The Prime Minister's announcement

[Hilux]

Today the Prime Minister has pledged to make Britain one of the top five tourist destinations in the world.

 

A step in the right direction would be to introduce policy guidance for local authorities to provide overnight parking for camping cars similar to the Aires in both Germany and France. It is my intention to write to the PM and make this suggestion in line with the momentum that MMM has tried to achieve over recent years in promoting such land use. Perhaps others could be encouraged to also write. If the French and Germans can do it why can't we do so?

 

Regards

 

H

[neil malcolmson]

Because we let pikeys get away with taking the p

[RogP]

neil malcolmson - 2010-08-12 2:29 PM

 

Because we let pikeys get away with taking the p

 

ditto

 

http://www.expressandstar.com/news/2010/08/12/travellers-leave-a-puppy-tied-to-tree/

 

my area been plagued by 'travellers' for some time and its us tax payers picking up the costs

 

Set up Aires and you'll get more of the same.

 

[Porky]

Hilux - 2010-08-12 2:12 PM

 

Today the Prime Minister has pledged to make Britain one of the top five tourist destinations in the world.

 

A step in the right direction would be to introduce policy guidance for local authorities to provide overnight parking for camping cars similar to the Aires in both Germany and France. It is my intention to write to the PM and make this suggestion in line with the momentum that MMM has tried to achieve over recent years in promoting such land use. Perhaps others could be encouraged to also write. If the French and Germans can do it why can't we do so?

 

Regards

 

H

 

I think from the way you have worded this you may not have done a search on this forum for posts related to aires and parking. There have been many, two very recently. Many of us have (and still do) encouraged local authorities to provide such facility and if memory serves correctly the petition to Downing Street has been tried. If you have the energy and enthusiasm to go with this then good luck with it.

 

Roy Fuller

[flicka]

Hi Hilux & welcome to the forum

 

Have a look at the link on the 1st this tread

 

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=20333&posts=15

[John J Thompson]

flicka - 2010-08-12 2:52 PM

 

Hi Hilux & welcome to the forum

 

Have a look at the link on the 1st this tread

 

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=20333&posts=15

 

Thanks for the plug flicka.

 

So far we have had 102 comments and 97 votes on this topic on the "Your Freedom" government website.

 

The more people that contribute and in particular vote the more chance we have of getting more than the few places we have at present.

 

Many thanks to those people who like myself, have written direct to their local authorities in the past requesting them to consider providing facilities for visitors to the area.

 

John

[euroserv]

Hello campers,

 

I would have thought that as long as the 'aires' are located next to motorways and away from any desirable locations, and are not free of charge then it could be a good idea. As long as a token charge is levied then at least the land owners can legally insist on the undesirables moving on when they have outstayed their welcome. As opposed to having to provide porta-loos and countless other services for itenerants that appear in the middle of roundabouts etc. Then leaving their rubbish all over the place when they decide to move.

 

For the last two years a large group of 'tourists' from Portugal have arrived in Leicester and stayed 'on holiday' on one of the urban parks in Leicester City Centre. Even our local pikeys don't do that! They resolutely refuse to move on until they are good and ready and the council and police seem powerless to do anything about it. Last year it was 3 weeks after which it reportedly cost £30,000 to clear up after them.

 

Aires will only work if they are alongside motorways and are utterly basic places to get a kip. There should also be a police station nearby with police ready and willing to check that the headlights of the visiting vehicles comply, and that their insurance and MOT tests are in order. While we are at it, let's weigh them and introduce some ludicrous law along the lines of " You must keep a string vest and top hat in the cab at all times within easy reach of the driver " Oh, and let's have "Your Reversing and Fog lights must be on the correct side" as well.

 

I think we should be as accomodating to our foreign visitors as they are to us.

 

Perhaps, on the other hand these Portugese were exacting revenge on Brits that wild camp in their beauty spots. Who knows?

 

Nick

[robertandjean]

What nonsense to suggest that aires be located only next to motorways or in middle of nowhere. The great thing about the French aires is that many of them are in villages or towns so making visiting them and spending money with local people easy. Regarding travellers or gypsies (and could we please use the correct and not derogatory language) then it is not correct that aires will all become travellers camps. In France this is certainly not the case; yes on some aires travellers or "gens de voyager" have at times become encamped but this is very much the exception. When this does happen the French authorities act quickly to move the travellers on. This is aided in France by the fact that many Departments have established areas or aires for "gens de voyagers". In addition the French government are also now engaged in national action to ensure that any travellers who have no right to be in France are deported.

So no problem in setting up aires here provided that also sites are established for travellers and that the authorities act in a firm and fair way to ensure that any travellers who should not be in the U.K are removed.

[PJay]

Being a SMALL island, we don't have the space that France has. (I would love to be able to drive on UK roads, were you don't see another vehicle for miles!!) I think motorways would be the ideal spot for overnight aires, as they are meant to be for "overnight" Lorry drives sleep in thier cabs in laybys and Service stations, so why not MH?

PJay

[W3526602]

Hi

 

Charge of £100 per night to use a UK Aire, payable by credit card. Get refund as you leave, payable TO your credit card.

 

Or, payment by cheque with bankers card. As you leave, your cheque will be put in an envelope addressed to your home, and posted in front of you.

 

So you hang around long enough for your payment to be checked, and you leave a paper trail after you have left.

 

602

 

 

[W3526602]

Hi

 

Charge of £100 per night to use a UK Aire, payable by credit card. Get refund as you leave, payable TO your credit card.

 

Or, payment by cheque with bankers card. As you leave, your cheque will be put in an envelope addressed to your home, and posted in front of you.

 

So you hang around long enough for your payment to be checked, and you leave a paper trail after you have left.

 

602

 

 

[John J Thompson]

PJay - 2010-08-13 12:35 AM

 

Being a SMALL island, we don't have the space that France has. (I would love to be able to drive on UK roads, were you don't see another vehicle for miles!!) I think motorways would be the ideal spot for overnight aires, as they are meant to be for "overnight" Lorry drives sleep in thier cabs in laybys and Service stations, so why not MH?

PJay

 

These islands are unwelcoming to visitors from abroad. I have had people tell me in my travels, that they would like to visit us, but will not do so because they do not want to use expensive camp sites, or be forced to join a club, just to get access to the facilities that an Aire in their country offers to all visitors.

 

We may be a small island, but we do have many car parks in towns and villages, that could be used as Aires, as happen in many Villages and Towns in France and other European countries. These areas are often empty and locked at night. Users would then tend to spend money in the locality. This would be at little or no cost to the community and could help the local shops and businesses.

 

Motorways are away from the communities and have limits and restrictions that make them generally unsuitable for use by overnighting Motorhomes. ie. no use of gas appliances, such as fridges and heaters.

There were some service areas built with separate facilities for caravans and Motorhomes to overnight, but these seem now to be blocked off and unusable.

 

There are powers already to remove people and vehicles that are trespassing. The "powers that be" tend to string out these processes or do not use them at all.

 

It is no more legal for a driver of a lorry to park and sleep in a lay-by, than it is for the driver of a Motorhome. They tend to be left alone, however Motorhomes are moved on.

The Public Health Act 1937 states that "any vehicle that is constructed or adapted for human habitation, is a caravan". The Caravan sites and Control of Development Act 1960 requires inhabited caravan to be on a site (licenced or certificated). However under the same Act, Local Authorities do not need a Caravan Site license to set up a facility within their area.

 

A few Local Authorities have provided facilities for self contained Motor Caravans (not touring caravans) to park overnight. It is lack of will or "Traveller phobia" that prevents more from doing so. The difference between parking and camping is not appreciated by many authorities.

 

Camping involves placing anything outside the vehicle. ie steps, water and waste containers, levelling ramps, tables, chairs or Awnings.

 

Motor Caravans do not need to put any of these out to park, as they are self contained. They can go for days without the need to take on water or dispose of their wet waste at a borne. The provision of a borne facility would also go a long way in preventing some of the problems the "Travellers" have in disposing of their waste as well.

 

Please help us get more facilities for ourselves and visitors by registering supporting the proposal on the HMG - Your Freedom website.

 

http://yourfreedom.hmg.gov.uk/restoring-civil-liberties/motor-caravan-aires-and-wild-camping-in-suitable-locations

 

Quote: Your ideas, comments and ratings will directly inform the Government’s policy making. Some of your proposals could even end up making it into bills before Parliament. We promise to read and respond to your ideas and comments, But we won’t only respond to the most popular ideas (those ranked the highest or those with the most comments). We may also respond to and make use of ideas that are less popular but which we identify as having clear value. End Quote

 

John

 

 

 

 

[starvin marvin]

robertandjean - 2010-08-12 9:26 PM

 

What nonsense to suggest that aires be located only next to motorways or in middle of nowhere. The great thing about the French aires is that many of them are in villages or towns so making visiting them and spending money with local people easy. Regarding travellers or gypsies (and could we please use the correct and not derogatory language) then it is not correct that aires will all become travellers camps. In France this is certainly not the case; yes on some aires travellers or "gens de voyager" have at times become encamped but this is very much the exception. When this does happen the French authorities act quickly to move the travellers on. This is aided in France by the fact that many Departments have established areas or aires for "gens de voyagers". In addition the French government are also now engaged in national action to ensure that any travellers who have no right to be in France are deported.

So no problem in setting up aires here provided that also sites are established for travellers and that the authorities act in a firm and fair way to ensure that any travellers who should not be in the U.K are removed.

 

Good to "see" a voice of reason on this matter. In someways its also useful to know that the "hang and flog 'em" folk are still with us, regardless of whether the accused are guilty or not..

[Porky]

I think this is a very positive and constructive initiative by John Thompson which deserves all our support. Is it not possible for MMM and PM to run with this. How can we encourage them to do so?

[rebbyvid]

Canterbury seems to have no problems with so called travellers and puts a bus on to the town centre for £2.50 from its Dover rd park and ride to help us tourists spend our cash (lol) (lol)

[scotsbob]

Ref the comments made about "the travelling people" getting away with fouling up the countryside is the Police and local councils are TOO POLICTICALLY CORRECT and scared about Human Rights /Ethnic minorities etc to do anything about them, and its us the local rate payers who have to pick up the cost for our ineffectual councillors/lawkeepers.

[747]

There is a new Park and Ride to be constructed on the outskirts of Gateshead, Tyne and Wear. I contacted my local Councillor who passed my enquiries on to the Planning Department. The person who emailed me back had no grasp whatsoever about the facilities required for motorhomes. I only asked if there would be no height barriers and larger parking bays. This chap could only visualise caravans and must have no knowledge of motorhomes.

 

In a separate question to my Councillor, I brought up the subject of overnight facilities in the style of European aires and the advantages to local business. This twit in the Planning Dept. picked this up wrongly and assumed I was wanting a mini caravan site on the proposed Park and Ride.

 

The mind boggles at these people. 8-)

 

I agree that we should try to change things at local level but these idiots do not make it easy for us. :'(

[John J Thompson]

747 - 2010-08-13 11:51 PM

 

There is a new Park and Ride to be constructed on the outskirts of Gateshead, Tyne and Wear. I contacted my local Councillor who passed my enquiries on to the Planning Department. The person who emailed me back had no grasp whatsoever about the facilities required for motorhomes. I only asked if there would be no height barriers and larger parking bays. This chap could only visualise caravans and must have no knowledge of motorhomes.

 

In a separate question to my Councillor, I brought up the subject of overnight facilities in the style of European aires and the advantages to local business. This twit in the Planning Dept. picked this up wrongly and assumed I was wanting a mini caravan site on the proposed Park and Ride.

 

The mind boggles at these people. 8-)

 

I agree that we should try to change things at local level but these idiots do not make it easy for us. :'(

 

Existing legislation under the Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960 already exists, to allow local authorities to provide sites where caravans may be brought, whether for holidays or other temporary purposes or for use as permanent residences, and to manage the sites or lease them to some other person.

 

Part 1 – Caravan Sites

Provision of caravan sites by local authorities

 

24. - (1) A local authority shall have power within their area to provide sites where caravans may be brought, whether for caravans, for holidays or other temporary purposes or for use as permanent residences, and to manage the sites or lease them to some other person.

 

(2 ) A local authority shall have power to do anything appearing to them desirable in connection with the provision of such sites, and in particular -

(a) to acquire land which is in use as a caravan site, or which has been laid out as a caravan site, or

(b) to provide for the use of those occupying caravan sites any services or facilities for their health or convenience.

 

(4) A local authority may make available the services and facilities provided under this section for those who do not normally reside in the area of the local authority as freely as for those who do.

(5) A local authority shall, in the performance of their functions under this section, have power, where it appears to them that a caravan site or an additional caravan site is needed in their area, or that land which is in use as a caravan site should in the interests of the users of caravans be taken over by the local authority, to acquire land, or any interest in land, compulsorily.

 

Ii is either lack of knowledge of the powers that are currently available to them or simply that they cannot see any benefits in going outside of the current provision, that stops them from setting up Aires in their area.

 

I agree with Jim there are very few sites available in the Tyneside area for visitors to use and this Park & Ride scheme would go some way to provide such facilities.

 

Give them anothe nudge Jim. (747)

 

John

[Clive]

The point we need top get over to the PM is that other European countries can both have many free to use aires and at the same time control the pikies.

We just need to do the same.

 

C.

 

[Brock]

And can we help the haulage industry by having more truck stops. Otherwise, lorries may be forced to use the aires.

 

I know tourists bring in money, but do we really need more people coming here when we are almost at bursting point anyway.

[747]

It looks to me Brock that we have lost the ability to get rid of the ones that need to be kicked out and it makes less room for tourists.

 

The British population is set to rise dramatically over the next 20 years and they are all immigrants.

[LordThornber]

My own take on the UK aires situation is this. Far too many Councils, (all?), just have not got a clue about our needs.

 

We used to visit a village near Skipton and mooching around the town identified at least 2 possible locations for an aire. Why did we do this you ask? Well the local site owner was clearly, by anyones stretch of the imagination, going over the top with his prices, his choice as ever, but ours also to vote with our feet. But there's the rub, we didn't want to stop visiting this lovely spot, so....

 

Now not for one second do I pretend to know all the ins and outs a Council would have to go through to achieve an aire but the response I received to my aire suggestion was laughable.

 

They clearly had no idea to what I was referring. So I sent them a pic or two of an aire and needless to say enclosed details of possible benefits to the town, i.e increased tourism without going overboard with traffic and/or an eyesore of potentially large white vehicles.

 

Fair do's they did suggest contacting the local football club to see if they could help out in summer when the facilities were underused.

 

Short of electing a France visiting, Motorhome owning Councillor onto your your local Council, I suspect we've no chance of ever achieving what we need.

 

Sorry to be so negative or is that realistic? *-)

 

Martyn

[Porky]

747 - 2010-08-20 7:38 PM

 

It looks to me Brock that we have lost the ability to get rid of the ones that need to be kicked out and it makes less room for tourists.

 

The British population is set to rise dramatically over the next 20 years and they are all immigrants.

 

These people know the law, and it very stupidly allows them to park until a court order can be obtained. Until that happens the police are unable to act (no such thing as tresspass) So this is the result (Friday 30th August)

http://www.thisisexeter.co.uk/news/Security-drafted-travellers-arrive/article-2549135-detail/article.html

Just pis***s me off big time. So the law needs changing>:-)

 

Roy Fuller

[Andy_C]

Porky - 2010-08-20 9:04 PM

 

747 - 2010-08-20 7:38 PM

 

It looks to me Brock that we have lost the ability to get rid of the ones that need to be kicked out and it makes less room for tourists.

 

The British population is set to rise dramatically over the next 20 years and they are all immigrants.

 

These people know the law, and it very stupidly allows them to park until a court order can be obtained. Until that happens the police are unable to act (no such thing as tresspass) So this is the result (Friday 30th August)

http://www.thisisexeter.co.uk/news/Security-drafted-travellers-arrive/article-2549135-detail/article.html

Just pis***s me off big time. So the law needs changing>:-)

 

Roy Fuller

 

In fact the police do have the power, under Section 61 of The Criminal Justice and Public Order Act, to make arrests without a warrant and to 'seize and remove' vehicles after a 'reasonable period' without recourse to a court order. This power seems rarely to be used, probably because the police don't have the resources for it.

 

Andy

[Derek Uzzell]

LordThornber - 2010-08-20 8:14 PM

 

My own take on the UK aires situation is this. Far too many Councils, (all?), just have not got a clue about our needs.

 

We used to visit a village near Skipton and mooching around the town identified at least 2 possible locations for an aire. Why did we do this you ask? Well the local site owner was clearly, by anyones stretch of the imagination, going over the top with his prices, his choice as ever, but ours also to vote with our feet. But there's the rub, we didn't want to stop visiting this lovely spot, so....

 

Now not for one second do I pretend to know all the ins and outs a Council would have to go through to achieve an aire but the response I received to my aire suggestion was laughable.

 

They clearly had no idea to what I was referring. So I sent them a pic or two of an aire and needless to say enclosed details of possible benefits to the town, i.e increased tourism without going overboard with traffic and/or an eyesore of potentially large white vehicles.

 

Fair do's they did suggest contacting the local football club to see if they could help out in summer when the facilities were underused.

 

Short of electing a France visiting, Motorhome owning Councillor onto your your local Council, I suspect we've no chance of ever achieving what we need.

 

Sorry to be so negative or is that realistic? *-)

 

Martyn

 

I'm a France-visiting, motorhome owning, parish councillor and, if you wanted an 'aire' installed in this area (unlikely given how rural it is), you'd need to begin by providing a convincing business case to justify the benefits and to identify where the funding would come from.

 

There's a lot of twaddle talked on forums about French aires, "gens de voyage", etc. but, as far as I can see, the French aires network only pays for itself globally. Some aires are in places where it's predictable that motorcaravanners staying there will spend money in the local community, but many aires very definitely aren't. If it's to be claimed that the large network of French aires encourages foreign motorcaravanners to visit that country, then that's undoubtedly true. But I can't see a few 'stop-overs' scattered around the UK doing the same thing.

 

Good luck with this, but I'm sure a small petition won't do much good. If you really want a network of 'stop-overs' in the UK, then you'll need to have lots of competent, dedicated people prepared to spend time, effort (and a fair bit of their own money) working hard together towards that end.