Newbie needs advice - van conversion vs coachbuilt

[flicka]

Agent Fruit - 2010-08-25 7:15 PM

 

neil malcolmson - 2010-08-25 12:34 PM

 

Have you thought about a compact a-class ?

http://www.highbridgecaravans.co.uk/usedmotorhomedetails.php?ID=00020978

 

No I hadn't. I didn't realise they were so compact. Now you're going to have to explain what the difference is and why you'd buy one vs any of the others :-D

 

Hi Jo

I see why you are asking the question Neil's link isn't working for me.

See http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/classifieds/search.asp

& select "A" Class for examples of "A" Class mot0rhomes.

Many of the European manufacturers have these in their range, no current UK manufacturer producing "A" Class (to my knowledge) Although Autotrail, Swift & Elddis have done in the past.

 

In general terms.

 

Typically an "A" Class motorhome is built on a Chassis without the Cab (i.e. with the engine & Seats only ) & the whole body is built & mounted by the manufacturer. With the screen further forward than a "normal" Cab.

Layouts vary, but usually include a "drop-down" bed which comes down to use the cab area (over the drivers & passengers seats + part of the interior immediately behind)

Coachbuilts are split into two sub-categories - Overcab & Low Profile

Overcab - self explanatory - double bed over the cab i.e. the bulge above the windscreen. Some are not really suited to 2 adults.

same link as above, but select "Overcab Coachbuilt"

 

Low Profile - usually no bulge (or only small) giving a more streamlined look & IMHO much more aerodynamic than either "A" Class or Overcabs.

again same link as above, but select "Low Profile"

 

PVC's (Panel Van Conversions) again are sub-divided into

Fixed Roof, High Top & Raising Roof

Fixed Roof - Van manufacturer's normal Van with high level roof - All Steel

 

High Top - Steel roof (low level) removed & a fibre glass roof fitted by the Motorcaravan manufacturer.

 

Raising Roof - Steel Roof removed & an Elevating roof fitted by Motorcaravan manufacturer. Sides are generally fabric / canvas, but some are fibre glass panels.

 

Hope this clarifies for you.

 

 

 

[Agent Fruit]

Aha, that explains a lot of the confusion for me. Thank you. So I'm looking at Low Profile, PVC Fixed Roof or High Top by the looks of things....

 

Still haven't found the perfect one though! Lots of the PVC's look great , but all fall down on the single beds being too narrow. I've edited this a few times with my sieve brain failing me....it is indeed the Knaus vans that I'm wanting opinions on...

 

J

[flicka]

Hi Jo

Knaus, a German manufacturer, went belly-up at the start of the recession.

Similar build quality to other German manufacturers, (Hobby, Hymer, Dethleffs & Burstner.)

They were using the Renault chassis/cab for many of their models & were just switching to more on the Fiat.

 

Good looking Low profiles (especially Ti Sun range) & "A" Class motorhomes, but no so their Coachbuilts (IMO)

 

So you will be looking at the Used market, downside will be if any body damage Knaus are not there to supply parts.

Beware any Knaus vans offered as New, as they will have stood for 2+ years.

[Agent Fruit]

flicka - 2010-08-25 10:57 PM

 

Hi Jo

Knaus, a German manufacturer, went belly-up at the start of the recession.

Similar build quality to other German manufacturers, (Hobby, Hymer, Dethleffs & Burstner.)

 

Worth knowing. I wouldn't have guessed as they still have a website. Any idea how come? Is that so dealers can buy old stock? Shame as the vans look ideal in terms of flexibility of sleeping arrangements, and they're narrow too. Is it a real problem to own a van that's been discontinued? The base vehicle and engine still exists, so mechanicals are still available I assume?

 

J

[neil malcolmson]

Hymer Exis on a ford is only 214 wide

 

http://www.hymer.com/cms/en/motorhomes/Integrated/exsis-i/Layouts.html

[neil malcolmson]

I.H Tio M

 

http://www.ihmotorhomes.com/model-range-mainmenu-8/tio-m.html

[lennyhb]

Agent Fruit - 2010-08-25 11:05 PM

 

 

 

Worth knowing. I wouldn't have guessed as they still have a website. Any idea how come? Is that so dealers can buy old stock? Shame as the vans look ideal in terms of flexibility of sleeping arrangements, and they're narrow too. Is it a real problem to own a van that's been discontinued? The base vehicle and engine still exists, so mechanicals are still available I assume?

 

J

 

They were rescued & brought from the administrators by a financial company and are still in business.

 

 

 

 

[flicka]

Agent Fruit - 2010-08-25 11:05 PM

 

flicka - 2010-08-25 10:57 PM

 

Hi Jo

Knaus, a German manufacturer, went belly-up at the start of the recession.

Similar build quality to other German manufacturers, (Hobby, Hymer, Dethleffs & Burstner.)

 

Worth knowing. I wouldn't have guessed as they still have a website. Any idea how come? Is that so dealers can buy old stock? Shame as the vans look ideal in terms of flexibility of sleeping arrangements, and they're narrow too. Is it a real problem to own a van that's been discontinued? The base vehicle and engine still exists, so mechanicals are still available I assume?

 

J

 

I stand corrected, just did a search & found Knaus are producing Motorhomes / Caravans.

They will be at the Düsseldorf show.

 

UK Agents are shown as :-

Lowdham Outdoor Leisure Ltd.

 

Crossland Hill

HD4 5NU Huddersfield

Tel. (+44) 845 634 9406

Fax. 1484 642615 Email info@lowdhams.com

Web www.lowdhams.com

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Lowdham Leisureworld

 

Lowdham Road, Gunthorpe

NG147ES Nottingham

Tel. (+44) 845 055 2179

Fax. 115 9663124 Email stevesharpe@lowdhams.com

Web www.lowdhams.com

 

May be worth giving them a ring to see if they will have any Knaus Vans at the NEC.

 

 

[LordThornber]

Agent Fruit - 2010-08-25 10:41 PM

 

Still haven't found the perfect one though!

 

J

 

And nor will you do either.

 

My take on the subject is get in there and get your hands dirty. By that I mean hiring, borrowing or take whatever road, (no pun intended) you choose to give yourself a sniff of living in motorhome.

 

How folk can possibly shell out huge sums of money, and 40K is a lot of money, expect to move into a completely alien world without first experiencing motorhome living is beyond me.

 

The clowns, and they are my personal favourite, that buy a van and end up flogging it X number of months later, stating that it's stuck on the drive and we're not using it enough. What did they expect? The van to give them an extra months holiday entitlement? Or if retired, the van to tap them on the shoulder and drive them to Spain and back? Priceless.

 

You'll find folk on here only recommend their own model/make of motorhome, nothing wrong with that but their needs/views cannot be replicated by you or anyone else, it's nonsense to think otherwise.

 

I'm not telling you to go down the road we took, merely showing how we achieved our Nirvana. Or as near as we could...

 

We found our "perfect" (zzzz), van by buying a perfectly serviceable and useable 17 year old VW and establishing what we'd like to be able to do better by discovering it's limitations.

 

Some would argue that we'd have discovered said limitations earlier had we done some research, no thanks, we wanted to get away from airports and occasional tent camping.

 

Onto next van and found more, (albeit many less obviously) limitations which led us to where we are now. Almost zero limitations.

 

Those 2 previous purchases cost us practically nothing in the bigger scheme of things, and gave us a whole lot of fun whilst on the "journey" as they say these days.

 

Everybody on here will have their own view on this and doubtless there will be some foaming at the mouth at our way of doing things but I struggle to comprehend how they can expect folk, (you and countless others), to take advice, albeit well intentioned, which largely won't apply.

 

Views about resale value, build quality, lighting, dealer service etc etc, yes they're relevant but for some folk they're not the holy grail. Some folk will be able to cope with ease with the odd screw that needs putting back in, some take it as a tragedy and go running to Trading Standards.

 

Good luck with your search Agent Fruit, interesting user name by the way.

 

Martyn

 

 

 

 

[oldlowie]

I would take issue with the assertion that PVC's are more secure than coachbuilts.

 

Any 'van with plastic caravan windows will never be secure. >:-(

[Randonneur]

Have a look at www.font-vendome.fr they are converters near Brantome in France. We looked at the Bel Horizon, bed comes down from ceiling, brilliant kitchen and washroom, but a bit out of our price range. They have an enormous setup and also a secondhand pitch as well.

 

This is the secondhand Font Vendome site http://perigord-vdl.fr/occasions-1220

[Guest JudgeMental]

oldlowie - 2010-08-26 10:27 AM

 

I would take issue with the assertion that PVC's are more secure than coachbuilt.

 

Any 'van with plastic caravan windows will never be secure. >:-(

 

while I except what you say about the windows, panel van doors can be secured with commercial insurance rated locks, whereas most coachbuilt can be forced open with a screwdriver :-S

 

this is a good thread on panel vans

 

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=17849&posts=108

 

 

[Fionablueinky]

Hi

 

We use to have coachbuilt van but when my son stopped coming with us we changed to a van convertion we go to the Lake district a lot and although we didn't let the coachbuilt van stop us going where we wanted its so much more enjoyable driving in the van, and also the cats whiskers princapal applies, if the front goes through you know the back will go through as well.

 

We got rid of our 2nd car when we bought the van and I dont think anything of jumping in the new van to drop my son off or go shopping which I never would have done in the old van its just so much easier to drive and park.

 

We have a Trigano Tribute 665 sport which is the same layout as the Adria twin with the double bed at the back and reading your post I thought it may suit you, I also have a bad back as well.

 

The double bed at the back is 4ft 7in wide and is very comfy with a window at the side and 2 windows in the back which makes it very light and airy in the day time so its great for haveing a lie down if your backs bad and reading a book or just chilling out, theres a massive under bed storage area which will take loads of gear, which you will probably have if your away for months at a time, but you could also section off an area at the front and take off one of the doors inside for an area for your dog, it would easly take a dog crate or if you dont use one your dogs bed and it would give it its own area.

 

At the front theres the 2 swivel seats and a bench seat with a table between, I usually sit on the passenger seat and if you pull it forward you can get your feet on the bench seat, but even better if your on your own is to swivel both seats to face each other and you get a really good back rest but you can put your legs up on the other seat , it was great last week looking out over the sea through the windscreen and reading my book when I was away on my own.

 

The kitchens small but we manage well, the tables next to the kitchen and ive added some more worktop coming out from under the bed, and ive just put a microwave in the wardrobe and shelved it out which is a much better use of space, it dosn't have an oven but I use a double skillet instead so dont really miss the oven.

 

It has underslung tanks but we had an tank heater fitted and I insulated the pipes and tank as well and managed in -9 degrees in January in york in the snow, left the waste tank open to drain into a bowl, if you plan on going abroad to ski then you would have to keep your water inside, but over here I was pleased with how the van coped, we where snug in the van, the only difference to our coachbuilt van was when you opened the door as is much wider and a bit drafty if you stand there with the door open like my husband.

 

Theres a Tribute website see the link below for tribby.co.uk which will give you lots of information about the 3 different layouts and theres quiet a few photos of the different vans within the posts.

 

http://www.tribby.co.uk/forum/index.php?sid=ca97b5fe60901cd218b916de0303555f

 

Hope I havent gone on to much.

 

Fiona

[Agent Fruit]

LordThornber - 2010-08-26 10:06 AM

 

Everybody on here will have their own view on this and doubtless there will be some foaming at the mouth at our way of doing things but I struggle to comprehend how they can expect folk, (you and countless others), to take advice, albeit well intentioned, which largely won't apply.

 

 

I'm finding it incredibly useful to hear everyone's experiences. I can take what I think is pertinent to me, make a list of those bits, look at the photos and recommendations, rule them out, add them to the wish list, add them to the maybe list, add them to the 'that will make me look incredibly cool' list, and then go to the NEC at least knowing that PVC means Panel Van Conversion, rather than wondering why there's a stand for rubberwear amongst all the motorhomes, and more to the point, wondering where it is.

 

I'd never have even thought to have considered what the sides of the vehicle were made of ie steel vs aluminium, but actually it'd be a really important factor to me. I do take the Cornish hedges very close sometimes, as the sides of my car are testimony to. Nothing to do with 'poor spatial awareness' I might add

;-)

 

I've spent long enough in a VW campervan to know that I never want to spend another night in one. Two nights was plenty thanks, and absolutely none of the features are on my wish list. The cat's whiskers comment on here a few posts back is a great one for my list.....great point. The more practical it is, the less likely it is to sit in my drive as an ornament, and let's face it, there is something rather cool about a van isn't there (lol) despite the lack of space. And the water tanks in winter.....didn't know that.....and the security locks.....and loads of other manufacturers that I'd never heard of....etc...

 

So the next step, as you rightly point out, is to try to find one or two to hire.....less easy. If anyone knows of a hire company that has them, let me know. I can only find one company that hires Tregano's which I know are too small/wrong layouts for me (though thank you for the recent post about them.....nearly right van, but not quite).

 

Btw, another question.....Timberland never gets many mentions but looks an interesting size. Good, bad, indifferent?

 

Thanks for the massively helpful answers so far. I'll go to the NEC with a shred of understanding, which will save me several layers of shoe leather.

 

Jo

[flicka]

Agent Fruit - 2010-08-27 4:26 PM

 

Btw, another question.....Timberland never gets many mentions but looks an interesting size. Good, bad, indifferent?

 

Jo

 

Timberland were mainly on the Renault Master, which is currently phased out for the new Van. So now have models on the Fiat also.

Good build quality, don't see many moans & groans.

Will be interesting to see what they display at the NEC Show.

As well as their standard lay-outs, many are bespoke build so prices tend to be higher.

http://www.timberlandmotorhomes.com/timberland-motorhomes/

 

Also look at IH Motorhomes - bit more expensive, similar set-up (standard & bespoke builds) & regular Award winners. (Not currently showing any Renault base new vehicles on website)

http://www.ihmotorhomes.com/

[colin]

Agent Fruit - 2010-08-27 4:26 PM

Btw, another question.....Timberland never gets many mentions but looks an interesting size. Good, bad, indifferent?

 

I can remember the days when Timberland where head and shoulders above the rest, nowadays tired and lacklustre layouts at a premium price! they can't even be bothered to finish the rear doors 'properly'. And as for the fiasco over pretending the company was trading as normal, when infact they went bust and had a 'under the counter' buyout by the MD >:-(

[Guest JudgeMental]

why a single person living in Cornwall with all those narrow roads would want to put up with the hassle of a wide coachbuilt is beyond me......a PVC is far more multi purpose and refined and they are nothing like the old VW's

 

apart from the financial problems with Timberland their prices are daft.......Much better vans available from Germany. These below from about early 30k including vat

 

http://tiny.cc/x942e

 

and this slightly longer one with single beds

 

http://tiny.cc/gsqdj

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

Randonneur - 2010-08-26 10:44 AM Have a look at www.font-vendome.fr they are converters near Brantome in France. We looked at the Bel Horizon, bed comes down from ceiling, brilliant kitchen and washroom, but a bit out of our price range. They have an enormous setup and also a secondhand pitch as well. This is the secondhand Font Vendome site http://perigord-vdl.fr/occasions-1220

Just for info, now owned by Trigano.  So many names, so few companies!  Funny old world ain't it?  :-)