Mercedes & Ford chassis

[Derek Uzzell]

There are some photos in French motorhome magazines of the latest Mercedes-based tag-axle Al-Ko chassis (currently available only to the Pilote group) and of the Ford wide rear-track FWD 3500kg chassis-cab.

 

I can scan these photos, but I can't add them to this posting - presumably because they are either too large or the file format I'm using is unacceptable. Any suggestions?

[Dave Newell]

Reduce them to 600X400 ish and make sure they're JPEG, they should then post OK but consider copyright issues if they're scanned from other publications, Warners may not like it.

 

D.

[Derek Uzzell]

Thanks Dave, but whatever I try the photos won't transfer. I'm still coming to terms with my new iMac and Canon printer/scanner/copier, so the problem is undoubtedly of my own making.

 

As photos of the new Ford and Mercedes chassis may well be printed in Warners publications soon, I'm not going to spend more time on trying to post them to the forum, particularly (as you rightly point out) there are copyright considerations.

 

I can't find anything on the internet about the Mercedes tag-axle chassis (though, admittedly, I haven't looked too hard), but here's something about the latest Ford FWD motorhome chassis-cab.

 

http://www.newspress.co.uk/public/ViewPressRelease.aspx?pr=24235

[Mel B]

Thanks Derek - the article says that the new 'motorhome' chassis: "can also be ordered with an extra-wide rear axle with an impressive track of 1.98m".

 

Does anyone know what's the rear wheel track is for the existing chassis as a comparison?

[Derek Uzzell]

Mel B - 2010-09-21 6:17 PM

 

Does anyone know what's the rear wheel track is for the existing chassis as a comparison?

 

The Transit platform-cab chassis is based on a cut down panel-van. My Ford Transit Mk 6 panel-van brochures don't provide track-related data, but quote the panel-van body-width as 1.762m. The body-width is a bit wider than the track, so I'd guess at a rear track of around 1.7m. Although Mk 7 Transits (like yours) have rear disk brakes rather than the Mk 6's drum, I think the track wasn't altered. So it's quite a big increase.

[Den]

Pilote & LeVoyageur have 12 months excluvitity for the Merc' Tag Axle

[Derek Uzzell]

Mel,

 

I’ve dug out my Hobby’s Certificate of Conformity and this states that both its front and rear tracks are 1718mm (so my guess of 1.7m wasn’t far out).

 

The French magazine pictures of the latest Ford chassis show a ladder-frame with a particularly narrow central ‘spine’ with two extensions each side to carry the attachments for the rear leaf springs. Cabling for tow-bar electrics is pre-installed, though I think that’s been standard on Transits for quite a while, as my 2005 Hobby has it. The photo in “Le Monde du Camping-Car” (LMdCC) shows a spare wheel mounted, but this is omitted from the pictures in “Camping-Car” magazine. The chassis in the latter photos appears to differ from the one shown in LMdCC regarding the rear cross-member’s underside profile, so it’s hard to know whether production versions of this chassis are designed to carry a spare wheel.

 

LMdCC quotes the wide rear track as 1.89m (which is probably wrong!) and seems to be suggesting that the chassis will be limited to 3500kg. Nevertheless, there are already some pretty substantial motorhomes (eg. 7.25m overcab models) being built on the 3.95m wheelbase version of this chassis. If, as seems likely, there will be no ‘maxi’ option (unlike the X250 Fiat), then payload is bound to be tight on new big ‘family’ FWD Ford-based motorhomes.

 

[Derek Uzzell]

A follow-up...

 

While in France recently, I had the opportunity to see 2010 and 2011 versions of Challenger Ford Transit-based FWD coachbuilt motorhomes side-by-side. What was visually very evident was how much wider the rear track was on the ladder-chassis 2011 models, and how much 'righter' they looked, with their rear wheels filling the wheel-arches rather than being deeply inset.

 

2011 FWD Ford-based Challengers (and their Chausson clones) have 3.30m, 3.75m or 3.95m wheelbases (depending on the model), but all have a MAM of 3500kg. Only a single Ford-based twinned rear-wheel RWD overcab model has an (optional) MAM of 3850kg, though this can also be had with the 200bhp 3.2litre 5-cylinder motor should you feel so inclined.

 

I looked beneath one of the 2011 FWD Challengers and noticed that the controversial rear-suspension 'spring assisters' that apparently have caused dismay to certain technically-challenged UK MOT-testers were no longer being fitted. See:

 

HTTP://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=19542&start=1

 

There are now conventional bump-stops with a wide air-gap between the bottom of the bump-stop and the top of the rear axle.

 

No spare wheel was in evidence, and there is no indication in the Challenger brochure that one can be specified as an option.

 

All 2011 Challenger/Chausson motorhomes have a Webasto diesel-fuelled heating system that can be used while the vehicle is being driven. This comprises either a Dual-Top combination air/water heater, or an Air-Top air-only heater with a Truma gas-fuelled Ultrastore boiler for water-heating.

 

The gas locker is sized to accept just a single 13kg French cylinder, except for the panel-van models that are said to be able to accommodate 2 x 7kg bottles. (Odd this, as I've never heard of a 7kg French gas bottle!) The 'single bottle' locker probably doesn't matter much to a French buyer, but may be significant to a UK potential Chausson purchaser (Challengers currently aren't officially marketed in the UK), as Calor 13kg/15kg bottles are slightly larger than French ones. Obviously there are ways that this limitation can be circumvented - I just mention it as a throw-away observation.

[Guest JudgeMental]

Any chance that the new Ford panel van will be as wide as a Fiat? :-S

[Clive]

The photo,s of the Merc / AlKo chassis in MMM were mine and taken 2 years back at Dussledorf.

 

What did you actually want picture wise?

 

C.

[Mel B]

Derek Uzzell - 2010-10-21 10:03 AM

 

All 2011 Challenger/Chausson motorhomes have a Webasto diesel-fuelled heating system that can be used while the vehicle is being driven. This comprises either a Dual-Top combination air/water heater, or an Air-Top air-only heater with a Truma gas-fuelled Ultrastore boiler for water-heating.

 

Our Chausson Flash 04 has theWebasto diesel air heater and a Truma Ultrastore for the water so it looks like its the same for 2011.

 

The gas locker is sized to accept just a single 13kg French cylinder, except for the panel-van models that are said to be able to accommodate 2 x 7kg bottles. (Odd this, as I've never heard of a 7kg French gas bottle!) The 'single bottle' locker probably doesn't matter much to a French buyer, but may be significant to a UK potential Chausson purchaser (Challengers currently aren't officially marketed in the UK), as Calor 13kg/15kg bottles are slightly larger than French ones. Obviously there are ways that this limitation can be circumvented - I just mention it as a throw-away observation.

 

We have a Gaslow 11kg bottle in our locker with room to spare at the front and side, not enough for another bottle, but plenty of room for bits and pieces. The Gaslow bottle is the same height as the Calor 13kg propane bottle at 580mm, and the Gaslow bottle has a diameter of 504 compared to the Calor at 515mm, so as the Calor is only 11mm more, I don't envisage any problems with anyone getting a Calor 13kg cylinder in a Chausson Flash 04 locker.

[Derek Uzzell]

Clive - 2010-10-21 2:57 PM

 

The photo,s of the Merc / AlKo chassis in MMM were mine and taken 2 years back at Dussledorf.

 

What did you actually want picture wise?

 

C.

 

Clive,

 

If you re-read the first sentence of my original posting, you'll see that I was referring to "the latest Mercedes-based TAG-AXLE Al-Ko chassis" (ie. a chassis with two rear axles), not the version shown in your photos.

 

There are plenty of photos of the 'bare' tag-axle Mercedes chassis in recent French motorhome magazines (and, presumably, in German ones too), but I can't find any on the Internet. Best I can do is offer a link to an advert showing a Pilote model based on the latest chassis.

 

http://www.ulrich-campingcars.fr/base_661.aspx

 

[Derek Uzzell]

Mel B - 2010-10-21 5:09 PM

 

Derek Uzzell - 2010-10-21 10:03 AM

 

All 2011 Challenger/Chausson motorhomes have a Webasto diesel-fuelled heating system that can be used while the vehicle is being driven. This comprises either a Dual-Top combination air/water heater, or an Air-Top air-only heater with a Truma gas-fuelled Ultrastore boiler for water-heating.

 

Our Chausson Flash 04 has theWebasto diesel air heater and a Truma Ultrastore for the water so it looks like its the same for 2011.

 

The gas locker is sized to accept just a single 13kg French cylinder, except for the panel-van models that are said to be able to accommodate 2 x 7kg bottles. (Odd this, as I've never heard of a 7kg French gas bottle!) The 'single bottle' locker probably doesn't matter much to a French buyer, but may be significant to a UK potential Chausson purchaser (Challengers currently aren't officially marketed in the UK), as Calor 13kg/15kg bottles are slightly larger than French ones. Obviously there are ways that this limitation can be circumvented - I just mention it as a throw-away observation.

 

We have a Gaslow 11kg bottle in our locker with room to spare at the front and side, not enough for another bottle, but plenty of room for bits and pieces. The Gaslow bottle is the same height as the Calor 13kg propane bottle at 580mm, and the Gaslow bottle has a diameter of 504 compared to the Calor at 515mm, so as the Calor is only 11mm more, I don't envisage any problems with anyone getting a Calor 13kg cylinder in a Chausson Flash 04 locker.

 

Mel,

 

I'm sure you meant to say "the Gaslow bottle has a diameter of 304mm compared to the Calor at 315mm". Traditional French 13kg steel gas canisters have a diameter of around 310mm and a height of roughly 580mm, so I wouldn't anticipate there being a problem getting a 13kg Calor bottle in either.

 

Nevertheless, having switched from a platform to a ladder-frame chassis for all 2011 FWD Ford-based Chausson/Challenger motorhomes, it's near certain that dimensional changes will have been made and this might involve gas-locker sizing. It's just a caveat for anyone considering purchasing a new Chausson.

 

My main point was that, having dropped gas-fuelled air-heaters completely from their 2011 ranges, Chausson/Challenger had chosen to reduce the gas-locker size on all 2011 models (except the PVCs) to match a perceived lower gas consumption.

 

Some motorcaravanners may be wary of single-bottle gas systems (in the same way they may be wary of having no spare wheel) but, in France, it's fairly easy to side-step the Chausson/Challenger restriction if you so wish by using a pair of small 'stackable' bottles ("Twiny", "Malice", etc.) designed to take up the same space as a single 13kg French canister. But this ploy isn't practicable in the UK, as stackable bottles aren't marketed here. So, if you buy any 2011 coachbuilt Chausson in the UK (and choose to use UK gas bottles), you'll probably have to accept the implications of a single-bottle system, whether or not that bottle is refillable or exchange-only. I don't think it's a big thing really, as plenty of people seem keen to ditch their multiple gas-bottles for a single gas 'tank'.

[Clive]

Here,s one under a Frankia Derek!

 

[Derek Uzzell]

Clive - 2010-10-22 3:27 PM

 

Here,s one under a Frankia Derek!

 

 

Yeah, there are plenty of internet pictures of fully-clothed Pilote Groupe motorhomes based on the latest 3-axle Mercedes Al-Ko chassis, but it's photos of the naked chassis that I can't find on-line.