chris Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 Quote from dealer of £395 to fit 5" vision plus night camera. Can't find information on this make? Has anyone used this make? What other camera wired and fitted would you recommend. I have no intention of fitting it myself Thanks Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 I have seen the "vision plus" make fitted to a few customers vans and they're not bad, they're not the greatest either but they're not the most expensive either. Other brands worthy of a look IMHO would be Camos or Waeco, dearer than the vision plus offering but better quality, again IMHO. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 Can't from personal experience add any info, but for further details of Vision Plus products, including the reversing systems, see: http://www.gradeuk.co.uk/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 there is a lot of past threads re reversing cameras, here is one of about 10... http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=17799&posts=13 I remember one e bay seller that was getting good reviews on here with his kit, but cant find it at the moment *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 It may well be this one...... http://shop.reversingcamerasuk.com/epages/es106294.sf http://shop.reversingcamerasuk.com/epages/es106294.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/es106294_shop/Products/SYS666 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek500 Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 I got a wireless one off Ebay, £30. You attach camera to number plate, and hard wire to 12v circuit and plug in the monitor in cigar lighter socket (or hard wire). Works very and surprisingly good all round vision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris Posted October 12, 2010 Author Share Posted October 12, 2010 Thanks everyone, Looking at all the old posts and MMM last Nov now. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 We got a kit of ebay from Hong Kong, they don't do the exact one we got as it was the previous version to this which cost us about £40 or so: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/10-2-RearView-Mirror-Touch-TFT-LCD-Monitor-Camera-/130434588761?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_23&hash=item1e5e81e059 It has been wired in as follows: The camera has been attached to the bottom of the casing of the high-level reversing light. The power lead and image feed then go through a cutout already in the bottom of the casing and through a small hole which I drilled behind it leading into the interior where they are fed along through the cupboards to some existing conduit which takes them down to the underside of the van. They are then fed along under the 'van and come up through a grommit near the driver's seat and are fed up along the side of the door and windscreen trim to the covered dash tray just in front of the driver where the power lead is terminated. The cable for the image feed is then fed up the side pillar along the top of the windscreen to the LCD screen which is attached to the existing rear view mirror. The power lead for the LCD screen is then fed along the top of the windscreen and down the side pillar and into the dash tray. Inside the dash tray there is a 12v socket and into that we have a 2 way splitter so the camera and the mirror can both be connected to power there. We had considered permanently attaching the power etc so that it would engage when reverse gear was utilised, however, by doing it the way we have it means we can use the system as a rear view mirror (we haven't got a rear window) whilst travelling as well as when reversing, simply by plugging the system into the 12v supply. It works very well and the image is very good indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek500 Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 Mel B - 2010-10-12 8:56 PM We got a kit of ebay from Hong Kong, they don't do the exact one we got as it was the previous version to this which cost us about £40 or so:[/Quote] We've both proved that you don't need to spend big bucks to get the same result!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donna miller Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 Just a tip, we wired our camera to the rear tail light circuit. That way we can switch the camera on to check the trailer etc whilst on the move by turning on the side lights. The monitor of course is independantly switched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliB Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 I've not seen the Vision Plus system working but having a look at the link provided by Robinhood I notice the quoted specification does not give much detail. I am always suspicious of a company which ommits specifcations as it usually means that product has a poor spec. The Waeco products are the best on the market but that comes with a price. As a beginners guide you should consider the following points. There are 2 basic types of light sensor, a CCD and CMOS. CCD gives much clearer images expecially when operating under night vision. The Sony CCD is the best on the market, although the Sharp CCD is probably good enough for a reversing camera. The camera body must have a waterproof rating of IP67 or greater. Any less and you risk water ingress after a couple of years. The resolution of the camera should be 420TVL or greater. You do not really need high definition images for reversing. The angle of view should be at least 110 degrees. Many CMOS cameras have poor a angle of view. The camera should be mounted as high as possible pointing downward to optimse the viewing area. A camera mounted low down on a number plate will have huge blind spots at each side, meaning you will not see the corners of the vehicle. Wireless cameras can work for some people but are prone to interference or swamping by a stronger signal. I don't see the point in fitting a wireless camera as you still have to drill a hole to run a power cable so it is not much more effort to run the cable back to a monitor. A poorly fitted (in the wrong place) camera would put me of buying a secondhand vehicle as the first thing I'd want to do is remove the camera and reposition it. This would leave a hole that would need filling. Positioning of the monitor can vary according to each vehicle and personal choice. I current have one fitted over the rear view mirror. It is really too heavy for the mirror mount and vibrates when reversing over rough ground. It also blocks a fair bit of the windscreen as it is wider than the rearview mirror even although the active viewing area is about the same as the original mirror. In bright sunshine the monitor contrast is challenged.This is because you are trying to look at a screen with bright light behind it. It is much better to mount the monitor in a lower position. On the dashboard between the driver and door (right hand drive) allows you to quickly scan your eyes from the door mirror to the monitor. Another good place to mount the monitor is above the rear view mirror although you may need to alter the headlining to find a secure mounting point. The monitor is then viewed against a dark background which will improve its perceived contrast. The Waeco monitors have a clip out craddle so you can remove the monitor when parked. Hence avoid leaving temptation to would-be thieves. A rearview camera is different in that will be mounted to look straight out from the rear of the vehicle and simulate a rear view mirror. Waeco do a neat product that combines a reversing camera and a rearview camera into one housing. It is costly and you could fit 2 cameras of a reasonable quality for a lot less money. But it does not look so tidy. As Chris does not intend to fit the camera himself he will be governed by what the dealer can supply but make sure it covers the above points. I never understand why people fit cheap accessories to expensive motorhomes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 "The Sony CCD is the best on the market" The link I posted above includes one of these? In fact it is motorised giving view of road and down for parking/towing via touch screen... price of £282 seems OK to me.... How much do you think an auto electrican would charge to fit kit to a panel van? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek500 Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 AliB - 2010-10-13 11:39 AM I never understand why people fit cheap accessories to expensive motorhomes. I wanted something to enable me to see behind the motorhome, both when driving and parking. I got it for a few quid on E-bay and it does all that I want and expect it to do. I do have many expensive accessories in my MH. A Dometic fridge-freezer, a Smev cooker and a Heki rooflight. They've all had problems, which have cost me a lot to fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 AliB - 2010-10-13 10:39 AM I never understand why people fit cheap accessories to expensive motorhomes. I never understand why people feel that have to spend a lot on expensive accessories for the sake of it, when a cheaper product will do what is required. :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 JudgeMental - 2010-10-13 11:02 AM "The Sony CCD is the best on the market" The link I posted above includes one of these? In fact it is motorised giving view of road and down for parking/towing via touch screen... price of £282 seems OK to me.... How much do you think an auto electrican would charge to fit kit to a panel van? Hi Eddie If you are still looking at the Fiat 3.0L 160bhp Auto PVC, there should be the option of a Reversing Camera as Factory fit (Fiat not converter) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamw Posted October 23, 2010 Share Posted October 23, 2010 flicka - 2010-10-22 8:05 PM If you are still looking at the Fiat 3.0L 160bhp Auto PVC, there should be the option of a Reversing Camera as Factory fit (Fiat not converter) Has anyone got one as a factory fit option? What's the option cost and the quality of the kit fitted? Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 23, 2010 Share Posted October 23, 2010 I have a Waeco system comprising a 7" M71L colour monitor and CAM27N colour camera. This is a 'wired' system and, because most of the installation work is fiddly rather than difficult, I chose Waeco for its good reputation for longevity. Basically, I didn't want to spend a lot of time and trouble installing a system and then have it fail shortly afterwards. Although there could be no guarantee that the Waeco equipment would fulfill that objective, I thought there would be more chance of it doing so than if I opted for a much cheaper 'PoundLand-type' system. I wanted to use the system more as a 'rear-view mirror' than for close-up vision when reversing, which one of the reasons why I rejected wireless systems. Now, I don't know how other people find their camera systems when used as 'driving mirrors', but my Waeco system certainly does not replicate the crystal clear pictures shown in advertising brochures. If it were used as Waeco intended (just for reversing), then all would be fine - when the motorhome is near stationary the picture on the monitor is indeed clear and crisp. However, when the motorhome is being driven forwards at normal road speeds, the picture is much less good. I guess this is down to the camera's design refresh rate and probably not too surprising, as there's a big difference between clearly resolving a near stationary scene (ie. when reversing slowly) and clearly resolving objects that are continuously receding rapidly backwards from the camera at 50/60/70mph. It would be interesting to know how people with camera systems that are specifically designed to provide long-distance rear viewing (like Waeco's LCD790 system with twin-lens camera) find the clarity of the picture during normal driving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 23, 2010 Share Posted October 23, 2010 Well, it's quite good, but not perfect. It is very good in low light, and gives an excellent view in tunnels, for example. It is generally very good with overcast skies, but not so good in strong sun, particularly with the sun behind, when you get a white halo top centre instead, of the sky colour. It is at times sluggish to adapt to changing light levels, such as when driving from light to shade under trees, and I think the refresh rate may be at the root of this. On our first van Dave Newell made up a kit for me, based I think (Dave, if you're reading?) on a small Maplin's camera, that I mounted to look out through the van's rear window. Not for reversing, but for rear view. Can't remember the make of monitor, but the two were great together and gave, in my opinion, a better picture than the Waeco for a lot lower cost. I mounted the monitor to brackets I found above the (old style) Ducato headlining, in the vicinity of the interior cab light, so it sat approximately where the standard interior mirror would have been.So, why didn't I get one from Dave for the present van? Well, it has no rear window for starters, so the camera has to go outside, bringing in Ali's weatherproofing issues, and I wanted a "look down", as well as "look back", and the Waeco, as above, provides both functions in a solid, and fairly neat, single package that switches from "look behind" to "look down" when reverse gear is selected, and back when reverting to a forward gear. The "look down" view is very good, and has a wide angle lens through which one can see the rear edge of the van out to both corners, and an area extending about 12 feet behind. The "look back" is a narrower angle, approximately replicating the angle of view of a normal convex interior mirror. Overall, it is a nice bit of kit, but I don't think the overall performance, and picture quality, justify its high price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted October 23, 2010 Share Posted October 23, 2010 grahamw - 2010-10-23 8:42 AM flicka - 2010-10-22 8:05 PM If you are still looking at the Fiat 3.0L 160bhp Auto PVC, there should be the option of a Reversing Camera as Factory fit (Fiat not converter) Has anyone got one as a factory fit option? What's the option cost and the quality of the kit fitted? Graham Hi Graham There is detailed information on the factory Fit Reversing Camera in the Peugeot manual although as ours is a coachbuilt. Fiat commercial website Vehicle configurator http://www.fiatprofessional.co.uk/uk/CMSEN/Models/DucatoMerci/Pages/Configurator.aspx?sbn%5Fcounter=undefined&sbn%5Fdata=&sbn=1&sbn%5Fvalue= quotes £312.50, but it states you also need an overcab shelf. so not sure if that is a model specific item as I could not find it in the configurator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamw Posted October 26, 2010 Share Posted October 26, 2010 Hi Graham There is detailed information on the factory Fit Reversing Camera in the Peugeot manual although as ours is a coachbuilt. Fiat commercial website Vehicle configurator http://www.fiatprofessional.co.uk/uk/CMSEN/Models/DucatoMerci/Pages/Configurator.aspx?sbn%5Fcounter=undefined&sbn%5Fdata=&sbn=1&sbn%5Fvalue= quotes £312.50, but it states you also need an overcab shelf. so not sure if that is a model specific item as I could not find it in the configurator. Have finally found details of the Fiat rear view camera system. At £312 it really doesnt look very good value for money. The display is a 5" TFT-active matrix-LCD (320x234 pixel) and the camera utilizes a CMOS sensor. It's a specification that would have been commonplace a couple of years ago but the technology has moved on a great deal in this price bracket. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 26, 2010 Share Posted October 26, 2010 Brian Kirby - 2010-10-23 5:39 PMWell, it's quite good, but not perfect. It is very good in low light, and gives an excellent view in tunnels, for example. It is generally very good with overcast skies, but not so good in strong sun, particularly with the sun behind, when you get a white halo top centre instead, of the sky colour.... That pretty much describes the performance of my own Waeco system.I suspect that, for a really good 'rear view mirror' picture, it might be better to explore the types of camera/monitor system now marketed for racing car use. Whether the cameras would tolerate years of use stuck on the rear wall of a motorhome would remain to be seen. An example onhttp://www.goldstaronboard.co.uk/racecam/video-products/rear-view-monitor-kits/rear-view-camera-kit.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 26, 2010 Share Posted October 26, 2010 Interesting. I think the fault, such as it is, lies with the camera, and not the monitor. More, it is the rear view camera that shows its teeth, the reversing camera always giving an excellent view mostly, I think, because there is no sky within view. (Haven't tried parking upside down yet, so still a theory. :-))The algorithm being used for the rear view camera, if there is one, needs to be along the lines of the "landscape" type algorithms used in digital cameras, reducing exposure in the upper part of the picture. In short, it gets dazzled. I may try extending the "sunshade" or even adding a bit of grey perspex to see if that improves it. Anything you've tried that works? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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