash but they are just in the wrong place.

 

Next year we expect to have 1.3 million paid camping nights booked and probably twice that amount of unpaid wild campers.................all spending money..............

any ideas??

 

I have no idea what you are getting at. If you want people to stay and spend money then the aire system is ideal, tried and tested. Why don't you therefore encourage all the towns and villages to provide these facilities. Better still why don't you provide these local aires and make your money that way>:-)

Now doesn't that sound like a good idea? Your reaction is eagerly awaited.

[mendipman]

cymply - 2010-08-09 11:27

 

Now tell me, what would you do if 100 vans were parked outside your house tomorrow morning and the police tell you they are not committing any offences, when they do we`ll move `em. Now think about this, as they`ll be in the pub that night might be a good idea to buy it as sales have just went thro the roof. The local shop is doing well all of a sudden so buy that as well and might as well open a restaurant in a tent opposite, fisn`n chips and curry might suit. See what I`m getting at, these guys have cash but they are just in the wrong place.

 

Next year we expect to have 1.3 million paid camping nights booked and probably twice that amount of unpaid wild campers.................all spending money..............

any ideas??

 

Where is this Hippy Festival next year??? Sounds like a Portugese Glastonbury!!!!!

 

 

[david lloyd]

cymply - 2010-08-09 11:27 PM

 

 

The subject of 'travellers' has long been a problem in the UK as you know, ok they are a different type of traveller (I`m not one of those either) but the Govt have set up special areas for them to keep them off greenbelt land and conservation areas. Sensible, its a compromise....and that's what we need here, not an all out war, especially when Portugal has 25% of its country unregistered on the land records which means we have an area twice the size of Yorkshire, that no one owns !!

 

 

I believe the people of Portugal (Spain, France, Germany, etc. etc.) have also set up special areas for motorhomes to keep off greenbelt land or any other private land - they are all usually reffered to as campsites, aires, sostas, etc. etc..................

 

I think you wll also find that there are large swathes of land 'unregistered' with the Land Registry here in the UK - that is not to say that it is not 'owned' by anyone, simply not registered.

 

David

[cymply]

Mendipman/Porky

 

The Aire sytem is great for France I`ve tried it and admit, France is light years ahead of Portugal and provide well for their countries travelling visitor, regrettably, here we don`t. If you stop for the night in a Motorway services, you`ll be fined when you next get to a toll barrier. Am I right in saying Aire systems are for those on the move? as I was. We are a destination point. We are the Algarve, sounds a like a brand doesn`t it, I guess it is as people purposely set off to spend winter here. Once here the hospitality doesn`t start.

 

Look at this for France

 

One star campsites: (about 1500 campsites, many of them small)

 

Two star campsites: (over 4000 campsites, almost half the total number)

 

Three star campsites: (over 2000 campsites, many of them quite large)

 

Four star campsites: (about 700 campsites, generally large)

 

Total 8200

 

Portugal

Algarve (15) Green Coast (12) Plains (14)

Coast of Lisbon (8) Montanhas (12) Silver Coast (31)

 

Total 92

 

So you might ask, armed with 92 sites why do we have wild campers? because the majoity are unprofessional, dirty, don`t speak english, difficult to locate and offer nothing because they don`t know how to do it, simple as that, oh, forgot ........in the wrong places.

 

In Silves where I live, Motorhomes passing thro are immediatly attracted on the roads into town, to the beauty of Silves Castle, we all wanna see castles don`t we, so straight to the carpark by the river, get the chips cooking and park up for 4 months whilst we have a look around, can`t blane them really can you.?

 

Finally, its not Glastonbury, its a lot bigger, if it was as well organised as Glastonbury, I wouldn`t be writing.

 

Geographically, for those who don`t know the Algarve, it starts at the Spanish boarder and ends up a two hour drive later on the west coast, then hang a right and head north and see the west coast, fantastic, its small so we don`t need overnight stops, we need something yet to be invented, where we can park and tour from there and a camp site is not the answer. Not the ones we have anyway.

Another problem for MH owners is many of our towns have very narrow roads so exploration is impossible in a MH, maybe thats the clue. Park Free and Rent a bike or get your own out.

 

Next year ( which begins in November....... as the winter birds arrive) we have a problem, they will be fined, to the Portuguese, its the easist way to collect.

cash.

 

Thanx for the input

 

 

 

[Porky]

cymply - 2010-08-10 4:42 PM

 

Mendipman/Porky

 

The Aire sytem is great for France I`ve tried it and admit, France is light years ahead of Portugal and provide well for their countries travelling visitor, regrettably, here we don`t.

 

 

And that is the point I made and was ignored. If you really want people to get behind you, you have to offer a solution and not ask others, and then not like the response. If you were to put your energy (and cash) into developing much needed aire facility in Portugal (you are there and well placed to do it) you may be surprised to find a good deal of support. It probably would take a lot of time and effort, but it could be done and it would be worthwhile. So again I ask the question WHY NOT?

[Dave Newell]

"So you might ask, armed with 92 sites why do we have wild campers? because the majority are unprofessional, dirty, don`t speak English, difficult to locate and offer nothing because they don`t know how to do it, simple as that, oh, forgot ........in the wrong places. "

 

Sounds like a good opportunity to open a good quality campsite in the right area with good facilities and English speaking hosts then..............But what about German, French, Spanish, Italian etc campers? Would they not like to visit the Algarve too and be greeted by hosts who speak their language?

 

Sorry to say this but you sound like a typical Brit abroad wanting to turn it into something its not. Enjoy Portugal for what it is rather than trying to turn it into "Little Britain" (but with sunshine?).

 

D.

[cymply]

Porky

 

'And that is the point I made and was ignored. If you really want people to get behind you, you have to offer a solution and not ask others'

 

That's exactly why I came on board to ask advice and to ask others. An 'aire' solution, is not the solution but its a start, I`m thinking more of a 'branded' solution where MH`s would make for if they knew one was around, bit like going to Tesco because you know its good or MacDonalds `cos you know its cheap. Porky, your`e right why not! Just need to find the brand now.

 

David

 

I like the multilingual aspect as the Portuguese don`t speak enough languages and of course multi linguists or a crew of seven who spoke seven different languages would be of help and an attraction.

 

I`m not trying to change the world here, what I am trying to do is make something work or at least better than it is. Its broken and does need fixing before its to late.

 

I`m meeting my pal tomorrow who owns a very large tract of land and is keen to do something that's not going to take 5 years to get through planning, he`s earmarked 50 hectares on the river which he`s already marked out as parking plots each almost 100 metres square, fenced, electric, water and sewage disposal but having said that, its just (or will be) a motorhome car park that will accommodate 5000 vehicles. So besides it being bi-lingual other ideas have to enter to it so it should be a good meet. Its amazing what a few beers will do.

 

Just as bit of fun we were discussing jobs a few weeks ago on the site and the subject of 'allotments' arose assuming everyone likes a little bit of land which lead from one thing to another and before we knew it we had a full blown market garden on site with owners mucking in and growing/ selling their own veggies. Bare in mind these guys stick around several months and we do grow stuff virtually year round, there could be some great pleasure in that which would bring them back.

 

That conversation followed on to us bringing some farmer in with a lot of meat which lead to a bar-b-Q every Saturday night for all on site, now that would be a Glastonbury in miniature as we have some very talented entertainers here in various states if retirement, Sir Cliff Richard to name one who is a bit of a gardener growing his own grapes and producing his own wine.

 

So, we soldier on, thanx for the input, we`re getting there.

[mendipman]

cymply - 2010-08-11 12:31 AM

 

Porky

 

'And that is the point I made and was ignored. If you really want people to get behind you, you have to offer a solution and not ask others'

 

That's exactly why I came on board to ask advice and to ask others. An 'aire' solution, is not the solution but its a start, I`m thinking more of a 'branded' solution where MH`s would make for if they knew one was around, bit like going to Tesco because you know its good or MacDonalds `cos you know its cheap. Porky, your`e right why not! Just need to find the brand now.

 

David

 

I like the multilingual aspect as the Portuguese don`t speak enough languages and of course multi linguists or a crew of seven who spoke seven different languages would be of help and an attraction.

 

I`m not trying to change the world here, what I am trying to do is make something work or at least better than it is. Its broken and does need fixing before its to late.

 

I`m meeting my pal tomorrow who owns a very large tract of land and is keen to do something that's not going to take 5 years to get through planning, he`s earmarked 50 hectares on the river which he`s already marked out as parking plots each almost 100 metres square, fenced, electric, water and sewage disposal but having said that, its just (or will be) a motorhome car park that will accommodate 5000 vehicles. So besides it being bi-lingual other ideas have to enter to it so it should be a good meet. Its amazing what a few beers will do.

 

Just as bit of fun we were discussing jobs a few weeks ago on the site and the subject of 'allotments' arose assuming everyone likes a little bit of land which lead from one thing to another and before we knew it we had a full blown market garden on site with owners mucking in and growing/ selling their own veggies. Bare in mind these guys stick around several months and we do grow stuff virtually year round, there could be some great pleasure in that which would bring them back.

 

That conversation followed on to us bringing some farmer in with a lot of meat which lead to a bar-b-Q every Saturday night for all on site, now that would be a Glastonbury in miniature as we have some very talented entertainers here in various states if retirement, Sir Cliff Richard to name one who is a bit of a gardener growing his own grapes and producing his own wine.

 

So, we soldier on, thanx for the input, we`re getting there.

 

 

5000 Motorhomes !!!??? Give me the Pizza Franchise !!

[catinou]

5000 Motorhomes !!!??? Give me the Pizza Franchise !!

 

8-) Couldn't agree more!! I can't think of anything worse. *-)

 

We are about to sign on the dotted line for a place in Central France (2 weeks and counting....) which happens to have about 1.5 acres - presently a field, and is in a very quiet country area, but within easy reach of a main motorway. One of our ideas when we move there at the end of next year is to provide basic facilities for motorhomers wanting a brief respite in the peace and quiet of the countryside for a night or two - we thought 5 vans would be more than enough - but 5000 vans in one place?? It sounds like the aires on our last forray to France which co-incided with the start of the French holidays!!8-)

[cymply]

Hi Stalwart

 

That sounds like fun and a nice little earner, we are doing the same thing but we signed on the dotted line in 1989 so we have a bit of time behind us. Best of luck to you anyway.

 

Based on info and suggestions I received since joining you and our own input our draft plan is here http://www.opipt.com/motoroam-motels.htm

for those interested.

 

Thanx for your input and maybe we`ll see you all on the Algarve one day.

 

regards

Graham

[mendipman]

CYMPLY (!) (!) Just been on your site !!!count me out as one of your potential campers !!!! Tavira in 1975 was a lovely if very smelly village but with that lot there now, noway (!) (!) The late 70s after the revolution was the best time...now the Algarve is going concrete and with your plan ....!!!

 

BUT!!! The best of Luck

 

MM