waxoyling the underside

[insignia]

getting a new van in Sept obviously a good time to have the underside done ,does anyone have any advice or comments to give me on the subject .At £600 approx its not cheap is it worth having done

[w1ntersun]

Hi,

 

Depends on which van you are getting. Hymers such as mine do not recommend waxoyl as the van is aready done and galvanised.

 

Richard

[rupert123]

Probably not worth it on a new van. All I have seen in the last couple of years use a galvanised chassis. Depends on the other bits the makers use, how much protection they have.

[Dave Newell]

I think it depends more on how long you intend to keep the van really. If you're likely to change it within a couple of years then you are investing in the waxoyl for the following users benefit. If however you intend to keep it for ten years or so then I think it is a worthwhile investment.

 

D.

[Bulletguy]

Agree with all above posters especially as it's a new van and as another mentioned, if it's galvanised you would be throwing good money away.

 

However, here is a cautionary tale though hasten to add an unusual 'one off'.

 

Some years ago my brother-in-law bought an Austin Princess 'wedge' brand new straight from the dealer. When it was due for it's first service he took it back to the same garage, but when he went to collect it he was in for a shock. One of the mechanics said, "you'd better come and have a look at this mate" and took him into the service bay where they still had the car up on the four post lift. The entire underside of the floor pan had never been undersealed when it left the factory. It was just painted!!

 

Fortunately for him the Garage had a good customer reputation and promptly offered him a brand new replacement.....with underseal!

[Bulletguy]

insignia - 2010-08-15 11:37 AM

 

getting a new van in Sept obviously a good time to have the underside done. At £600 approx its not cheap is it worth having done

No.....for the very reasons others have mentioned.

 

Worthwhile considering an oil spray on non-galvanised parts though you have to search around for anyone prepared to do this today as apparently it's no longer legal.......but it's dead cheap, damned effective and keeps sealant soft. A guy local to me charges twenty quid for a car.

[Guest pelmetman]

As mentioned on a previous post I have been having my 10 year old works van done up, its a LWB Transit. I know having it Waxoilyed at this age is a bit like bolting the stable door after the horse has gone, but the chap who services all my vehicles offered to do the job for £75 8-)

Admitadly it was only the underneath, but seemed good value to me, he's doing the camper tomorrow B-)

[bobalobs]

Had our new Murvi panelvan waxoyled by Rustbusters when new in 2002 and sold it with no sign of rust this year. Will have our current recently purchased Murvi done this winter. Have it done when you plan not to use the van for a bit as it stinks and it takes about six weeks for the smell to disappear sufficiently to sleep in the van. It nearly led to divorce as I had "ruined our lovely new van"!!

Having had classic cars for decades rust is a never ending and often expensive problem. So 10 years ago when my wife bought a replacement car she decided on a Fiat Barchetta which has a fully galvanised body tub and the panels mainly "plastic" Problem solved I thought. Not so as this year I heard from the vehicle specialist that a number of the model have major rust in the floor and wheel arches. Matter not helped by water being trapped between the floor and its lining from hood leaks but as the specialist said "some galvanising is better than others".

Wonder why our new Fiat based van is being Waxoyled??!!

[hallii]

There is galvanised and something else that is electroplated, it might be called "electro-galvanise" or something like but it is not hot dip galvanise.

 

Now, I am not saying that electro-galvanise is not any good, it is, and anything that slows the rust bug down is worthwhile. But it is not as good as hot dip galvanise, anyway if you hot dipped a sheet steel car/van body the distortion would be very great.

 

So, will electro-galvanised steel rust? You bet, give it a couple of years and some nice salty mud and it will start to rust.

 

Will Waxoyl stop it? No, but it will slow it down.

 

To answer the original question, in my humble opinion, after 50 years of trying to find a solution to vehicle rust, and having tried most things, I can confidently say that Waxoyl, properly applied (you need a high pressure air "Schutz" style applicator and probes) will make a worthwhile investment.

If repeated on, say, a two yearly cycle, rust can be held at bay for a long, long time.

 

Check that Waxoyl is compatible with any wax already applied by the manufacturers, and if not choose another brand like Dinitrol, Morrisons etc.

 

I did mine myself, used 10 litres of black Waxoyl, and got covered in the stuff. My hair has now returned to it's glowing silver colour, but I quite liked the amber colour that black Waxoyl imparted!

 

Hallii

 

 

[ips]

I think it is worth doing but I would shop for a better deal than £600

[Brian Kirby]

I agree with Geoff (hallii).  Galvanising is no magic bullet against rust.  The protection process is electrolytic, and the zinc is the sacrificial anode.  Whenever the galvanised steel is exposed to moisture, in whatever form, the electrolysis rolls, and the zinc coating gets reduced in thickness. 

Motorhome chassis get carved around, and the cuts are supposed to be protected, but usually just with a zinc rich paint.  However, that will be unlikely to apply to holes drilled for fixings, and will not apply to any of the underbody sealing that gets chipped/eroded away by stones/grit on the road. 

The trick with galvanised steel is to paint it, so that the moisture doesn't get to the zinc.  However, inside hollow box sections, door panels, etc, all get much less paint than you see so, IMO, a wax coating, providing it is compatible with any wax injection carried out during production, can only be of benefit.  Don't forget condensation forms inside the hollow sections, and condensation is the perfect rust generating form of moisture, because it forms little beads of wet all over the surface to exploit any area where the zinc coating has been damaged.

What British Steel used to sell a tight coat galvanised strip, which was pre galvanised steel on coils, had an estimated life, before rusting, of 12 years - in a sheltered, low pollution, inland environment.  The underside of a road vehicle is exposed to a significantly more aggressive environment so, if the zinc becomes exposed, I wouldn't be surprised to see rust appearing after about 2 years.

[Bulletguy]

Brian Kirby - 2010-08-16 3:43 PM

 

I agree with Geoff (hallii).  Galvanising is no magic bullet against rust.

Not so sure about that Brian. It certainly helps!

 

The guy who used to live opposite me owned an Audi Coupe which looked like it had just come straight from the main dealers.......except it was sixteen years old! Not one spot of rust or bubbling to be seen anywhere, it was immaculate.

 

No idea if ALL models of Audi bodyshells are galvanised but they certainly give longer than average warranties.

 

[Bulletguy]

pelmetman - 2010-08-16 8:03 AM

I know having it Waxoilyed at this age is a bit like bolting the stable door after the horse has gone, but the chap who services all my vehicles offered to do the job for £75 8-)

Admitadly it was only the underneath, but seemed good value to me, he's doing the camper tomorrow B-)

Thats a damn good price 'pelmet'.

 

Are you SURE he's using waxoyl?!!!

[Brian Kirby]

Bulletguy - 2010-08-16 7:02 PM

Brian Kirby - 2010-08-16 3:43 PM I agree with Geoff (hallii).  Galvanising is no magic bullet against rust.

Not so sure about that Brian. It certainly helps! The guy who used to live opposite me owned an Audi Coupe which looked like it had just come straight from the main dealers.......except it was sixteen years old! Not one spot of rust or bubbling to be seen anywhere, it was immaculate. No idea if ALL models of Audi bodyshells are galvanised but they certainly give longer than average warranties.

But might you have missed this bit: "The trick with galvanised steel is to paint it, so that the moisture doesn't get to the zinc" ? 

That was my point.  If it is galvanised and then painted, and the paint is maintained in good condition, and all the hollow sections are fully dip painted and then wax coated, it will last a very long time indeed. 

However, looking under any vehicle is quite interesting, with raw galvanised members being bolted on to support radiators etc (or on our van the rear chassis extension).  Once they, and the retaining bolts, begin to go, the rust will start on the surrounding painted and galvanised metalwork. 

Yes it is good, and vehicles last far longer, in far better condition, than ever they used to, and no vehicle is going to last forever whatever you do with it - short of keeping it in your living room!

However, because inevitable damage is caused during use, and during servicing and parts replacements, that zinc coating is liable to become exposed and the wax treatments are then, IMO, beneficial. 

Also, vans spend a lot of time standing around, they must - look at the average mileages!  Standing around during winter is a recipe for condensation so, as I said, simply relying on the fact that bits are galvanised is, again IMO, a bit optimistic if you want to keep it, or simply maintain its condition and value for as long as possible.

[Guest pelmetman]

Bulletguy - 2010-08-16 7:05 PM

 

pelmetman - 2010-08-16 8:03 AM

I know having it Waxoilyed at this age is a bit like bolting the stable door after the horse has gone, but the chap who services all my vehicles offered to do the job for £75 8-)

Admitadly it was only the underneath, but seemed good value to me, he's doing the camper tomorrow B-)

Thats a damn good price 'pelmet'.

 

Are you SURE he's using waxoyl?!!!

 

Yes..................as it smells like waxoyl and it is the new black version which surprised me, I have used waxoyl myself in the mid 70's on a new honda Accord though I don't think it did much good as the Honda's in those days although reliable were made from crap steel, just as well I sold it within 18 months to Lt Commander at a profit >:-)

 

It is cheap but this is Lincolnshire and they tend to look after their regular customers, and it was only the underneath not in the door sections etc as I did on my Honda.

[Bulletguy]

Brian Kirby - 2010-08-16 7:59 PM

But might you have missed this bit: "The trick with galvanised steel is to paint it, so that the moisture doesn't get to the zinc" ?  That was my point.

Very true Brian. A car certainly benefits from a coat of paint plus it looks pretty too!:-D

But how do you account for galvanised aerial masting I have had outside my house now for the past 16 years showing little or no sign of deterioration or 'weathering' which has no paint on at all?

 

Brian Kirby - 2010-08-16 7:59 PM

Also, vans spend a lot of time standing around, they must - look at the average mileages!  Standing around during winter is a recipe for condensation......

Hit the nail on the head here.

 

If anything this is THE major cause of rusting with motorhomes/campervans/rv's as such a high percent spend their life doing nothing other than standing parked up on a drive. Each to their own but it's always puzzled me as to why some folk spend thousands on a static exhibition piece.

[Guest pelmetman]

Bulletguy - 2010-08-16 8:32 PM

 

Brian Kirby - 2010-08-16 7:59 PM

But might you have missed this bit: "The trick with galvanised steel is to paint it, so that the moisture doesn't get to the zinc" ?  That was my point.

Very true Brian. A car certainly benefits from a coat of paint plus it looks pretty too!:-D

But how do you account for galvanised aerial masting I have had outside my house now for the past 16 years showing little or no sign of deterioration or 'weathering' which has no paint on at all?

 

Brian Kirby - 2010-08-16 7:59 PM

Also, vans spend a lot of time standing around, they must - look at the average mileages!  Standing around during winter is a recipe for condensation......

Hit the nail on the head here.

 

If anything this is THE major cause of rusting with motorhomes/campervans/rv's as such a high percent spend their life doing nothing other than standing parked up on a drive. Each to their own but it's always puzzled me as to why some folk spend thousands on a static exhibition piece.

 

I agree, which probably explains why my 10 year old Transit works van needed so much work, where my 20 year old garaged camper only needs a couple of zits sorted (lol)

[insignia]

Thanks to you all for your comments and observations on the subject

[Brian Kirby]

Bulletguy - 2010-08-16 8:32 PM  But how do you account for galvanised aerial masting I have had outside my house now for the past 16 years showing little or no sign of deterioration or 'weathering' which has no paint on at all? ..........

Only the weight of zinc applied, the fact that most of it is (presumably) vertical so it drains freely, it is well ventilated so dries quickly, and possibly that you live in a low pollution and non-marine area.  Though, if it hot dipped to about 25 microns or more, it should do somewhere nearer (from memory) 25 years, maybe more - but one day the zinc will be electrolysed away and the rust will start.

There (or at least was!) is a BS on galvanising, that allows the approximate life of the coating to be calculated from the weight of zinc used and the type of environment to which the product is exposed.  I discovered it some years back, and it was quite an eye-opener, because up till then I had assumed getting something galvanised was the end of its problems!

[Mickt]

I understand that Waxoil is good for the metal parts, but what is best for the wooden floor

[Bulletguy]

Must admit Brian the 'science' of rust prevention is something i've never delved into apart from my younger days spent tinkering with old mini's when I went through no end of 'magic' rust preventers......all of which were expensive and made totally ludicrous promises, none of which were any use......with the exception of one. Zinc 182. And that DOES work!

 

Can't really beat the 'use it or lose it' theory. And thats the big problem with a lot of motorhome owners. They buy one, leave it standing for fifty weeks of the year, then wonder why it's disintegrating. The same would happen with ANY type of vehicle but motorhomes are notorious. You only have to look at the ridiculously low mileage on some.

 

A guy in my locality has a motorhome, admittedly an old one, but it's never moved now for years and is just standing in the drive rotting away. It's beyond repair and doubtful it will ever see a road ever again. OK it's his van so his choice, but to me it's criminal just to let something like that go to rot when someone else could possibly make use of it for parts if nothing else.

 

 

 

[Bulletguy]

pelmetman - 2010-08-16 8:49 PM

 

I agree, which probably explains why my 10 year old Transit works van needed so much work, where my 20 year old garaged camper only needs a couple of zits sorted (lol)

 

Pelmet

 

The campervan I used to own was a Transit 2.5DI. Unfortunately the previous owner had never used it much so to get it fit for MOT I had to spend a fair bit of money on welding.

 

The engine had a slight oil leak but this proved to be a saving grace as it had given the front chassis area and cross member a good coating of oil. The dirt would have put a lot of people off but not me as I knew that could have meant an engine out job if any sections around there had needed welding or replacing.

 

Transit panel vans are brilliant workhorses. Just a pity the panelling suffers from the dreaded tinworm as it's so thin. But at least all the panels are really dirt cheap. As for the running gear, the DI will just go on and on and on...........and on!!! Very 'agricultural' but that makes it simple and easy to maintain and relatively cheap too, not to mention the parts availability. Transits are everywhere. I had a repair done on mine in Bavaria which was sorted and back on the road in less than 24 hrs.

[Brian Kirby]

Bulletguy - 2010-08-17 5:28 PM Must admit Brian the 'science' of rust prevention is something i've never delved into apart from my younger days spent tinkering with old mini's when I went through no end of 'magic' rust preventers......all of which were expensive and made totally ludicrous promises, none of which were any use......with the exception of one. Zinc 182. And that DOES work! ............

A friend who was restoring a vintage car told me the best remedy bar none was phosphoric acid.  It converts rust (iron oxide) to iron phosphate.  You de-grease, remove any flakes etc, ideally with a wire brush or (I think they are called) a needle gun, till you get to more or less bright steel, paint it on, and leave it until any residual rust has turned black, which is the iron phosphate coating, rinse off, and then paint over that with a high-build zinc rich primer.  He then painted over the primer, and wax treated any bits that were difficult to reach and didn't show. 

All he had to do then, was re-fit the mechanicals, get the body back onto the chassis, re-trim it, re-paint it, and re-upholster the seats!  He's probably still at it!!  :-)

[art338]

Everyone is full of ideas on rust protection good or not so good; no one has yet made a comment on the grade of steel used in chassis manufacture. It has a cost.

 

I certainly have no idea, but steel is not simply just ‘a piece of steel’, it contains various elements including chrome and other corrosion resistant elements that will slow down the surface deterioration.

 

Chrome and other elements are expensive so a chassis manufacturer assesses the life of the chassis, 10 years, maybe 15 in everyday conditions, depends where you live, on the coast, or a desert, they could be made everlasting (at treble their cost) but what’s the point.

 

Personally I would never spend money on any preventative coating, everything has a life.

 

art

 

[Bulletguy]

Brian Kirby - 2010-08-17 5:50 PM

 

A friend who was restoring a vintage car told me the best remedy bar none was phosphoric acid.  It converts rust (iron oxide) to iron phosphate.  You de-grease, remove any flakes etc, ideally with a wire brush or (I think they are called) a needle gun, till you get to more or less bright steel, paint it on, and leave it until any residual rust has turned black, which is the iron phosphate coating, rinse off, and then paint over that with a high-build zinc rich primer.

 

Basically the same action of Zinc 182 Brian. Can be purchased in spray or brush on but I always used brush as it gave a thicker build. Only problem then was you'd spend ages flatting it into the bodywork to get a good finish.

 

It's not really how a motorhomer likes to spend his time and as you say, your mate is probably still at it!