Detheleffs Globebus 2 - Good or bad?

[ken nugent]

Thinking of buying above 2007 2.3 JTD- 130 - FIAT - 6.2 mtrs. long, fixed bed and garage model with 15,000kms, one owner.

 

Does the above fall into the catagory of dodgy reverse gears?

 

Is there anything else I should look out for.

 

is Detheleffs a good manufacturer

 

Any comments good or bad would be helpful

 

Many thanks

 

Ken

[Guest JudgeMental]

ken nugent - 2010-09-09 7:09 PM

 

Does the above fall into the catagory of dodgy reverse gears?

 

 

Obviously it does...read the other Fiat posts. Unless they can prove fix has been done best leave it alone as out of warrenty as well *-)

[ken nugent]

Thanks for the reply JM but having read some of the threads in the past on this subject I got the impression that it was only the really large and heavy MH's that had this problem, or is it all of the 250's/6 speeds?

Over to you

 

Cheers

[AliB]

You need to confirm the modifications have been done to the gearbox.

If the current owner or dealer cannot confirm this then call Fiat Customer Service and give tham the chassis number. They will be able to confirm which garage did the mods.

If it has not bee modified then I would be very, very wary. If it has had the modifications then enjoy a superb vehicle.

[euroserv]

Don't forget that the highest profile case of all was Andy Stothert's panel van conversion, so it does not matter what size it is. Any 2.3 X250 is a potential problem if not already sorted.

 

Nick

[ken nugent]

Thanks for the input and sorry for the time to reply, been on holidays, I am reading so much conflicting information regarding gearbox problems on different forums, some say there is no modification or cure and others say make sure it has had the modification done, can anyone confirm what the modicification is? At this moment I am in the early stages of negotiations regarding purchasing the above 2007 2.3 JTD Ducato here in france, we have stressed our concern regarding the gearbox to the motorhome dealer who is aware of the problem and has said that they will take it to the local FIAT main dealer for a service and a check into the problem with the gearboxe to see if this one has been modified but as I dont know what the modification consists of, he could tell me anything but we have indicated that we want it in writing from FIAT that it is ok as this vehicle is out of warranty.

 

Thanks again

 

Ken N

[flicka]

Hi Ken

On the "Fiat Judder (oops)" thread, Andy Stothart posted that the majority of failures are on the 2.3/130 X/250's

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=20761&start=1

 

QUOTE-

2.2 litre 5 speed models

There have (thus far) been no component failures on the 2.2 5 speed models which can be laid directly at the door of the reverse gear ratio, BUT, from mid 2009 these were produced with a modfiied gearbox which incorporated a lower ratio.

 

2.2 litre 6 speed Peugeot, and 2.3 litre 6 speed Fiats

There has been only one gearbox failure on any of the 2000 plus vans modified by Fiat to include the lower ratio reverse gear, and from what the owner tells me I don't think the damage was caused by a failure in Fiat's engineering, as it doesn't quite fit the usual pattern. More likely driver abuse by the previous owner.

There don't seem to have been any clutch or gearbox failures on the latest production gearboxes made since mid 2009.

Any risk now seems to be restricted to buying a van made before the modified gearbox was put into production and which has not had the modifications done.

There is slight fly in the ointment here as a few 2.3 litre 6 speed Fiats have been produced carrying very heavy coachbuilt bodies on the 4 ton plus chassis, and the modifications, which seem adequate on the lighter 3.3 and 3.5 ton vehicles, are obviously less effective on the bigger ones. It would be probably best to avoid a 2.3 litre Fiat on a 4 ton (or above) chassis whether it has been modified or not.

 

3 litre 6 speed manual models

A Fiat employee who has been reliable throughout this debacle has stated that since mid 2009 the clutch lining spec has been changed to lessen or remove the tendency for the clutch to overheat too readily when reversed in extreme circumstances and slipping the clutch to control the speed of the vehicle. This does seem to backed up by a lack of 3 litre models which have incinerated their clutches recently.

 

I'm hoping that this will be my last post on this subject, as I hope (and believe) that Fiat have now done enough to prevent component failure as a result of the high reverse gear ratio, and even though the ratio is still too high in certain (rare) circumstances, the clutch and box now seem capable of dealing with this.

If anything significant arises then obviously I'll pass it on to everyone, but hopefully this will not be the case.

end QUOTE

& Euroserv posted:-

QUOTE

I can confirm what Andy said regarding upgraded clutches for the 3.0 engine. There are two part numbers listed and the change happened in November 2008. If you try to order the earlier one it will be superceded by the late one so it is an upgrade. The good news is that you can order a 'reconditioned' clutch kit for the 3.0 vans which you cannot get for any of the others; it will save you over £100 if you ever have to replace one outside warranty. It's part number 71793642 and I bet Moynes van that you will get a brand new one in the box! Don't get ripped off by Fiat dealers; always ask if there is a reconditioned item listed for whatever you need.

 

I can confirm also that there have still been no modifications to the gearboxes of 3.0 vans at all, and that the clutch used in the Manual and comfort-matics is exactly the same, so will be of the later design if produced after November 2008 whichever gearbox it has. Have to say that my comfort-matic was built in May 2008 so has the old type and has been trouble free.

 

The message is clear..... you cannot trust a van that has not been modified and was built before April 2009. Check any potential used purchase very thoroughly. You cannot trust Fiat either because it took a herculean effort to get them to do anything at all about this and they sure as hell will not be offering to help anyone with a problem van when the warranty has run out.

 

I also completely agreee that just about all manufacturers are just about the same when it comes to owning up to and correcting poor designs.

 

Nick

end QUOTE

 

So any 2007 2.3L 130bhp 6 speed is amongst the most susceptable model.

All the previous threads have indicated the Fiat fix.

If the Dealer takes it to an Authorised Fiat Dealer, they will have access to the details & should be able to provide documentary evidence to show what has /has not been carried out.

Also ensure you do the uphill reverse test before parting with your cash.

[Guest Tracker]

Don't know the model but Dethleffs is a well regarded converter.

 

If it has the favoured continental layout of fixed bed at the rear and half dinette at the front be aware that sleeping and storage will probably be good but lounging and daytime space could possibly be quite cramped and uncomfortable in what are usually very upright seats often with a fixed table?

 

The kitchen and washroom can also be compromised in the quest for a space hungry fixed bed.

 

That is not criticism - just observations and if that layout suits your needs then fine - otherwise be careful!

[ken nugent]

Thank you flicka for this speedy reply and for clarifying this nightmere of a problem, I am going to the dealer tomorrow to see what paperwork he has managed to obtain from FIAT, if there is no paperwork I will walk away from it but he did say that we are a hugh company in france and we have a lot of influence with FIAT so we will wait and see. If it has not been done and he gets FIAT to do it, as the vehicle has only covered 11,000 miles do you think it would be acceptable, but I suppose it depends on how it has been driven.

 

Thanks again

 

Ken N

[Brian Kirby]

Part will depend on your command of technical French.  Simply stated (as least as simply as I am capable! :-)) the X2/50 variants all suffer from too high a reverse gear to allow fully controlled reversing a low speeds, especially over uneven ground or uphill.  The consequence is the either the clutch must be slipped, which it doesn't like, resulting in a number of badly overheated clutches - some merely smoking and smelly, some terminal - or, if the clutch is fully engaged, the engine labours at revs too low for smooth operation and a vibration, resembling clutch judder, results.  Some, it seems, suffer from a combination of both symptoms.  Clutch damage and, in extreme circumstances, gearbox damage have resulted.  While the vehicle is under warranty this has generally been fixed by Fiat/PSA but indications are that, once out of warranty, you're on your own.  The bits are expensive!

The remedy that Fiat has adopted has varied over time, with revised engine mounts, and/or stabilisation bars, first being fitted, usually with limited success.  Some clutches seems to have been replaced with modified versions with a "harder" lining material.  There have also been reports of dual mass flywheels being replaced by conventional flywheels and clutch assemblies, but others report that this is incorrect.  So far as the clutch mods are concerned on an individual vehicle the only people who will definitively know what was done is the garage that carried out the work, and Fiat (/PSA) themselves.  To be sure, you will need confirmation.

The final version of the fix was for gearboxes on certain of the 2.3 litre models to have been rebuilt, with a lower reverse gear, and this seems to offer the most successful fix, seemingly reducing the problem to negligible, or at least manageable.  Fiat seem, so far, to have refused to accept that the problem extends to the 3.0 litre models and it seems generally to have been accepted that the problem does not arise at all with 3.0 litre automatics.

There has been no general recall (at least in UK), all problems being dealt with on a vehicle by vehicle basis, so that it is impossible to state definitively whether this or that variant will have received this or that modification.  So, on an individual vehicle basis, in the absence of formal confirmation from Fiat (or PSA), all that can be determined is whether the vehicle now judders.  In any case, because of the apparently variable results obtained, whatever the mods that are claimed to have been applied, their ultimate success, or otherwise, can only be tested by driving.

Since mid 2009, it seems X2/50 base vehicles have all been manufactured with modified gearboxes from scratch, but determining if this or that motorhome is on the modified chassis from dates alone is not straightforward, as much stock sits in converters' compounds awaiting conversion.

How this particular vehicle was driven will have negligible impact on whether or not it judders, or juddered.  It seems there is a potential for any X2/50 base motorhome, with a chassis manufactured before mid 2009, to exhibit the "judder" if provoked in the right way.  Some owners have never experienced the problem at all, others seem to experience it every time they reverse.

The only way to tell with an individual vehicle is to try reversing it up a hill.  If it judders, it definitely judders.  If it doesn't, it is not conclusive that it won't, because different combinations of hill and load will present different challenges to the drive train.  If none of the mods have been carried out, and the vehicle reverses smoothly, it is one of the "lucky" ones.  If all the mods have been carried out, and it still judders, it will be in an unfortunate minority, but it will still be a judderer. 

So, as you can see, on an individal vehicle, it is a lottery, and caveat emptor was never more appropriate! 

I believe this is a fair summary, and represents the situation as I presently understand it, but either Andy or Nick (euroserv) will soon correct anything inaccurate.  :-)  Good luck with your purchase.

[ken nugent]

Thank you Brian

 

for clarifying this situation, we are awaiting confirmation from FIAT on the vehicle in question and will definately be road testing either way. So thank you again to all who commented, much appreciated.

 

Ken N

[terryW]

I can't comment on the Globebus but as for Dethleffs after sales support we needed a new roof light cover after our local ford dealer decapitated it during a service.

 

Their support was great with emailed drawings and info to confirm the correct part and prompt delivery to the UK. This was also made possible by the Dethleff Owners Club of Great Britain. If you do buy then i would certainly recommend joining the club, they have a great relationship with the manufacture and have regular visits to the factory for club members. See link below.

 

http://www.dethleffsowners.co.uk/

[colin]

Following on from richards post, as most of us who use a van with fixed beds know the lounging area is usualy huge, i.e. you use the beds for daytime lounging, but I believe this model has a very high bed which even I couldn't sit up in, better check that out.

[thebishbus]

Hi. When in a weak brain moment I considered buying a NEW NEW M/H and was interested in the Globebus.What put me off was the cramped living area, the high rear bed with low headroom, the flimsy bathroom and door, and the low ground clearance at the front, could be a problem on some camp sites I think, plus I do my own servicing and could not see this clearing my ramps, this may not affect you though. Brian B.

[Guest JudgeMental]

and why it is important to check out campers you like the "sound" of before getting carried away......We looked at loads with high cramped rear beds before going for the Euramobil, because it was light and spacious. (its up for sale now,15000 miles and a Ford so no reverse worries:-D)

 

Dusseldorf show best for this IMO as every European camper there on display....