Refusal to Perform Warranty Work: Auto-Sleeper

[Frank McAuley]

I have an Auto-Sleeper Wilton which is one year old . It has been plagued with poor build quality problems since new. The double bed when made-up has a 5" gap between it and the wall of the motorhome which means we have to stuff cushions in this gap to keep the bed in place and to stop us from falling through it.There is also a noticeable draught!

I have discussed this issue with another Auto-Sleeper owner who had a similar problem and he had new "proper fitting" cushions made and fitted which rectified the problem.

 

Auto-Sleeper have told me this morning that the 5" gap is acceptable and they will not be doing anything about it. They have also accepted that they have performed this remedial work before but will not do it for me.

 

I would also point out that they are carrying out other modifications to the mhome at this time through their local dealership. In short they are telling me that I have to put-up with this, in my opinion shoddy work,viz an expensive mhome with a bed which is kept in place by stuffing scatter cushions between it and the wall of the mhome!! This is not to be expected from a company which is trying to recover its place in the mhome industry!

 

May I please have your advice how to proceed with this matter?

[david lloyd]

Hi Frank

 

If a reasonable approach to the manufacturer has not provided a solution then the next port of call for me would be the local Trading Standards Office to get proper advice.

 

The problem here is likely to be that they will insist that you take the matter up with the supplying dealer to get it rectified as that is who your contract is with.

 

David

[Brambles]

Your description is quite hard to understand why it is a problem. Do you mean the mattress base has a 5 inch gap to wall so the mattress/cushions tend to fall through, or because bed is made up from sections of cushions they tend to separate and you fall down gap in middle.

Or am I being plain thick?

 

[Frank McAuley]

Hi Brambles

It's a rear lounge where the seats and back rests make-up the bed,thus: the seat cushions pull out horizontally and should lock when they meet and the back rests are then placed between the seat and the wall of the mhome to create a double bed. The problem is that there is a 5" gap between the back rest and the wall of the mhome and unless cushions are stuffed in that space the bed moves - sometimes the locking mechanism fails and there is an ungraceful "bottoming"! I am of the opinion that the Seat cushions are too narrow. They should be approx 2" broader and as the Wilton is a low-volume production the seats are probably not type specific - hence the prob. But we can sort something out and most defnitely my next mhome shall not be from the same stable!!

[mel wood]

Frank McAuley - 2010-08-23 2:08 PM

 

most defnitely my next mhome shall not be from the same stable!![/quote

 

Sorry to hear of your problems but whilst not knowing that particular model I am not surprised at the poor build quality and lack of concern shown.

 

Along with numerous other Auto-Sleepers' owners of recent models we have also been far from satisfied with the build quality of our 2008 van. Some of its initial problems should never have arisen - they should have been rectified at the factory before delivery.

 

Whilst at the Auto-Sleepers' service centre at Willersey last week we spoke to another owner (of a 13 year old vehicle) who told us that she was surprised to hear the previous day from 5 owners of new/recent Auto-Sleeper vehicles of major issues. The 13 year old vehicle was mainly trouble free and it was having a habitation check. (I don't think our cushions will last 13 years but apparently they are OK!)

 

Many of us would also be reluctant to buy another Auto-Sleepers' van.

 

Hope you get sorted out soon.

[Brian Kirby]

If you really want to pursue this, I can make three suggestions.

Write to the MD stating your dissatisfaction with the bed as supplied, and with their refusal to rectify yours where they have rectified others, and ask why you are being discriminated against.

Arrange to visit Willersey and take the matter up personally while there, trying to make sure you visit on a day and at a time when senior management are likely to be present, in case you need to try to escalate your complaint.

Pursue the dealer.  You will obviously first have to take up the defect with him, to give him a chance to make it good, and should then write to him confirming what is wrong and your conversation, including any offers or rejections made at the time, and giving him reasonable time to respond.  In the meantime, visit Trading Standards (TS) and seek their guidance on the possibility, if the dealers response is unhelpful, of getting correctly sized cushions made up at your own expense, and then suing the supplying dealer to recover your costs, on the basis that the goods as supplied were defective.  All this, and how to proceed further, should be explained to you by TS. 

As stated above, your contract is with the dealer and that offers the only legal route for redress.  The warranty is offered by the manufacturer and means exactly what it says in writing, no more, no less, and is virtually subject to his interpretation alone.  It is now theoretically possible to sue a manufacturer for non-compliance, but to succeed, you'd almost need a warranty clause saying they'd replace any seat cushions that failed to make up a comfortable bed!

[Frank McAuley]

The dealer states that he can't rectify the problem with the bed because Auto-Sleeper will not authorise it so what action can I take against A/S - if any? :'(

[Guest JudgeMental]

Frank McAuley - 2010-08-23 7:14 PM

 

The dealer states that he can't rectify the problem with the bed because Auto-Sleeper will not authorise it so what action can I take against A/S - if any? :'(

 

But as Brian explained your contract is with the dealer? it is completely his responsibility...dont be fobbed of!

 

What goes on between the dealer and manufacturer is of no real concern to you. Don't get drawn into that old chesnut...

 

Trading standards!

[LordThornber]

Hi Frank, please don't lynch me for this but is there a reason for it taking you a year to get to where you are now with this situation, or is it simply the dealer dragging it out?

 

Martyn

[Brambles]

I am maybe way of the mark, but one of the problems seems to be the lock mechanism for the bed failing and then this results in the bed moving. So is the matter just a faulty locking mechanism. For me I see the gap as a benefit, but of course I have not seen it, and reason is because it means you can get your hand down easily to tuck in sheets and also a place for your duvet to hang down over edge of mattress to keep you snuggled in. I hate duvets bunched against a wall. So maybe the bed could be seen as some as an advantage where as to others it is a negative. Just exploring possible arguments against your wish to have it modified free of charge. Devils advocate!

[rolandrat]

Do Marquis now own Auto-Sleeper?

[747]

Hi Frank,

 

When you got the literature with your new van, were there any diagrams in the handbook to show how the bed is made up?

 

If so, does your bed look the same as shown in the handbook? If not then you need Autosleepers to explain the 5" gap and rectify same.

[Brian Kirby]

Frank McAuley - 2010-08-23 7:14 PM The dealer states that he can't rectify the problem with the bed because Auto-Sleeper will not authorise it so what action can I take against A/S - if any? :'(

Frank

The question, is whether the gap constitutes a defect.  Only you can decide.  If you consider it is, you will have weakened your case by not, apparently, drawing this to the attention of the dealer immediately it was noticed.

I say this, because it might be claimed it is a deliberate design feature intended to make bed making more easy, or similar, as suggested above.  It might be argued that you initially accepted this was not a defect, only later becoming convinced it was, when this other person told you his cushions were replaced under warranty to rectify the same problem.  Of course, one is entitled to change one's mind, but one does not aid ones case by doing so after one year!

Legally, it is the dealer who is responsible for the defect so, it is the dealer who must rectify the defect.  However, he does have to be told that the bed is considered defective, and given reasonable opportunity to put it right.  If you decide to sue, you will have to prove that he was told, that he was given reasonable opportunity to rectify the problem, and that he declined to do so.  That is why the letters are so important.

Whether AS agree the gap is a defect or not is irrelevant.  AS did not sell you the van, the dealer did, and as above, it is the dealer who is legally liable.  You may be able to persuade AS, but I will stick my neck out and say you haven't a cat in hell's chance of bringing a successful case against them over this.

This is a matter of your contractual right, under statute law, against the dealer.  You have no legal or other rights against AS.  Sorry to labour the point, but I sense you are a bit reluctant to take on the dealer, against whom you may have a case, and would prefer to take on AS, against whom you haven't the ghost of a case.  With the delay of one year already ticking against you, don't waste time on AS except, as I originally suggested, to explore with them at senior management level if they are amenable to change their attitude.  You need to get cracking, however, whatever you decide, as the more water that flows under this bridge, the lower your chances of success via either route will sink.

[Frank McAuley]

In th part of the country where I live there was NO Auto-Sleeper dealer but an exemployee of another mhome dealer knew the Sales Director at A/S and the latter agreed to supply the veh to me. To cut a long story short my wife and I visited the A/S factory and drew-up a spec for the mhome ,paid the deposit and went home to await delivery- which was 13 weeks overdue and full of probs.

 

So basically A/S have "made their sales director redundant"(as he told me at the time) and are saying they didn't sell me the mhome SO who do I pursue?

 

I considered rejecting the veh at receipt but was assured by the CEO of A/S that all would be put right by their newly appointed dealer.The prob with the beds was highlighted at the initial stage and they have tried to put it right ever since but without success yet now they say it is acceptable!

 

I have also ascertained today that the pullout pantry needed modification but neither A/S nor their local dealer notified me until I questioded strange noises coming from it!

[Rayjsj]

Frank,

The supply of this van sounds like a can of worms ! but i still think you should do what Brian suggested in his first post, and take it back to Willersey during a weekday, after first sending a letter to the MD and telling them the problem , telling them that you are coming and when.After all the van was supplied New from their factory.

Then camp out there until it gets fixed. Ray

[neil malcolmson]

Frank how many cushions make up your bed ?

 

I have 2 main seat cushions 2 backrests and 2 thin cushions of about 5 inches each ? is this the same as your set up ?

 

Cheers

Neil

[Rayjsj]

Frank McAuley - 2010-08-23 11:04 PM

 

 

 

So basically A/S have "made their sales director redundant"(as he told me at the time) and are saying they didn't sell me the mhome SO who do I pursue?

 

 

 

Frank,

You must still have a 'Bill of sale' and reciept. who's logo is on It ?

Whether this guy was redundant or not should make no differance.

Doesn't sound straightfoward, and i thought the 'Wilton' was a standard Ford based Autosleeper ? presumably the 'Spec' was just options

ordered ? Did the Autosleeper CEO put his 'Assurance' in writing ? :-S Ray

[Brian Kirby]

Frank McAuley - 2010-08-23 11:04 PM In th part of the country where I live there was NO Auto-Sleeper dealer but an exemployee of another mhome dealer knew the Sales Director at A/S and the latter agreed to supply the veh to me. To cut a long story short my wife and I visited the A/S factory and drew-up a spec for the mhome ,paid the deposit and went home to await delivery- which was 13 weeks overdue and full of probs. So basically A/S have "made their sales director redundant"(as he told me at the time) and are saying they didn't sell me the mhome SO who do I pursue? .........................

I assume you made two payments, one for the deposit and the other for the balance.  I assume both payments were made against invoices.  As Ray says, whose name is on the invoices, and to whom were those payments made?  Your bank records should show who received your money.  If that is AS, all well and good: AS are the vendor and you contract is with them.  If it is to the ex Sales Director things will be much more difficult, especially if he set up some kind of company to receive your payment, and pay AS the wholesale price.  If the Sales Director was on AS payroll at the time he sold you the van, and if he presented the sale to you as a direct sale from AS, with supporting paperwork bearing AS name and company number etc, even if only for the deposit, I think AS are still the vendor, but the water is muddy and you need legal advice on what counts as the contract.  I think you should start with Trading Standards.

[flicka]

rolandrat - 2010-08-23 7:54 PM

 

Do Marquis now own Auto-Sleeper?

 

Other way around. - Auto-Sleeper own Marquis.

 

Re a warranty claim for our Van, purchased from Marquis, who agreed we could source a battery locally & forward the Invoice to them.

We received Cheque payment from Auto-Sleeper.

[neil malcolmson]

neil malcolmson - 2010-08-24 10:03 AM

 

Frank how many cushions make up your bed ?

 

I have 2 main seat cushions 2 backrests and 2 thin cushions of about 5 inches each ? is this the same as your set up ?

 

Cheers

Neil

 

 

Frank I normaly use my bed as 2 singles, I had never made it up as a double until last night,to check for you.

 

Mine is a snug fit across the back of the van.

 

I have pdf of the A/S brochure that states thr bed size is 7ft 3 inches X 6ft

I could email you the brochure if required.

 

Cheers

Neil

[Brambles]

Neil, can you confirm you used the two 5 inch cushions...looks like this may be the answer.

[neil malcolmson]

Brambles - 2010-08-25 10:40 AM

 

Neil, can you confirm you used the two 5 inch cushions...looks like this may be the answer.

 

Yes I can confirm...." seat base's X 2 backrest x 2 cushions that sit under the backrest X 2

[Frank McAuley]

Hi Folks

 

I was successful in persuading a caring female member of the A/S staff to encourage the CEO to speak to me two days ago. I asked her to convey to the CEO that it would be a civilised conversation and that,upon hearing my "side of the story"and viewing certain photographic evidence, his judgement would be final and I would walk away.

 

We had a short conversation during which he intimated that his decision was based on advice from the "service Dpt" and that he had not viewed the evidence. He undertook to view the photographs which I would send to him and come back to me.

 

The CEO spoke to me this morning stating my assertion was correct and that they would be ordering new cushions for my mhome. He further stated he would be conversing with the Service Dpt and my local dealer to ascertain how they had got it "wrong"!

 

I personally do not believe there was any malicious act involved but simply a local dealer using a mobile phone camera instead of a proper digital camera. The CEO was very specific in asserting that the photos I sent him "swung the deal".

 

It has taken me one year to have my mhome "put-right" but as I head off for a jaunt round France I now feel I,ve got the mhome I ordered.

 

Conclusion: Be wary of inexperienced dealers who are merely "playing at " their profession to the cost of a long suffering public. A non- compliant and autocratic Service Manager at both ends,ie dealer and manufacturer, is a pain in the backside.

 

May I,once again,thankyou all for your advice and help in resolving this matter. There are a lot of very wise and experienced mhomers on this site- a powerful tool! (lol)

[neil malcolmson]

About Time you had a result Frank.

 

Enjoy your trip.

[rolandrat]

Can we say 10/10 for the CEO?