LordThornber Posted August 26, 2010 Share Posted August 26, 2010 I bought a new 20m food grade hosepipe in April this year and it cost about £31. Anyway, we took it to France having only used it 2 or 3 times prior to leaving. I hooked it up and it burst here there and everywhere but muddled through with it. I took it back for a replacement, no problem there, but I've just collected it today and the cost has risen to £41!! A £10 rise in 4 months max. What's that all about? Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred grant Posted August 26, 2010 Share Posted August 26, 2010 why pump food throo your hosepipe lordy me ansum. much better to get a drinking water quality hose if your spendin money my biddy. was it one of those lay flat jobbies. dont bovver. get a proper job. layflatfred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlowie Posted August 26, 2010 Share Posted August 26, 2010 If you have got the receipt m'lord, get a refund for your 41 squid and buy a garden hose. The reason for this because you should NEVER drink water out of a tank, however 'clean' you think it is. Water is a living thing and has a shelf-life of around 24 hours. Don't even clean your teeth with the stuff, unless you want a sore throat... :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred grant Posted August 27, 2010 Share Posted August 27, 2010 u bin on the cider again my biddy? f Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlowie Posted August 27, 2010 Share Posted August 27, 2010 fred grant - 2010-08-27 8:14 PM u bin on the cider again my biddy? f 30 years in the water industry, Fred. To mistake 'fresh water' for 'drinking water' costs lives... :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilote742 Posted August 27, 2010 Share Posted August 27, 2010 Was wondering what your views are on water filter systems, are they worth fitting? Philip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlowie Posted August 27, 2010 Share Posted August 27, 2010 pilote742 - 2010-08-27 9:07 PM Was wondering what your views are on water filter systems, are they worth fitting? Philip Not really, but then I probably would say that. :'( Water filters can certainly make water taste better, but they will never be able to filter out the real nasties, e.g. e-coli, cryptosporidium, etc. The only effective way to eradicate these bugs is with Chlorine, which is added to drinking water (in the UK) as a legal requirement. Chlorine has a fairly short effective life, hence my earlier post. Filters can remove the Chlorine taste, giving the illusion that the water is more palatable, but it is not more potable. In the UK water supplied up to a tap will be 100% potable (a bit of a waste of energy when you think a lot of it is used for bathing and washing), but once it reaches the tap anything can happen. Ever seen anyone rinsing out their dunny at the drinking tap? - You will. >:-( My point about motorhome water tanks is that they are rarely in constant use, and can be filled from any old water point, rendering them unfit for potable water. Best use a small container for drinking/teeth cleaning water. Any forum dwellers had a slight catch in the throat after a couple of nights in the 'van? It's not the damp duvet. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody. Posted August 27, 2010 Share Posted August 27, 2010 I only use the water from the tank for washing and showering , i always carry 2 x 6 or 8pint milk bottles with me , these are filled regularly with fresh water and i use this water for drinks cleaning teeth etc , never had a problem yet . :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
art338 Posted August 27, 2010 Share Posted August 27, 2010 Good on you Lowry, never did go on water filters, or water anything. like you say makes the water look pretty and thats all. Run it through a piece of kitchen roll maybe but we never even do that. We drink it straight out the tap, never a problem in 80 odd years, if in doubt boil it. Regarding hose I use the normal garden hose for everything with the occasional spider or wood lice passing through, not a problem they're all edible anyway. art Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
art338 Posted August 27, 2010 Share Posted August 27, 2010 Testing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
art338 Posted August 27, 2010 Share Posted August 27, 2010 Martyn, Tell me please, what ever makes you think a food grade hose is any different from any other hose, a hose is a hose is a hose. Gordon Bennet it makes me whince, all these ideas that people have. Do other hoses state they are NOT FOOD GRADE, how's about if ALL hoses are food grade, what then, and there's nothing to say they are not! What goes into various hoses to make them different? Nothing. What makes a hose any grade? They are only ever produced from plastic granules in various colours or a colour additive added to clear granules, all derived from oil. The granules are heated past water boiling point temp; so where are the nasties? A colour additive is a handfull of coloured granules to a bucket full of clear ones. Its just like the word "Organic." A carrot is a carrot is a carrot, nothing more nothing less, a carrot will only take up its correct amount of nutrients, be they cow muck or pellets from a bag. A chemical is a chemical is a chemical, as simple as that. Do not believe what "The market" (The producer) will tell you.Most of the world is conned into believing what they're told! art Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted August 28, 2010 Share Posted August 28, 2010 art338 - 2010-08-27 11:23 PM ...Do other hoses state they are NOT FOOD GRADE, how's about if ALL hoses are food grade, what then, and there's nothing to say they are not!... I've seen instances where the packaging of hoses has specifically warned that the product should not be used to provide a potable water-supply. Presumably the manufacturers of such hoses haven't offered this advice just for entertainment value. I use a common-or-garden garden hose to fill our motorhome's fresh-water tank before leaving home and, during our travels, top up the tank via an elderly 10m Black and Decker-branded cassette-hose scrounged from my neighbour some years ago. As a token prophylactic gesture I normally run plenty of water through the hose before beginning to fill the tank in the hope that this will wash out 'bugs' that I strongly suspect will inevitably have taken up residence in a protected wet environment like a hose's interior. I don't THINK we use water from the motorhome's tank for drinking as my wife is addicted to tea and pretty fussy about the taste of the water she uses to make it. (Me, I just drink whatever she puts in front of me (though not tea!)) Consequently, we follow Woody's practice and carry our drinking water in plastic bottles that are regularly filled from (hopefully!) 'safe' water taps during our travels and discarded on our return home. As we use the water in the tank for cooking, washing dishes and faces, showering and, in my case at least, cleaning (false) teeth, I'm not really convinced there's necessarily any real benefit in choosing not to drink it too. After all, when I'm showering I'm also breathing and I'm bound to be inhaling significant quantities of the water mist swirling around within the shower-compartment. There are products designed to sterilise water systems and, once the system is 'clean', other products to maintain for extended periods the health of potable water stored in the sterilsed system. The latter normally employ silver-ion technology and a well-known example often advised for leisure-vehicle applications is Certisil Argento. http://www.all4boat.com/shop/boats-and-accessories/drinking-water/argento.html Of course, as Oldlowie warns, even if, after having rigorously sterilised your motorhome's water system, having filled it up with potable water in first-class condition via a hose intended to carry potable water, and then having added a 'maintainer' like Certisil Argento, you subsequently top up the tank with contaminated water, you've got a serious potential problem if that water gets inside you. Sterilants like Milton may be effective in dealing with water contamination and still leave the water fit to drink, but my own experience is that they also introduce a taste that's hardly pleasant (and, because of their chlorine component, they may not do the metal in your motorhome's water system much good). Specialised filters are available that claim to produce 'good' water from 'bad'. See http://www.purewateronline.co.uk/ These seem to be popular with motorcaravanners and a forum SEARCH on "Naturepure" will retrieve plenty of previous threads. Not sure how buyers of such filters can reliably assess their effectiveness unless they deliberately feed water known to be heavily contaminated through the filter and see if what comes out of the tap affects them health-wise. Perhaps you just have faith... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted August 28, 2010 Author Share Posted August 28, 2010 art338 - 2010-08-27 11:23 PM Martyn, Tell me please, what ever makes you think a food grade hose is any different from any other hose, a hose is a hose is a hose. art Hi Art, quite simple really. When we first used garden hosepipe, i.e. traditional B&Q pipe, we didn't like the taint the water had when making a brew. This was in a brand new van. So I made enquiries and learnt about the food grade pipe. Used it and the taint wasn't there. No other research except good old taste in the mouth. Have you made a brew or drank water from YOUR water tank from B&Q hosepipe and enjoyed it? Yes, good for you. No, try the food grade . They can rename it dog food grade pipe if they want, it gets our vote because we can drink the water or brews without shuddering. Old Lowie, call me cavalier or any other adjective you choose, but we've been drinking out of 2 brand new motorhome water tanks for 10 years with no issues, and certainly no sore throats. As you said yourself in the chinese lanterns post, "weary willies, thou shalt not"... Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
art338 Posted August 28, 2010 Share Posted August 28, 2010 Each for his own I guess, we use bottled water for drinking and so far have not had to drink from the tank, however if it were tainted from wherever I would boil it. I'm not convinced that there is a genuine food quality pipe, changing the plastic granules would produce a different taste I agree. I worked in the plastics industry and the only knowledge i have regarding cleanliness is the production of medical assessories where they are obliged to work in ultra high quality clean rooms, my guess is that this revolves around clean handing more than clean grade plastics. I will ask one of the companies I dealt with. art Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
art338 Posted August 28, 2010 Share Posted August 28, 2010 I’ve just talked to my pal who runs a large company that produce high grade medical quality plastic items. He’s been into plastics for 35 years to my knowledge, and whom I’ve worked with many times. Medical equipment There are two categories of plastic. (a) Items that go inside the body and (b) those that assist the medical profession. Plastic items that go inside the body must be of a grade that will not be contaminated by DNA. Food grade piping Plastic melts @ 250c, he like me, cannot see any difference in a plastic that is termed food grade. The only difference in quality that I can suggest is that an article produced ‘straight’ from new granules is of a ‘specific grade’. Whereas a plastic that contains ‘recycled material’ is also of a ‘specific grade’. Many plastic components contain recycled material from ‘short shots’ or mis-formed shapes. They are simply granulated into small pieces and re-melted. They will be obviously of a lesser quality and maybe prone to a shorter life. He advises me that within his company they have plastics specialists. He will make enquiries of them regarding how a basic material can be produced to a specific grade or quality and therefore termed food grade. We are away next week so he will email me with some technical answers that I will publish under a separate heading. art Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted August 28, 2010 Author Share Posted August 28, 2010 Good effort Art, it's not something that's keeping me awake at night but I'm curious. One can only speak as one finds, and our pipe usage reflects as such. You, (and lots of others no doubt) use bottled water, that would be a complete and utter ball ache for me when I've got a serviceable tank and plumbing system that has served us well with no ill effects. But only because of what I've already said, the water is fine from our tank (s), both having been under our ownership. Now if it had been bought second hand then I might be faffing about with sterilizing tablets and/or bottled water. By the way, I didn't have to pay the extra £10 for the pipe it was just handed over. Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred grant Posted August 28, 2010 Share Posted August 28, 2010 so were does bottled water come from then me ansums??? says fred totally tung in cheek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted August 28, 2010 Share Posted August 28, 2010 If using your Tank for drinking water purposes, it is sencible to use Food Grade Hose. At least before entering the Motorhome Tank it will not be contaminated w by PVC leachate. (the "plastic" taste) Their are stringent UK & European Regulations, as there are elsewhere globally, regarding the specification of Hoses suitable for the Food Inductry, similarly seperate Regulations for Hoses suitable for Medical use. e.g. Food & Drink Hose Regulations Conforms to Statutory Instrument 3145 The Plastic Materials and Articles in Contact with Food Regulations 1992. A typical specification of a Food Grade Hose resistant to a wide range of chemicals. • Good flexibility. • Silicone free. • Abrasive resistance - good. • Kink resistance - good. • Mirror smooth inner for improved flow. • Braided with polyester fibre. • Extruded with brilliant white finish. • Will not support microbiological growth. • Temperature Range: -40°:C to +70°:C. WRAS Approved material - Approval No's 9912053 / 9912054. Standard Length: 30 metre. Construction : Lining : WRAS Approved Polyester Elastomer. Cover : Food Quality White PVC. WRAS = Water Regulations Advisory Service Regulations are not put in place just to enable a manufacturer to charge a higher price for a product. They are to safeguard end users. Main reason for the increases are due to the cost filtering through to the Propylene/PVC / Polymer derivatives market from Crude Oil prices. (Usually this is slower than the impact on Fuel prices) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf Posted August 28, 2010 Share Posted August 28, 2010 30 years in the water industry, Fred. To mistake 'fresh water' for 'drinking water' costs lives... :-| Anthony could you elaborate on your 30 years service in the water industry What was your job then Alf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted August 28, 2010 Share Posted August 28, 2010 I don't know about drinking water from it, but I would expect a " food grade hose " to be edible. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlowie Posted August 28, 2010 Share Posted August 28, 2010 LordThornber - 2010-08-28 8:54 AM Old Lowie, call me cavalier or any other adjective you choose, but we've been drinking out of 2 brand new motorhome water tanks for 10 years with no issues, and certainly no sore throats. As you said yourself in the chinese lanterns post, "weary willies, thou shalt not"... Martyn Sorry m'lud, I shouldn't have said 'NEVER,' I should have said 'I NEVER' drink from a tank. Each to his own. Still, it livened up yer thread, though :D :D :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
art338 Posted August 28, 2010 Share Posted August 28, 2010 I follow the details relating to the food and drink regulations, my argument is that I'll bet a few pounds that ordinary garden hose bought at the garden centre is of the same high standard. If it is not, then once its been flushed a few times its as good as any other hose, And, here's another thought, once water has been passed through the 'perfect pipe' any remaining moisture will attract countless bugs (microbiological growth) so a new pipe is needed, EVERY TIME, or the excercise is defeated. And who is going to steam clean their perfect hose after every use or take their internal M/H hoses and waterways apart. No one! art Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted August 28, 2010 Share Posted August 28, 2010 fred grant - 2010-08-28 7:40 PM so were does bottled water come from then me ansums??? says fred totally tung in cheek. Same like milk Fred - bottles! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlowie Posted August 28, 2010 Share Posted August 28, 2010 alf - 2010-08-28 9:04 PM 30 years in the water industry, Fred. To mistake 'fresh water' for 'drinking water' costs lives... :-| Anthony could you elaborate on your 30 years service in the water industry What was your job then Alf Supply Network Manager for half of Somerset, took a regular kicking from Supply Scientists for the state of my pipes. Network had to be perfect, budget was far from perfect! >:-( And yours? Journalist? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted August 29, 2010 Author Share Posted August 29, 2010 It's all good clean, (food grade :D ), fun this one isn't it??? Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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