Fiat Judder ( oops )

[colin]

JudgeMental - 2010-09-12 1:15 PM

 

So please what is differnce between a L3 - L4. And how do you know what you are buying? :-S

 

You know this ;-) 360mm

[colin]

Peter James - 2010-09-12 12:44 PM

I think the L4 is much better, not just for the extra length itself, but the fact that all the extra length is behind the back axle counterbalancing the weight on the front. I read that the current L3 professional conversion with 15" wheels is overloaded on the front axle with 4 people aboard.

 

The extra overhang is small compared to overall lenght, what is more likely to make the differance is change to the Heavy chassis as opposed to the Light chassis, although you lose a bit of payload you gain a lot on each axle load. This is why Adria use L3H for the twin with the 3l engine.

[Rayjsj]

It would be nice to hear from folk out there who have bought new X250's,

say, since the end of 2009, if they have reversed it up a slope (say 25% or 1 in 4 in old money) without any problems ? clutch burning or judder etc., ? the reason being that my storage parking spot is up a 1 in 4 slope, and because i can't turn around once 'Up there', it is quite important for a future purchase. Most folk when asked, just say 'how often do you have to reverse up a hill anyway' implying that this restriction is not important.

For ME it is. I have already decided not to get an X250 from between 2006-2008, but it would be nice to know that latest ones are OK in the 'Going Backwards uphill' department. ?? Ray

[euroserv]

Hello,

 

Just to clarify;

 

You can get the L4 body with the extra foot of overhang only on the Maxi chassis at 3.5 or 4.0T. This comes with 16" wheels. The L3 is available as a '33', '35' or Maxi. The 33 and 35 come with 15" wheels.

 

If you are ordering a L4 Maxi there is also an option for twin leaf rear springs which only reduce your load capacity by a few Kg but make the vehicle sit even better when fully loaded and improve the handling even further, so for the minor cost involved (about £80) we always go for this. The factory reversing camera option is also great value at £350 because it is a very neat installation and comes with a flip down monitor and a parcel tray above the windscreen that is really useful too. You can order the shelf ('cappucine') separately for about £35 if you wish. We always order both on our vans and I suspect the cameras have prevented a lot of rear end damage.

 

I think that if I was going to build my own camper I would order the extra high roof too; although you don't need the extra headroom, the potential to fit storage lockers high up would be appealing and this only adds about £800 to the list price. I would also order mine with glazed rear and sliding side doors because it is only about £100 as an option and is cheaper and far more professional looking than doing it afterwards. It's a shame that the fully glazed 'window van' is only available with the 2.3 engine otrherwise it would be perfect. Just block out what you don't need during the build. Sure it would look like a mini-bus but that is more elegant than a panel van any day.

 

Just a little food for thought.

 

Nick

[Mike88]

Rayjsj - 2010-09-13 11:15 AM

 

It would be nice to hear from folk out there who have bought new X250's,

say, since the end of 2009, if they have reversed it up a slope (say 25% or 1 in 4 in old money) without any problems ? clutch burning or judder etc., ? the reason being that my storage parking spot is up a 1 in 4 slope, and because i can't turn around once 'Up there', it is quite important for a future purchase. Most folk when asked, just say 'how often do you have to reverse up a hill anyway' implying that this restriction is not important.

For ME it is. I have already decided not to get an X250 from between 2006-2008, but it would be nice to know that latest ones are OK in the 'Going Backwards uphill' department. ?? Ray

 

I have to reverse my vehicle regularly as the driveway to my house is very steep. No judder but I have a Comfortmatic gearbox.

[bobalobs]

Interesting post as usual and it answers my queries as to the benefits of twin leaf suspension. However I see Murvi who build on the 5.99 metre van appear to offer twin leaf on this length vehicle at an option price of £102.50. So perhaps it is not now limited to the extra long van?

[bobalobs]

Interesting post as usual and it answers my queries as to the benefits of twin leaf suspension. However I see Murvi who build on the 5.99 metre van appear to offer twin leaf on this length vehicle at an option price of £102.50. So perhaps it is not now limited to the extra long van?

[Guest JudgeMental]

Mike88 - 2010-09-13 12:22 PM

I have to reverse my vehicle regularly as the driveway to my house is very steep. No judder but I have a Comfortmatic gearbox.

 

do you have the hill brake thingy Mike? do you have to order it as an extra, or is it standard on the 3 L auto please.

[Mike88]

JudgeMental - 2010-09-13 4:28 PM

 

Mike88 - 2010-09-13 12:22 PM

I have to reverse my vehicle regularly as the driveway to my house is very steep. No judder but I have a Comfortmatic gearbox.

 

do you have the hill brake thingy Mike? do you have to order it as an extra, or is it standard on the 3 L auto please.

 

I haven't got it but would have had it had the option been offered by Swift. Mine is a 2010 model so its not standard. I can manage without it though because my previously auto Transit was a similar arrangement.

 

You can either develop the skill of left foot braking or use the handbrake. But take the option if you can.

 

 

 

 

[Guest JudgeMental]

sorry Mike, it was standard before 2010? and now an option?

 

what is the proper name please?

[euroserv]

Guys,

 

Sorry to butt in....

 

The hill holder function is part of the ESP package that is a linked option with comfort matic. You can't get one without the other.

 

It only works if you are stopping on an incline and do not release the foot brake until you are moving your foot to the accelerator. It will hold the brakes on momentarily to stop you rolling back while moving your foot.

 

Also, you can get the twin leaf springs on any spec of Ducato but we only order it with the XL (L4) body. The L3 vans sit just fine on standard springs, and what I am probably doing is ensuring that if the big vans are over-loaded by a bit (heaven forbid) it will attract less attention. It makes the van very bouncy when empty but it's worth it.

 

Nick

[Mike88]

Nick. Thanks for jumping in. My converter did not offer this option and I wonder how many do. I've just looked through the Fiat Professional catalogue and cannot find ESP listed as an option.

 

If anybody buys a motorhome from dealer stock the chances of getting one with the ESP package are probably very remote.

 

Essential options in my view are the rear parking sensors, air conditioning (which is incrediby efficient on the Fiat) and to a much lesser extent cruise control. I would place all of these above the ESP but that is probably because I'm used to driving these things without it.

[Guest JudgeMental]

That makes sense..when at Dusseldorf the other week, and getting a quote from a sales rep, he said I would need ESP if going for 3 L auto, and added it on. I just took his word for it not having a clue...dont ask how much I cant find the paper work *-)

 

Mike, Nick said you cant get the 3 L auto without it, so you may well have it?

[Mike88]

JudgeMental - 2010-09-13 6:57 PM

 

That makes sense..when at Dusseldorf the other week, and getting a quote from a sales rep, he said I would need ESP if going for 3 L auto, and added it on. I just took his word for it not having a clue...dont ask how much I cant find the paper work *-)

 

Mike, Nick said you cant get the 3 L auto without it, so you may well have it?

 

 

The Hill Holder System is a part of ESP. It activates automatically so the Handbook says. The Handbook also says that system failure is indicated by a warning light. The fact that my vehicle rolls back on a slope and there is no warning light suggests to me that I haven't got it. My drive is on a steep slope so I've had plenty of opportunity to test it out.

 

My vehicle was delivered to Swift in January and converted in February and picked up by me in April. So, its a recent vehicle. But Nick's post has got me thinking.

 

PS. I've found ESP in the Fiat brochure; its listed under "Safety" and not under the Comfortmatic option where I would have expected to find it.

[jhorsf]

mike the esp/asr switch is on the far right hand side of the switches on the dash if yours does have it it illuminates for a second or two when you switch ign on

[euroserv]

Mike,

 

Have checked and can confirm that it is impossible that your comfort-matic was built without ESP being installed as well. The two options are linked and are 'functionally connected'.

 

If you have never noticed the hillholder function working you are either doing something that cancels it or it does not work properly. Check in the handbook for the correct operating procedure and failing that visit a fiat professional dealer.

 

Warning lights don't do what they used to; in the old days it meant that there was something wrong, and it made you aware that something might not work correctly and you should get it checked. Now it often means that one or more operating perameters are or have been not as intended and therefore the system is disabled to prevent damage to that system. This is a subtle but important difference. You may have an operating malfunction that is not considered harmful to the system and only Fiat's Examiner software will find out what it is. Ofetn the only way that you will know is by the mileage display flashing. This indicates a minor malfunction in the CAN-BUS system.

 

In summary; If you have comfort-matic you have ESP and therefore Hill Holder.

 

Nick

 

[Mike88]

jhorsf - 2010-09-14 2:35 AM

 

mike the esp/asr switch is on the far right hand side of the switches on the dash if yours does have it it illuminates for a second or two when you switch ign on

 

Thanks. The buttons on the right are "Mode" and 2 up and down arrows for the trip computer. There are 2 switches for the lights and a switch for switching off the anti lift function on the Swift alarm. That's it.

 

My Handbook says ESP is automatically activated. There is no mention of a switch.

[Mike88]

Thanks Nick. I posted the above before seeing your post. All I can say is that when I disengage the Handbook on a slope the vehicle rolls backwards. I shall get it checked out with Fiat but I'm off the Spain on Sunday for a couple of months so will deal with it on my return.

[euroserv]

Mike,

 

It does not work with the hand brake, in fact it is disabled if you use the hand brake. If you stop on an incline using only the foot brake and keep the brake on until you want to move, the hill holder keeps the brakes on for about 2 seconds while you move to the accelerator. (and if you are quicker than that it is cancelled as soon as you press the accelerator anyway).

 

The switch that is mentioned is to turn off the ASR which is traction control, and in almost all circumstances you should leave that well alone.

 

Nick

[Mike88]

Thanks Nick. I do in fact left foot brake as I am used to doing that on my old auto Transit. I mentioned handbrake because I thought that is how it worked and would be easier to understand for forum viewing.

 

I shall try it again tomorrow.

[Mel B]

euroserv - 2010-09-14 3:16 PM

 

Mike,

 

It does not work with the hand brake, in fact it is disabled if you use the hand brake. If you stop on an incline using only the foot brake and keep the brake on until you want to move, the hill holder keeps the brakes on for about 2 seconds while you move to the accelerator. (and if you are quicker than that it is cancelled as soon as you press the accelerator anyway).

 

The switch that is mentioned is to turn off the ASR which is traction control, and in almost all circumstances you should leave that well alone.

 

Nick

 

This is the same as on the new Transit too, and it works a treat as we found in the Pyrenees recently!!!

 

[Mike88]

euroserv - 2010-09-14 3:16 PM

 

Mike,

 

It does not work with the hand brake, in fact it is disabled if you use the hand brake. If you stop on an incline using only the foot brake and keep the brake on until you want to move, the hill holder keeps the brakes on for about 2 seconds while you move to the accelerator. (and if you are quicker than that it is cancelled as soon as you press the accelerator anyway).

 

The switch that is mentioned is to turn off the ASR which is traction control, and in almost all circumstances you should leave that well alone.

 

Nick

 

 

Nick.

 

I've tried the vehicle on a steep hill. As soon as I release the footbrake with the vehicle in gear it rolls backwards. So hill assist does not work assuming that is I have it as you say I should have. I'm sure you are right.

 

I have noticed that when the vehicle is running the multifunction display shows an amber triangle with a series of broken lines running from the base to the apex of the triangle. That has always been there so I have assumed it should be. This does not resemble any of the warning signs for ESP failure referred to in the handbook.

 

There is nothing else which remotely resembles a warning light.

 

As I am leaving for Spain on Sunday I shall have to get this sorted on my return unless anybody considers this to be an urgent issue to be remedied before I go.

[Guest JudgeMental]

Mike, why not just call a Fiat service centre and ask them over the phone......

[euroserv]

Mike,

 

That warning light will come on when you turn on the ignition, if it does not go off after a few seconds it indicates a fault with the ESP or Hill Holder function. You must get this checked out by a dealer ASAP. If it flashes while you are driving it is telling you that the system is operating to avoid wheel slip.

 

Nick

[Mike88]

Nick.

 

Thanks again. Further playing around reveals this light only comes on when the display shows anything other the day and date. It only appears when I press the trip button which I normally like to show the distance remaining in my fuel tank.

 

I'm pretty sure its not a warning light but I only mentioned it because I haven't a clue what it is meant to be and there is no mention of it in the manual. I think it signifies the road ahead and is to do with the trip computer.

 

But I do confirm that the hill holder never has worked. My dealer is unable to look at it before I leave for Spain. I asked to speak to someone but could not get beyond the girl on reception.

 

I have been all over France with the van operating without the hill assist so will have to get back to this issue on my return from Spain. I don't think there is a problem other than the fact hill assist is non existant.

 

I wonder if my experience is shared by other motorhomers with Comfortmatic boxes? I'll post something on the Swift website forum to see if they can tell me anything.