Aggressive Atheist

[Guest pelmetman]

The reason us Atheist are aggresive is they have cancelled "Bargin Hunt" because some bloke in a funny hat wants to visit the UK and charge us millions for the privilege >:-(

[Tony Jones]

It won't surprise you that I'm not by any means an atheist, but I do agree about this visit. The idea of calling it a "State Visit" (hence taxpayer-funded) is based on the total fiction that the Vatican is a COUNTRY, when of course it's really only one bit of a city.

 

Its only "citizens" are employees of the church, and everything that matters about this visit is to do with the Roman Catholic faith, not the supposed "country" of which he's the "head of state."

 

It's as if General Motors called their little bit of Detroit an "independent state," when in fact it's just the Head Office of a multinational organisation!

 

And how much attention would a REAL State Visit from the president of (say) Luxembourg attract - which has a much bigger population and a proper governmental structure!

 

The Pope's only significance is as a religious figure, and this visit (like that of his predecessor) should be described that way, not as a "State" one.

[Guest JudgeMental]

I was somewhat aghast when young Boycie Mental announced over breakfast he was going on a demonstration against his holiness.......He is now locked in the cellar until the Pope leaves *-)

 

so its OK to except a visit from evey right wing murdering facist leader under the sun...but a visit from the Pope is questionable?

[flicka]

(^) Will the Vatican fund my trip to Italy, with my extended family :-D

 

Of course NOT, so why should the UK public be expected to fund the Pope & his entourage's trip to the UK.

 

If the Pope is not happy to tour the UK without extended security, he should either provide it HIMSELF or STAY AT HOME in the Vatican.

 

As for that cretin who likened the UK is like a third world country, why does he even bother coming.

 

The record of the Catholic Church is appalling & in it's present state should be denounced by the C.of E., not embraced by the Archbishop.

 

[flicka]

Tony Jones - 2010-09-16 1:00 PM

 

It won't surprise you that I'm not by any means an atheist, but I do agree about this visit. The idea of calling it a "State Visit" (hence taxpayer-funded) is based on the total fiction that the Vatican is a COUNTRY, when of course it's really only one bit of a city.

 

Its only "citizens" are employees of the church, and everything that matters about this visit is to do with the Roman Catholic faith, not the supposed "country" of which he's the "head of state."

 

It's as if General Motors called their little bit of Detroit an "independent state," when in fact it's just the Head Office of a multinational organisation!

 

And how much attention would a REAL State Visit from the president of (say) Luxembourg attract - which has a much bigger population and a proper governmental structure!

 

The Pope's only significance is as a religious figure, and this visit (like that of his predecessor) should be described that way, not as a "State" one.

 

Fully agree Tony, It's like expecting Boris Johnson claiming the "City" is a seperate state to the UK (lol) :-(

[Guest JudgeMental]

well there are more catholics in the UK then Anglicans and I am sure most are tax payers, and a percentage of them will welcome the visit.......

 

First this week it was Gorgeous George now the Pope...... Who next I wonder:-S

[Guest pelmetman]

Now he's called us Ahtheist Nazi's >:-(

 

I might be wrong but I seem to recall from my grade 3 CSE in history that the Catholic church had a hand in helping the Nazi's round up Jews for the concentration camps (?) And what about the Spanish Inquisition, another fine example of how to win friends and influence people *-)

 

Might I suggest to Pope Benny that "he who is without sin should cast the first criticism" :D

[Guest Tracker]

JudgeMental - 2010-09-16 2:53 PM

 

well there are more catholics in the UK then Anglicans and I am sure most are tax payers, and a percentage of them will welcome the visit.......

 

S

 

Maybe but there are more people who do not subscribe to any religion so why should they subsidise his Holiness?

 

Perhaps the millions of catholics could have had a whip round to pay for it all?

 

As it happens I would have no objection to my taxes paying for it if helps with religious tolerance but I do have the suspicion that it has more to do with political correctness and point scoring than creating a better world?

 

Perhaps the money saved by the Vatican will be used to help those who have been abused - what do you think!

[Tony Jones]

JudgeMental - 2010-09-16 2:53 PM

 

well there are more catholics in the UK then Anglicans

 

Be interested to see "chapter and verse" (!) on that Eddie.

All too often, "Catholics" are counted as all those who describe themselves as such, while "Anglicans" are counted by regular church attendance.

Both denominations have huge numbers of non-practising people, so it's important that the same basis is used to count each.

 

But it's not really relevant to my point, which is that each religious group should pay its own expenses without subsidy from taxpayers who don't share their faith - which is why I'm against so-called "faith schools" too!

 

I'll log off now before things start flying about :-D

[Guest JudgeMental]

Odd...I dont remember a similar sense of outrage when the Dalai Lama visited in 2008 *-)

[Guest Tracker]

I have little interest and know little of religious matters so I am not perhaps the right one to say - but perhaps because nobody knows what Buddhist's get up to and as there is no media publicity about abuse by Buddhist monks in the UK plus the Dalai Lama and Tibet are seen more as victims of China than villains why would we want to resent his visit?

[Bulletguy]

pelmetman - 2010-09-16 3:09 PM

 

I might be wrong but I seem to recall from my grade 3 CSE in history that the Catholic church had a hand in helping the Nazi's round up Jews for the concentration camps.....

Not entirely wrong no though it's a fairly complex situation beginning from the euthanasia clinic 'experiments' which preceeded the Concentration Camps, but was the foundation. Though there were hundereds of Concentration Camps, what many don't realise is there were actually only five extermination camps. Sobibor, Treblinka, Belzec, Chelmno and Birkenau (Auschwitz 2). Whilst the Concentration camps existed to provide forced labour and many of course died within them, the five extermination camps were there for mass murder with people being crammed into cattle trucks transported by trains, then taken directly to the gas chambers and murdered.

 

Unlike the Concentration camps, the extermination camps were razed to the ground when their "work" was done in an attempt to erase evidence and apart from Birkenau there is very little left to see today.

 

Unforgiveable is the help which the Vatican gave to high ranking SS criminals, providing them with funds, new identities and a Red Cross passport to escape justice and begin a new life. Many escaped to South America.

 

There is indisputable proof of this since documented evidence has been discovered, yet the Vatican and the Pope have always refused to acknowledge complicity.

 

Gitta Sereny in her book "Into That Darkness.....from mercy killing to mass murder" was the last person to interview Franz Stangl, the Camp Commandant of Sobibor and Treblinka whom the Vatican was instrumental in helping his esacpe. The book is very comprehensive and Sereny devotes an entire chapter on the complicity of the Vatican, quoting from previously unobtainable manuscripts and documents.

[Bazza454]

Absolutely no interest whatsoever in this visit or indeed who is footing the bill.

What I would like to see is the Catholic Church admitting that there is a major problem with pedophile preists amongst them and then devoting the time, energy, resource, honesty and attention necessary to ensure that parents across the world can send their children to church without any fear that they will be in any danger or harm.

Perhaps too much to wish for at the moment.....   

[flicka]

As costs are a reported £3m+ per day for this "state" visit, it should be everyone's concern, when so many are livng with the fear of loosing their jobs due to the current economic situation.

it's lunacy & a travisty that it is categorised as a State visit paid for by the whole of the British population. Who, I suspect the large majority have no interest & don't want to know.

It is a visit by a head of the Roman Catholic church and as such should be wholly funded by that organisation. The wealthiest organisation in the WORLD, so not that they can't afford it. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Would the head of another similar religious group be afforded the same - NO.

 

[Guest JudgeMental]

And how much are we paying to protect that wretched murdering ba$tard Tony Blair I wonder....

[Guest pelmetman]

JudgeMental - 2010-09-16 10:36 PM

 

And how much are we paying to protect that wretched murdering ba$tard Tony Blair I wonder....

 

But is he not a fine upstanding catholic >:-) ....................................I rest my case m'lord (lol) (lol) (lol)

[PJay]

pelmetman - 2010-09-17 7:54 AM

 

JudgeMental - 2010-09-16 10:36 PM

 

And how much are we paying to protect that wretched murdering ba$tard Tony Blair I wonder....

 

But is he not a fine upstanding catholic >:-) ....................................I rest my case m'lord (lol) (lol) (lol)

BUT HE HAS CONVERTED TO ONE.!!!!!

[Guest pelmetman]

I see 5 people have been arrested for plotting to kill the Pope, I wonder if they will turn out to be dangerous "aggressive Atheists" or your bog standard "religious fanatic".............................................I know who my money is on :D (lol) (lol)

[Guest JudgeMental]

PJay - 2010-09-17 8:30 AM

 

pelmetman - 2010-09-17 7:54 AM

 

JudgeMental - 2010-09-16 10:36 PM

 

And how much are we paying to protect that wretched murdering ba$tard Tony Blair I wonder....

 

But is he not a fine upstanding catholic >:-) ....................................I rest my case m'lord QUOTE]

 

BUT HE HAS CONVERTED TO ONE.!!!!!

 

Well...... maybe if he had converted earlier he could have grown a conscience? probably not in time for the 1000's of innocent people of Iraq...

 

God is an Ironic so and so, he only gives a conscience to decent, honest people? exactly those who dont need one.......*-)

 

 

 

 

[CliveH]

I think all Man made religions are a scam - Whatever my God is he/she does not require a white frocked old man posing as his/her voice on earth.

 

The Catholic Church should hang its head in shame over the revelations of late.

 

Only thing i would say is that i agree with the pope on one thing and that is the numpty politically correct trying to re-lable Christmas as some sort of "Winter festival" because other religions might be offended.

 

That has got to stop.

 

Freedom is my religion - from what i see of most man made religions today - Freedom just is not on their agenda. :-S

[Bulletguy]

JudgeMental - 2010-09-18 10:13 AM

 

Well...... maybe if he had converted earlier he could have grown a conscience?

I don't think converting to any particular religion brings about a sudden change of 'conscience'. If repentance was what you were thinking of i'm sure that could have been achieved without the Roman Catholic faith.

[duffers]

CliveH - 2010-09-18 11:21 AM

 

I think all Man made religions are a scam - Whatever my God is he/she does not require a white frocked old man posing as his/her voice on earth.

 

The Catholic Church should hang its head in shame over the revelations of late.

 

Only thing i would say is that i agree with the pope on one thing and that is the numpty politically correct trying to re-lable Christmas as some sort of "Winter festival" because other religions might be offended.

 

That has got to stop.

 

Freedom is my religion - from what i see of most man made religions today - Freedom just is not on their agenda. :-S

 

 

but it was a winter piss up err festival - designed to fend off the cold chills of dreich winter nights - until the christian church nicked it

surely easter would be more appropriate for the religious festival of christmas

mind you - they grafted their bits onto the pagan spring festival as well

 

oh well

 

[Brock]

I don't think we need to worry to much about the money. It will simply go into the economy, swim around a bit and then come back in taxes. Money is only lost when it goes abroad on imports such as my German van.

 

The Catholic church has a lot to answer for and from what I have heard, is as clever as a politician in avoiding the unpleasant truths. From the days it slaughtered non-believers through the days it supported the slaughter of others to the current days when its priests have literally b. the lives of many, it has proved to be like many other churches in the world, corrupt and so far removed from the teaching of christianity. The church is as corrupt as any other global business with minimal ethics.

 

Fortunately, there are many people who live a decent life outside the church.

 

[maryowlgirl]

just wish they would find money like this for people who really need help - cancer patients etc rather than visits from "high ranking folk".

 

I also object to my favourite programmes taken off TV not only for "state visits" but sport etc, take football off instead.

 

OMG possibly upset most on here now but am I bovvered NO!!

[nowtelse2do]

I don't know how long it will take, but the sooner religion is fazed out of or lives the better. It causes nothing but resentment and bitterness amongst us and always has done. 

Dave