panel vans

[arthurhooper2]

We are looking to buy a new panel van and have shortlisted three- an Autocruise Tempo-(on a Peugot Boxer) a Wildax Constellation (on a Citroen Relay) and a Globecar Globestar 599EKB (on a Fiat ducato). Can anybody help with the final decision?

[malc d]

arthurhooper2 - 2010-10-16 5:19 PM

 

We are looking to buy a new panel van and have shortlisted three- an Autocruise Tempo-(on a Peugot Boxer) a Wildax Constellation (on a Citroen Relay) and a Globecar Globestar 599EKB (on a Fiat ducato). Can anybody help with the final decision?

 

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

I don't have any knowledge of those particular vans but one thing I would look at is how easy it is to make up the beds - how would you feel about doing every night ? ( Especially if you are away for a month).

 

Most things on a van are a matter of personal preference so it's not easy for anyone else to help you choose.

 

Thing is to take your time choosing.

 

 

 

 

[Guest JudgeMental]

I am trying to sell my coachbuilt and buy a panel van at the moment. I much prefer the more practical (IMO) and popular rear transverse bed, front lounge arrangement. I just dont see these alternative layouts really working in such a small space. There are also some new slightly longer models (636 metre) with twin singles that are really nice....

 

MY shortlist is: Adria twin SP and Hymer 322 , The Globecar/Possl (same van) also a possible.....

 

here are some earlier threads on the subject you may find interesting :-D

 

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=17849&posts=130

 

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=20909&posts=37

[Mickt]

Have a look at the Devon Aztec, two models longer one has two single beds

[tommydud]

went from coachbuilts to panel ( 2008 possel 2 win ) adria 2nd choice will only have fixed bed layout more storage under bed . best van ever drive with faults still happy not looked in uk fitted out vans ! if over 6 foot beds bit short . longest time away in it 2 mths . only main grippe sliding door needs to slammed no inner handle will fit one 1 day . down side campervans dont wave thay may think white van man !

[colin]

All those vans are front lounge, so I would ask if you have experiance of this layout?

 

From experiance I've found the Autocruise and Globecar to be best 'screwed together', and the Wildax to be best equiped at a price but with shoddy workmanship.

[mirage]

We have an Autosleeper Warwick and are very pleased with it. I agree with checking on how easy it is to make up a bed ours takes about 2mins no problem at all. Bear in mind fixed beds take up a lot of living space in smaller vans, OK in the hot weather when life is spent outside, but on a wet day in the UK it can be nice to have some space.

[Guest JudgeMental]

Surely bed is not just for sleeping in, it is a massive sofa for lounging on as well. In a small space one can have a sleep in, and one be cooking, lounging whatever...... if bed in front made up of lounge area I think you have less usable space, as you have to do everything together*-)

 

2 mins to make up a bed and put on fitted sheets etc..... Benny Hill springs to mind :D

 

AND rear bed tips up giving a large load area for bikes etc...

[arthurhooper2]

Thanks for that - confirms what we probably thought. Gone for front beds because we can get 3 belted seats and not too sure whether we will buy a car. Have you come across any problems with front lounges. No experience of this layout - at the moment we have a high top VW T5 conversion with a R & R bed which we have really found great (with a drive away awning) but getting older and want a little more space (& a toilet).

[colin]

arthurhooper2 - 2010-10-16 9:42 PM

Have you come across any problems with front lounges. No experience of this layout - at the moment we have a high top VW T5 conversion with a R & R bed

 

If you like a front lounge then they do offer a large open area, we don't personaly like them as if one of us wants to sleep then the other has nowhere to sit without disturbing the sleeping one.

Rear lounges also give a good area and if one goes to bed the other can sit in cab causing less disturbance.

But like eddie we prefer the fixed bed option, it gives you two almost sepperate (but small) rooms.

Ya pays yer money ya makes yer choise.

[grahamw]

colin - 2010-10-16 9:59 PM

 

If you like a front lounge then they do offer a large open area, we don't personaly like them as if one of us wants to sleep then the other has nowhere to sit without disturbing the sleeping one.

Rear lounges also give a good area and if one goes to bed the other can sit in cab causing less disturbance.

 

Quite often the issue about what suits people most can be down to the simple activities you might undertake in MH. Short read of a newspaper or you like to stretch out because you suffer with back pain. I've been a caravanner for many years and have owned large vans which gave the greatest comfort and practical use. Now I've gone for a panel van conversion in my retirement. I've ordered a Vantage Sol PVC. Rear lounge which makes up into a king size bed or just leave it as two singles. Could leave it made up as a bed if you wanted as cab seats swivel at front with small dining table. The rear bed is a brilliant bit of design as you can leave a section out at the foot of the bed in the middle of a king size bed to make it easy to get out of without disturbing your partner.

 

The attention to detail at Vantage is refreshing. You can tell the company understands anthropmetric data (use of data about the human body in order to design furniture which is comfortable). This can't be said for all PVC's where something is made a particular size simply because it fits. Witness feet swinging from seats or the seat is so deep it fouls the back of your legs or the seat is too narrow and you slide off. Discomfort is immediately felt as free blood flow is affected in such ill fitting furniture. The design and build quality at Vantage ranks alongside some of the best in Europe.

 

Graham

[rolandrat]

I.H. campers make quality motorhomes and it reflects on the amount you see that are advertised for sale, they are like hens teeth so good luck to Vantage as they seem to be an up and coming competitor for them.

[Guest JudgeMental]

Just had a look at the Vantage, at nearly £44.000 for what looks like a very basic and unrefined 2 berth no thanks! You can get a decent quality, and better specified German van for almost £10,000 cheaper *-)

[malc d]

The ' lounge ' area has been mentioned a couple of times.

 

One thing I don't like about some vans is that the seats are too upright and there is no room to stretch your legs out straight. That could be a bit irritating if you are confined to the van for any length of time ( e.g. horizontal rain outside ).

 

 

 

 

 

[colin]

grahamw - 2010-10-17 10:09 AM

I've ordered a Vantage Sol PVC. Rear lounge which makes up into a king size bed or just leave it as two singles. Could leave it made up as a bed if you wanted as cab seats swivel at front with small dining table. The rear bed is a brilliant bit of design as you can leave a section out at the foot of the bed in the middle of a king size bed to make it easy to get out of without disturbing your partner.

Graham

 

The Globecar PVC I'm awaiting delivery of, has a rear bed/lounging area, that can be two singles, large double with 'cutout' or 6'6"x6'3" double, a mid bathroom that may well be biggest in class that 'closes down' to be one of smallest (but how practical remains to be seen) and a 4 seat dinette at front(although 2 of the 4 would have to be small (lol) ) and it is finnished with 'germanic' clean lines, something IMO some more expensive british van could learn a lesson from.

[grahamw]

JudgeMental - 2010-10-17 10:42 AM

 

Just had a look at the Vantage, at nearly £44.000 for what looks like a very basic and unrefined 2 berth no thanks! You can get a decent quality, and better specified German van for almost £10,000 cheaper *-)

 

Hi judgeMental

 

I would assume you just visited Vantage's website and took a look at the pictures and facts presented to draw your conclusions. Anyone who advocates buying German simply because it's German and discounts the qualities of a British van simply because of a passing glance at a website may well be missing the points I made in my posting. Or indeed may well have such a fixation with all things German that a British PVC just doesn't enter into their thinking. Other people in this thread sort objective advice and that was what I was trying to give by teasing out some of the issues that separate very good design from adequate.

 

Graham

[Guest JudgeMental]

I just went to the Vantage website, looked at the generally amateurish, and not very informative (small size) pictures...Then when I stopped laughing at the price on the left and looked at the basic spec, small tanks, lack of lighting etc... I posted my reply

 

better specified vans available in Germany for around £35.000, even with the poor exchange rate. Are you seriously telling me this vantage is a better product with better resale value then something like a Hymer 322

[grahamw]

JudgeMental - 2010-10-17 12:29 PM

 

I just went to the Vantage website, looked at the generally amateurish, and not very informative (small size) pictures...Then when I stopped laughing at the price on the left and looked at the basic spec, small tanks, lack of lighting etc... I posted my reply

 

better specified vans available in Germany for around £35.000, even with the poor exchange rate. Are you seriously telling me this vantage is a better product with better resale value then something like a Hymer 322

 

You're right the website doesn't really do the quality of Vantage motorhomes real justice. But it's a small operation that probably doesn't have the budget to spend on publicity that some of the larger manufacturers have. Maybe in time that will change. I did a lot of my shortlisting from websites in terms of layout but only made the decision from sitting in the various offerings for some considerable time at all the shows over the last 6 months.

 

Why would I tell you that the Vantage Sol is a better product than the Hymer 322 or that it has a better resale value? I'm not saying anything of the sort but if questioned about the Hymer 322 I would say that it was not suitable for me, that's a fact not a criticism of the vehicle. Again my main point is that my postings are intended to be objective and are submitted as an attempt to tease out some of the issues that separates very good design from adequate design be they vehicles of British, German or any other origin.

 

You can't tell people what the best PVC for them is as its very much a personal thing. You can however alert them to your experiences and to give them some insight in the finer points of motorhome design. To imply that the German converters have a total monopoly on quality motorhome design is just misleading people who request unbiased advice. I'm also not telling anyone because I've bought a Vantage motorhome that it's better than anything else. I'm informing people of certain qualities it has so that in their search for their ideal motorhome it might possibly be their ideal solution as it is mine. It has absolutely nothing to do with it being British or German just a motorhome with excellent attention to detail in both its design and construction which certainly warranted the higher price in my book that you complain about.

 

Graham

[Guest JudgeMental]

Attention to detail? The seat backs are low and look very uncomfortable, and 70/50 litres tanks totally inadequate in this day and age. vans I like have 110/110 tanks, 125 liter fuel tanks, bigger fridges, bigger beds as well far better lighting, finish etc....and a hell of a lot cheaper. Not impressed with the insulation either, vans I looked at at Düsseldorf used latest closed cell insulation formed to vehicle shape which allows no moisture to penetrate*-)

 

I take your point re website and that you need to see these vehicles in the flesh, But I still think it astonishing to be asking £45.000 for a van with such poor pictures, the website no problem, its the pictures, and that is not difficult to resolve.....

[grahamw]

Hi JudgeMental

 

Thanks for your reply but I'm not sure how your responses to date have been any help to arthurhooper2 who posed his question regarding the Autocruise Tempo, Wildax Constellation and Globecar Globestar. All these I have seen and sat in for a while but found them not to meet my needs. This does not mean that they may not be ideal for arthurhooper2 and my sole intention has been to draw arthurhooper2's attention to range of motorhomes that may well have not come to his notice and might prove interesting. It may well be that they are of no interest to him because of their layout but having spent months of exhaustive viewing of motorhomes I thought it might be a constructive point to make along with observations about motorhome furniture design.

 

It's sad that our discussion seems to have degenerated into a discussion whereby what you want must be bigger than what I want. Large diesel and water tanks with their associated approximate 200kg+ payload. This is not helpful to the original enquirer who must be somewhat alarmed at the direction of the debate and subsequent advice or lack of it.

 

JudgeMental, whether or not you have obtained your PVC I do wish you all the best in it and am sure you will feel that you have made a wise choice. It is important though on this forum when someone seeks advice it is not met by people who feel threatened by someone else who dares to imply that they vary with their opinion about what might prove to be quite a good motorhome. Vantage have had an excellent press in August Motorhome Monthly and also just won the Practical Motorhome "Best High Top Van Conversion 2010". If you read those you will probably understand a little more about what I've been trying to communicate. Incidentally I have no connection with the company other than being a customer.

 

Graham

[LordThornber]

mirage - 2010-10-16 8:18 PM

Smaller vans, OK in the hot weather when life is spent outside, but on a wet day in the UK it can be nice to have some space.

 

Precisely the reason why we went from PVC to coachbuilt, we camp all year and underestimated the effects of small van syndrome in winter. Each to their own as ever though.

 

Martyn

[Guest JudgeMental]

Rear lounge layouts are not exclusively a British design? Here is a globecar/possl van, there are others, for approx £30.000 :-S

 

http://www.poessl-mobile.de/en/models/d-line/for2.html

 

My intention was not to bully anyone into seeing my point of view. But to show that the rear bed/front lounge layout in such a small space as a panel van is more popular for good reason. One thing converting a lounge into beds in a coachbuilt, another in a van.

 

your argument re weight and tanks is spurious in a 3500kg panel van, particularly with your choice of layout which offers little or no storage? practicality of larger tanks means, I can fill up with cheap fuel in Luxembourg and drive for days without worrying about refuelling or fresh or waste water...

 

It is a difference of opinion that is all, no need for the snide undercurrent in your remarks just because I suggest something you dont agree with. I may of suggested something the OP had not considered? Who knows! I am not a mind reader? just trying to be helpful, and not promoting anything in particular......

 

 

 

 

[terryW]

Just sold a Globecar Trendscout mainly because we now want less touring and more static winter sun. These are some of our experiences with Globecar:

 

1. After sales support from Dethleff was fantastic when local Ford decapitated it.

 

2. We had top of the range ford and it drove better than our car.

 

3. Combi 4 heater was a bit overpowering in a confind space.

 

4. Storage space was excellent with spare wheel under the floor (inside)

 

5. Just completed 4500 miles touring Italy etc and found it great to get through tight spots and small mountain roads.

 

6. Turning circle was the worst of all our vans

 

7. MPG with load and speed averaged over 34 but when in convoy with missus got 48!! (Not my normal driving style).

 

8. Blinds on the larger rooflight started to be troublesome after a while and when a sudden storm blow in half a pine forest things got worse.

 

9. Combi 4 exhaust close to only opening window in the rear!

 

I know you are not looking at the same van but I suspect some aspects will be common. Hope this helps

[grahamw]

Hi JudgeMental

 

Thanks for the link to the Poessl For2 PVC. It's not a van I've seen in the flesh so to speak so can't really say much about it. The website is helpful but as the English version for viewing only give data in German, and its not my first language, it would be wrong to prejudge it without having anything more than a website to make my judgement on. The interesting thing about it other than it being a popular British layout is that it emerges as a real competitor for Vantage Cub TR which recently won the Practical Motorhome "Motorhome of the Year Awards 2010 - Best High Top Van Conversion". Whilst the Vantage Cub doesn't meet my needs I do know a lot about it but couldn't begin to draw any meaningful comparisons between the Cub and the Poesll without being better informed about the Poessl.

 

One PVC that has caught my eye like Colin's post earlier has been the Globestar range. They do look well made but unfortunately don't produce a rear lounge layout. Suffering from a spinal problem I do need space to layout at times and I just couldn't see me getting comfortable in the Globestar. You'd also have to argue with your partner about whose turn it was to lay down. Prices for the Globestar were also slightly more expensive than the Vantage Sol when you begin to take into account things like metallic paint and passenger airbag which are standard with the Vantage.

 

Sorry if I've implied that your approach has been tantamount to bullying. That is not the case at all. My original point was to ask you whether you had felt threatened by my approach rather than I had felt threatened. I asked this as you seem to have reacted in a rather negative manner to anything I posted after I challenged your assertion that I really should be buying a German manufatured motorhome. Sorry, but it's the first time ever that I've experienced that in all my contributions to various forums.

 

I think your last sentence probably is a fair comment when you say your sole intent is to be helpful. There I can state that we do have common ground.

 

Graham

[Guest JudgeMental]

Graham that is fine......

 

You can use Google to translate websites if they dont have a translate button (most do these days) just copy URL at top and "Google translate" will translate the site for you.

 

I posted some links to twin bed layout vans on the "PVC" thread earlier this morning may be worth a look.

 

when I looked at the Vantage I notice they also still use the grey carpet type lining? Now while this was acceptable material in cheap panel van conversions in the 80's, to still see this unhigenic and horrible material in a £40.000 plus camper is beyond me to be honest....