fiat 250 again

[jobox]

i have obtained the following fax from fiat to a dealer which reads as follows

service news(copyright fiat auto) printed 24/11/2006

DUCATO (250) all versions

Engine shuddering during take off on a hill in reverse.

Following several reports of engine shuddering during take off in reverse on a hill,it should be pointed out that:

If shuddering occurs during take off with the engine speed below 1200 rpm it should not be considered as a fault.

Even if the vehicle can take off and start without accelerating,it is always advisable to release the clutch pedal gradually maintaining the speed above 1300 rpm.

 

which means that if you see a motorhome flying backwards you know it has a Fiat engine.

What about the sale of goods act????

[lennyhb]

That was released by Fiat over 2 years ago and dealers were openly showing it to their customers, when I enquired if there was a problem I was shown it.

 

 

 

 

[davew]

jobox - 2010-09-21 5:13 PM

 

..........which means that if you see a motorhome flying backwards you know it has a Fiat engine.

 

Why? Got a clutch haven't you?

 

Never been an issue with mine but I may have been lucky. I really think its time to move on though - you either don't have the problem or you've had it fixed. Life's too short

[rolandrat]

I've just returned from the Loire and a couple were there with a 3month old X250 with a stinking clutch after reversing a short distance. They left the bonnet up for some considerable to let it cool down and disperse the smell. It was a dreaded 2.3. I wouldn't touch one with a barge pole, thank goodness I have a trouble free manual 3ltr X250. I feel sorry for people who have bought a 2.3 not knowing its transmission history.

[davew]

rolandrat - 2010-09-24 8:52 PM

 

I've just returned from the Loire and a couple were there with a 3month old X250 with a stinking clutch after reversing a short distance. They left the bonnet up for some considerable to let it cool down and disperse the smell. It was a dreaded 2.3. I wouldn't touch one with a barge pole, thank goodness I have a trouble free manual 3ltr X250. I feel sorry for people who have bought a 2.3 not knowing its transmission history.

 

All 3 litres aren't trouble free and very few 2.3s are "dreaded". Problem is that a very large proportion of people who own motorhomes can't drive.

[rolandrat]

Davew, I think your comment about most motorhome owners not being able to drive is way off the mark, perhaps you can give us all some driving tuition but bear in mind I for one have driven most kinds of HGV's all my life and still do being involved with ADR 44 ton road tankers. That doesn't necessary mean that I am better than any one else just a different type of experience. As regards the 3ltr X250 manual Fiat I have never met anyone who has a problem with them other than an owner who had an automatic and his computer gearchange management system failed resulting in a very high repair invoice being presented which he refused to pay and Fiat head office got involved and had it reduced. Do you own a 3ltr X250 or are you baseing your comments on hearsay, if you do own one are you happy with it?

[Brian Kirby]

Re the 3.0 litre clutch, there is one member of this forum who has experienced premature failure, and I met the owner of a twin axle Frankia last week who had the same experience.  Both were large vans, and in both cases the clutches had failed at relatively low mileages.  Both would seem to relate to the high reverse gear ratio, and the need to keep revs up while slipping the clutch when reversing slowly, to avoid the severe vibration that results from fully engaging the clutch under load at low engine revs.  Lighter vehicles presumably impose less stress on the clutch under these circumstances, but once into the 3,500Kg + MAM range, especially with twin axles, it seems the clutch is prone to overheat badly, possibly with consequent premature failure.

[davew]

rolandrat - 2010-09-25 11:06 AM

 

Davew, I think your comment about most motorhome owners not being able to drive is way off the mark, perhaps you can give us all some driving tuition but bear in mind I for one have driven most kinds of HGV's all my life and still do being involved with ADR 44 ton road tankers. That doesn't necessary mean that I am better than any one else just a different type of experience. As regards the 3ltr X250 manual Fiat I have never met anyone who has a problem with them other than an owner who had an automatic and his computer gearchange management system failed resulting in a very high repair invoice being presented which he refused to pay and Fiat head office got involved and had it reduced. Do you own a 3ltr X250 or are you baseing your comments on hearsay, if you do own one are you happy with it?

 

You need to chill out a bit. I didn't say "most" I said a "large proportion" - ok? Thanks for your CV, having read it I have no doubt you are a splendidly competant driver and as such would not fall into the "large proportion" category.

 

There have been probs with 3 litre clutches just as there have been with Transits and Renaults. Thanks Brian for the supportive post above.

 

I have a mate with a 3 litre and it had a failed water pump. Shall we go on about that?

 

I'm sorry but I just hate this labelling of 2.3 engined versions as mine has been absolutely faultless. Keep smiling :-)

[Guest Peter James]

Should have bought a Transit. You could have got 800 miles out of the clutch - link: http://www.wildcamping.co.uk/forums/motorhome-problems/11496-new-motorhome-clutch-problem.html 8-)

[Mel B]

davew - 2010-09-23 7:10 PM

 

jobox - 2010-09-21 5:13 PM

 

..........which means that if you see a motorhome flying backwards you know it has a Fiat engine.

 

Why? Got a clutch haven't you?

 

Never been an issue with mine but I may have been lucky. I really think its time to move on though - you either don't have the problem or you've had it fixed. Life's too short

 

You've forgotten the other categories:

 

... those who have had the 'fix' but it didn't work;

... those who have the problem but haven't been in the situation to experienced it yet ...

 

Have you had a read of the previous threads on the subject?

 

I'm sure those who have had, and still have, the judder problems won't really appreciated your posting.

[davew]

Yes, to all your questions. Had my X250 over 3 years, done 25k, faultless.

 

Had the scuttle fix (waste of time), got the engine cover (only cos it was free). Read all the postings on all the forums (including the million or so on MHF), concluded that many (not all though) were scare mongering, neurotic eccentrics will nothing much else to do.

 

Anyway you should worry - you've got a tranny, lol

[jhorsf]

Just because Melb sticks up for herself no need to call her a tranny :D

[davew]

LOL

[flicka]

davew - 2010-10-03 9:00 PM

 

Yes, to all your questions. Had my X250 over 3 years, done 25k, faultless.

 

Had the scuttle fix (waste of time), got the engine cover (only cos it was free). Read all the postings on all the forums (including the million or so on MHF), concluded that many (not all though) were scare mongering, neurotic eccentrics will nothing much else to do.

 

Anyway you should worry - you've got a tranny, lol

 

Davew

If your statement had any substance of fact, I KNOW that FIAT or PEUGEOT would have done anything regarding replacing Gearboxes, Clutches, Engine mountings, etc..

Your statement is quite frankly totally out of order & dismissive of actual facts.

Many new Motorhomers look to the forums for FACTS & the FACT is that SOME Sevel base vehicles, whether standard or X/250 Chassis DO suffer from these problem & to dismiss them is IMO stupidity.

So anyone contemplating purchase of a 2006 to2009 model FIAT, PEUGEOT or CITROEN based vehicle needs to be informed, because as a RECALL has not been issued there is every possibility that there are Vehicles for Sale that have NOT been rectified.

[rolandrat]

Well put Flicka.

[davew]

Flika, you should read my postings again. There is nothing in there that is factually incorrect. You come at it from a prejudiced angle and are imagining that there is. "Shouting" (bold caps) doesn't strengthen your argument.

 

BTW be it motorhoming or any other topic in life I think that forums are the last places you would look for for "facts"! Most of the "facts" posted on forums of whatever subject are either regurgitated "facts" previously posted by equally unknowing individuals, often in ignorance or "facts" overheard in the pub, but then sometimes of course are quite accurate and informative. The latter being mixed with the former means that forum "facts" should be read for the purposes of light entertainment and little more. - Bit like this thread really.

 

ps: don't choke on your horlicks

 

(lol)

[Mel B]

davew - 2010-10-03 9:00 PM

 

Yes, to all your questions. Had my X250 over 3 years, done 25k, faultless.

 

Had the scuttle fix (waste of time), got the engine cover (only cos it was free). Read all the postings on all the forums (including the million or so on MHF), concluded that many (not all though) were scare mongering, neurotic eccentrics will nothing much else to do.

 

Anyway you should worry - you've got a tranny, lol

 

Scaremongering and neurotic eccentrics ... I'd love to know how they came to those conclusions. Instead of "scarmongering" think "advising", instead of "neurotic eccentrics" think "worried owners/potential owners". It puts it into a new light then.

 

Yes, we have got a tranny and it is because of the judder fiasco with Fiats that we have! Had they not been so bad in sorting out the problem, or had the problem in the first place, we could quite happily have bought one as we'd had Fiats previously. But I don't go looking for trouble, especially since we were, and still are, contemplating only having the motorhome as our normal vehicle, so if it had probelms and was stuck in the garage, or unusable as some owners have found with their Fiats, that would cause us a major problem so was a risk we simply were not happy to take. Our previous Mk6 tranny was a lovely 'van to drive and the Mk 7 hasn't disappointed either so we are very happy with our decision.

 

So, to sum up, the Fiat fiasco has lost them at least one customer, and I wonder how many more ...

 

I'm pleased you have one of those wonderful Fiats that does what it should ... that's all anyone who has one wants, unfortunately though not everyone was as 'lucky' as you.

[Rayjsj]

I read the forums for the same reason that I read MMM, to hear the latest news, gossip, see Road tests, and to be generally informed about whats going on in the Motorhome world, and It's nice to be able to contribute, state an opinion, or indeed disagree with someones point of view, or just silently nod my head in agreement.

There was/is a problem,with the X250, many people have suffered financially and emotionally, many have written on this forum, do I believe them.. yes i do,

Do I believe that you havn't ? yes i do! aren't you a lucky lad !

That doesn't mean everyone else (except you of course!) are exagerating or are scare-mongers. I still wont be buying a new or second-hand X250 based motorhome, and i tell everyone who is prepared to listen, Why.

Not scare-mongering just passing on information gained. ;-) Ray

[flicka]

davew 23-9-0-10

Why? Got a clutch haven't you?

 

Never been an issue with mine but I may have been lucky. I really think its time to move on though - you either don't have the problem or you've had it fixed. Life's too short

 

 

davew 24-9-0-19-0]=

All 3 litres aren't trouble free and very few 2.3s are "dreaded". Problem is that a very large proportion of people who own motorhomes can't drive.

 

 

davew - 2010-10-03 9:00 PM

 

Yes, to all your questions. Had my X250 over 3 years, done 25k, faultless.

 

Had the scuttle fix (waste of time), got the engine cover (only cos it was free). Read all the postings on all the forums (including the million or so on MHF), concluded that many (not all though) were scare mongering, neurotic eccentrics will nothing much else to do.

 

Anyway you should worry - you've got a tranny, lol

 

Flika, you should read my postings again. There is nothing in there that is factually incorrect.

 

Still saying your posts are factually correct. Never mind being condescending & implying numerous posters are Liars.

 

WHAT ARROGANCE & yes that is shouting, go back to MHF, or did they sling you out also.

 

For your information, I have a 2009 Peugeot Boxer & yes I am fortunate I have not suffered the problems, but thanks to this forum I knew exactly what to look for & that a uphill reversing test of the individual vehicle was necessary before purchasing.

[Mel B]

One thing that I would really, really like to know is the answer to the following:

 

Is the current, ie produced in 2010 Fiat X250, categorically free from the defect? :-S

 

It would be useful if someone with the full and total truthful facts could answer that please!!!! :-D

[davew]

flicka - 2010-10-04 9:22 PM

 

Still saying your posts are factually correct. Never mind being condescending & implying numerous posters are Liars.

 

WHAT ARROGANCE & yes that is shouting, go back to MHF, or did they sling you out also.

 

For your information, I have a 2009 Peugeot Boxer & yes I am fortunate I have not suffered the problems, but thanks to this forum I knew exactly what to look for & that a uphill reversing test of the individual vehicle was necessary before purchasing.

 

You're going to burst a blood vessel Flika if you're not careful. It isn't that important.

 

I stand by my claim that I have stated no "non-truths".

I have not intentionally implied that anyone is lying - please don't interpret my posts to mean that, to anyone offended I apologise.

I believe my views on forums is valid and shared by a great many people but at the end of the day, is, like the rest of the post, simply a personal view established over many years of experience (I suspect we are a similar age!).

I was not thrown out of MHF "as well" - does this statement imply that I am going to be thrown off of here? Why? Because I have challenged a commonly held opinion?

Finally, and importantly, I have never implied that there haven't been problems with some Fiat X250s - READ MY POSTINGS (sorry for shouting, lol). To those that have had the problems for real, I am sure it was cause for great worry.

Now as for trannies...............!

 

 

[nowtelse2do]

davew - 2010-10-04 6:58 BTW be it motorhoming or any other topic in life I think that forums are the last places you would look for for "facts"! Most of the "facts" posted on forums of whatever subject are either regurgitated "facts" previously posted by equally unknowing individuals, often in ignorance or "facts" overheard in the pub, but then sometimes of course are quite accurate and informative. The latter being mixed with the former means that forum "facts" should be read for the purposes of light entertainment and little more. - Bit like this thread really.

It's a fact that Fiat have had to make a modification to the gearbox which some people are happy with and some are not.

It's also a fact that Fiat denied there was a problem with it, and so did  most M/H dealers.

The problem for Fiat was that the chap who was first (or) one of the first to find out about it the hard way, was able to let a lot of people know about it, which I was and still am very grateful to, because it saved me a lot of hard earned cash and didn't give me any sleepless nights.

Dave

You say yours is 3yr old. That means its either out of warranty or will be shortly.  'Lucky you' I think.

[Guest pelmetman]

I know its not a Fiat, but just to show balance :D

 

When I bought my Ford Transit works van new in 99, as a owner driver I splashed out and had semi auto box full electric pack, aircon, ABS.

 

It was the biggest heap of c***p I had ever bought, clutch failed at 20k never had a clutch do less than a 100k before, they could never get the semi auto box to work right >:-( so they stripped it out and reverted it back to a manual and charged me for the privalege >:-(

30k prop shaft failed >:-( ended up threatening them with having the problems sign written on the back of the van >:-) they reduced the bill *-)

 

80k ABS failed cheaper to have it taken off than repaired *-)

 

The only extra still working is the aircon *-) and the van now runs fine as I dont use main dealers >:-) but a proper mechanic who knows Transits inside out, and he sorted out all the other problems some of which should of been down to a recall! But the dealer could not be bothered to tell me about, like the fuel filter which dropped off when I was doing 70 in the outside lane of the M11 >:-( >:-( >:-( Nearly ruddy killed me and the Mrs and main dealers wonder why they get such bad press >:-(

[AliB]

Mel B - 2010-10-04 9:27 PM

 

One thing that I would really, really like to know is the answer to the following:

 

Is the current, ie produced in 2010 Fiat X250, categorically free from the defect? :-S

 

It would be useful if someone with the full and total truthful facts could answer that please!!!! :-D

 

Mel,

 

Andy Stothart last post on this subject, (could be about Aug)stated that the latest information he had from a contact at Fiat was that vehicles produced from 2009 had all the revisions to rectify the failings.

If you dig back through the postings I'm sure you'll find his post. Sorry I've not got the time to get to grips with the search facility.

[Guest Peter James]

AliB - 2010-10-05 10:26 AM

 

Mel B - 2010-10-04 9:27 PM

 

One thing that I would really, really like to know is the answer to the following:

 

Is the current, ie produced in 2010 Fiat X250, categorically free from the defect? :-S

 

It would be useful if someone with the full and total truthful facts could answer that please!!!! :-D

 

Mel,

 

Andy Stothart last post on this subject, (could be about Aug)stated that the latest information he had from a contact at Fiat was that vehicles produced from 2009 had all the revisions to rectify the failings.

If you dig back through the postings I'm sure you'll find his post. Sorry I've not got the time to get to grips with the search facility.

 

Although first registered in July 2009 my Citroen Relay 120 L4 H2 was manufactured around July 2008. Reverse gear is higher than would be ideal, but has never been a problem. Have looked at many other vehicles since I bought it, but never seen anything I wish I had bought instead.