PJay Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 Does fitting an "A" frame to a vehicle affect the insurance of the car? Considering going down this route. Also how about ferry crossing? Do they charge two fares? Has anyone had to take a towed car off the MH and drive it seperately, for any reason?Seems a better idea than using a trailer, as we would have storage problems with a trailer Would be interested in others experience. Any recommendation as to what car to tow? PJay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosbotham Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 You'll get plenty of opinions on this... In any case : Insurance - yes, it does affect the insurance of the car. Some/most motorhome policies will cover the car 3rd party, but getting fully comp can be more of an issue. You'll need a specialist broker...can recommend Peart who have a bespoke policy, others praise NFU. I have it in the back of my mind that Comfort do a policy as well. Ferry - you book as motorhome + trailer. My experience is it's cheaper like that, though others have found it can be cheaper to separate and do two bookings. Overseas usage - I've driven through France, Belgium, Luxembourg, Germany and Switzerland trouble free (remember you'll need 2 vignettes in Switzerland). Spain is an issue..there's a crackdown there at present. I believe Mont Blanc tunnel will insist you separate. Lesson appears to be give it a go, but be ready (have sufficient drivers) to separate if the nice European policeman instructs you to do so. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJay Posted September 9, 2010 Author Share Posted September 9, 2010 Thanks Paul really only interested in Spain, France And Portugal. Whats the problem in Spain? And what car do you tow? I need to change my car, so thinking to get a little one to tow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w1ntersun Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 Rosbotham - 2010-09-09 9:32 PM Insurance - yes, it does affect the insurance of the car. Some/most motorhome policies will cover the car 3rd party, but getting fully comp can be more of an issue. You'll need a specialist broker...can recommend Peart who have a bespoke policy, others praise NFU. I have it in the back of my mind that Comfort do a policy as well. No it does not affect the insurance on the car. I have had it confirmed by AVIVA who underight Comfort and SAGA who I am now with that as the modification does not improve the performance of the car there is no premium penalty. All you need to do is inform them a frame is fitted to the car and how far in front of the car the frame protrudes IE 10cm. Comfort wanted to charge me £300 Saga charged me £125 for a toyata yaris Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosbotham Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 Richard if you read my earlier post you'll see that I mentioned Comfort's policy covers the vehicle. I did some research (look on the "other" forum) and found that most insurers run for the hills when they find out what you're doing. Funnily enough try getting fully comp insurance for when a car's on a trailer and you'll find it's even worse.... Most mainstream car insurers will only cover the vehicle 3rd party when being towed. I had to cancel my policy with Admiral because of that...the restricted cover was fine on my old car, but not on a brand new one that I currently tow. Believe me, I had to pay £300 extra to go for a standalone policy versus the toad being on my multicar policy, and I wouldn't have done that without researching the issue properly. Pjay, I used to tow a Smart, now tow a Fiat 500C. Have also towed the Fiat on a trailer and the a-frame approach is preferable on many levels. In terms of Spain, understand the issue is that they've got a bee in their bonnet about cars on a-frames being treated as being recovered, and illegal otherwise. Multiple reports on forums of people being stopped and told to disconnect/fined. The logic that something is legal in the UK therefore legal for temporary use in all of EU is flawed : there's been communication from the EU Transport Commissioner posted that there's no such EU legislation, however the 1968 (?) Vienna convention provides that safeguard. Unfortunately, neither the UK or Spain have signed it... Can't comment on Portugal. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogP Posted September 10, 2010 Share Posted September 10, 2010 With regards insurance I think you need to check with the intended cover suppliers for both car and motorhome. I've contacted both mine and neither of the insurers have stated its an issue nor imposed additional premium or cover restrictions. From the car perspective the modifications do not change its performance so as already said no reason for increase premium , when the car is attached to the MH it becomes a trailer so would , whilst connected , be part of that outfits insurance , provided your cover already has this as part of the Ts&Cs , I know my cover automatically covers anything I'm towing as part of the general policy. As far as I can make out the issue is if the 'trailer' becomes detached from the towing vehicle and then caused an accident or damage but this I think is that same for any trailer or caravan or TOAD , hence why I always had separate cover when I had a caravan. As for the A Frame - check out the Chris Cox offering as there is virutally no visual evidence of A Frame connectivity other than the brake cable connection (which protudes about 3-4cms and the 2 'knuckle' bolt connections which both have a protective rubber cap when not in use , but both sit near flush to the bumper grill in which they protude out from. I don't have any photo's at present but can try and get some over the weekend if needed to show what I mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJay Posted September 10, 2010 Author Share Posted September 10, 2010 Thanks Guys for your replies As I am thinking of changing my beloved Toyota (17 years old) but only 37,000 miles on clock.( I have had it from new) What I would like to know is what small car would be best to get? As you can see , don't do that many miles, as it is a second car, so may look for a newer second hand one. ( don't think I like the Smart car) Pauline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean Ray Posted September 10, 2010 Share Posted September 10, 2010 I agree with RogP. We tow a Renault Clio on a Tow-a-car "A" frame. We are insured with Safeguard and it doesn't increase the insurance by towing. We do not unhitch when going on ferry. We book as a motorhome and trailer. The ferry want to know the length of the full unit (motorhome & trailer). We travel to Spain regular for the winter and never had a problem. DO NOT place an "On tow" sign in the back of the car window as this changes the car from being a trailer to a car (being towed) which is illegal in Spain on an "A" frame. Also, if your total unit length is over 11 metres, you do need a revelent marker board fitted on the back of the unit. Hitching or unhitching is a 2 minute job and the "A" frame fits in the boot of the car. Happy motorhoming Jean & Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogP Posted September 10, 2010 Share Posted September 10, 2010 PJay - 2010-09-10 9:59 AM ..What I would like to know is what small car would be best to get? ..Pauline Hi Pjay we have a 2008 Toyota Yaris 1.3SR. whilst it may be slightly bigger than most people tow we needed a car capable of seating 2 adults , 1 child and space for 2 large dogs (sadly now 1) and this came in at under 1000kgs (950kgs I think) where similar other sized cars were 1100kg+ and therefore closing in on our towing limit of 1250kg. With the car having an electronic dash/milometer we've found that the miles done under A Frame towing do NOT rack up which I know is a concearn on other cars. As for towing, its no problems at all , the only thing I noticed was when the MH engine is still warming up and you first pull away it seems to take a little extra oomph but this does lessen as the engine gets upto running temperature. Providing you also pre-empt inclines and change gear at the right time you can keep good progress on hills - just back from touring Devon and Cornwall and never had any concearn on some of the A30 hills down there. As others said its a couple of minutes to put the A Frame on the car and then hitch it up - providing your co-driver understands your directions!!!!! - Hope the wife isn't reading this!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Posted September 10, 2010 Share Posted September 10, 2010 I have towed a Renault Clio and Suzuki Ignis on both A-frames in UK and Ireland and on a trailer to Spain / Portugal. Just not prepared to try to argue the legality or otherwise in foreign tongues. I do not have a "spare" driver so splitting would not be an option. Not had any problems with either car in either mode. Most folks will say you don't notice its there but you will find a difference in acceleration and braking. HTH Stuart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosbotham Posted September 10, 2010 Share Posted September 10, 2010 RogP - 2010-09-10 9:41 AM As for the A Frame - check out the Chris Cox offering as there is virutally no visual evidence of A Frame connectivity other than the brake cable connection (which protudes about 3-4cms and the 2 'knuckle' bolt connections which both have a protective rubber cap when not in use , but both sit near flush to the bumper grill in which they protude out from. Yes, another vote for Chris Cox. Good bloke, knows what he's going. There's few small cars that would present a difficulty in towing...find the car you like and check with e.g. Chris C if he's converted any like that rather than making a choice based on what other posters like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebesky Posted September 11, 2010 Share Posted September 11, 2010 Has anybody towed with a Fiat Punto? I've seen one for sale, complete with 'A' frame. Need to check out total weight of course. We are planning to change our MH so can't do that until we've made the final decision on the new 'van. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Lee Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 We tow a Honda Jazz, a real tardis of a car. Downsizing from two large cars at the time, we looked at every small car listed in What Car at one metric tonne and under and chose the Jazz because it is not small car. Have a look at the way the seats fold down to give you a huge carrying space. Tows a treat too, does not put mileage on the electronic mileometer when towing but we do keep a record of mileage covered on tow and remind the dealer each time it goes in for service to check "running gear" more thoroughly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJay Posted September 13, 2010 Author Share Posted September 13, 2010 Thanks for replies so far. Any one have a www for Chris Cox, or any other site that may have secondhand cars with a frames? Another question, How do you find the weight you can tow ? (did not realise this would be much of an issue , with a "small car") We have a 2006 Ducato 2.3 Don't need a brand new car at my age, so any suitable car would be OK How about Kia's ? or Ford Kar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogP Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 Hi Pjay here's the website for Chris Cox http://www.towingframes.com/index.htm with regards the towing limit you'll need to check the plates on the MH and or your V5 to confirm. Mine I think are sited near the habitation door just next to the step but other places are driver / passenger door wells or the engine bay. They should be visible and are some small metal plates about 2 inch long much like the VIN plate , they can be placed next to the VIN plate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJay Posted September 13, 2010 Author Share Posted September 13, 2010 Thanks Rog Just checked the V5 not mentioned . It's blank where it says permisable towing weight. So will have to check the van, which is not kept at house. Pauline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 Just been looking for an insurance quote on-line from COMFORT. Could not find any details regarding towing with an "A" Frame, maybe have to ring them ? BUT noticed that their cover for a Trailer is limited to £3000, so if the toad is classed as a trailer thats the max. available in the event of a claim on M/H insurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 Phoebesky - 2010-09-11 7:57 AM Has anybody towed with a Fiat Punto? I've seen one for sale, complete with 'A' frame. Need to check out total weight of course. We are planning to change our MH so can't do that until we've made the final decision on the new 'van. Thanks PeterH who started this thread has towed Fiat Puntos so it might be worth you dropping him a PM. http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=20949&posts=12#M225708 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleo Posted September 15, 2010 Share Posted September 15, 2010 When we had the A-frame fitted we were given a notice to display in the back window with TOW CAR written on it. Should we dispense with this notice when travelling abroad as I presume it means the same as ON TOW? (>) *-) We tow a Toyota Aygo and found no problems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John J Thompson Posted September 15, 2010 Share Posted September 15, 2010 w1ntersun - 2010-09-09 9:52 PM Rosbotham - 2010-09-09 9:32 PM Insurance - yes, it does affect the insurance of the car. Some/most motorhome policies will cover the car 3rd party, but getting fully comp can be more of an issue. You'll need a specialist broker...can recommend Peart who have a bespoke policy, others praise NFU. I have it in the back of my mind that Comfort do a policy as well. No it does not affect the insurance on the car. I have had it confirmed by AVIVA who underight Comfort and SAGA who I am now with that as the modification does not improve the performance of the car there is no premium penalty. All you need to do is inform them a frame is fitted to the car and how far in front of the car the frame protrudes IE 10cm. Comfort wanted to charge me £300 Saga charged me £125 for a toyata yaris Richard Comfort have charged me a much larger premium because we are full timing and tow the car on a trailer behind the motorhome. Aviva online quote £204 Comfort (fulltiming) £729.93 for the same car covered by Aviva John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleo Posted September 15, 2010 Share Posted September 15, 2010 Just like to add that we have this fitted to the rear of the car when towing. It has its own light source for the number plate. Sorry but photo would not attach. Will try later. sorry............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogP Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 cleo - 2010-09-15 7:33 PM Just like to add that we have this fitted to the rear of the car when towing. It has its own light source for the number plate. Sorry but photo would not attach. Will try later. sorry............ Hi Cleo our set-up is that the lights / brakes lights / indicators are all powered and worked from the Motorhomes. We fit a removable MH Reg plate over the TOADs and have two samllish red warning triangles , that are magnetic , and are placed on the boot lid either side of the number plate. All the plates and signage came as part of the purchase cost of the A Frame. I'll try and get a photo if I can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleo Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 Will try again with photo. Thanks for your reply. :D :-) Sorry server playing up again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted September 19, 2010 Share Posted September 19, 2010 Phoebesky - 2010-09-11 7:57 AM Has anybody towed with a Fiat Punto? I've seen one for sale, complete with 'A' frame. Need to check out total weight of course. We are planning to change our MH so can't do that until we've made the final decision on the new 'van. Thanks Hi I have towed 2 Punto`s ( 1995 and 1998 vintage) All over UK and through France, Spain. without Problem. (Except for Spanish "plod" pulling me 3 times for "A" framing). Total weight OTR is around a tonne on tow. BUT the allowed mass is the car MGW. pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJay Posted September 19, 2010 Author Share Posted September 19, 2010 PeteH - 2010-09-19 6:32 AM Phoebesky - 2010-09-11 7:57 AM Has anybody towed with a Fiat Punto? I've seen one for sale, complete with 'A' frame. Need to check out total weight of course. We are planning to change our MH so can't do that until we've made the final decision on the new 'van. Thanks Hi I have towed 2 Punto`s ( 1995 and 1998 vintage) All over UK and through France, Spain. without Problem. (Except for Spanish "plod" pulling me 3 times for "A" framing). Total weight OTR is around a tonne on tow. BUT the allowed mass is the car MGW. pete Peter Like to hear more about "Spainish Plod" pulling you over. Have been told that it is illegal to tow in Spain and France (OK in Portugal) As we mainly go to Spain/France there would be no point in invokeing hassle from the police. Would be interested in your experiences, as this would influence our decision , on wether to go to a caravn or not, in the forseeable future PJay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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