Insurance for foreign travel.

[Brian Kirby]

Are we Brits being duped? 

I ask because on our recent trip to Greece, we met a group of 25 Dutch motorhomers who had travelled overland, in lieu of via an Italian port.  I first assumed Hungary - Roumania - Bulgaria, but was told no, Hungary - Serbia - Macedonia (FYROM)!

Talking to one of the organisers, I asked how they'd got insurance.  He was puzzled.  "No problem", he said.  "But Serbia and Macedonia", I persisted.  He shrugged, "It is normal"!  I pressed him a bit more on the details, so he went and got his certificate, which listed all the countries the Dutch are allowed to travel through on their normal, full comprehensive, insurances.  One exclusion was Iraq, the other, either Iran or Egypt.  Then with a grin, he showed me the name of the insurer - Royal and Sun Alliance - though he explained that they had sold their Netherlands business to a Dutch, or German, insurer a few years back, but the name continues to be used.

So, if the Dutch, a nation of 16.5 million, can generate sufficient insurance business to make it financially worthwhile including within standard full comprehensive cover, such countries as Serbia, Montenegro, Albania, Bosnia, Croatia, and Turkey, as well as all the EC member states and a big chunk of north Africa, without need for additional premiums, restrictive time limits, endorsements, green cards etc etc, why on earth can UK insurers, who supply a population, and therefore an insurance market, nearly five times the size, not manage this?

Final insult?  One of the group was Belgian, driving a 12 tonne Concorde, and even he had exactly the same cover! 

So, why is it that we in the UK have such restriction on where we can drive on our full comp insurance, why do our insurers make such a fuss about extending cover, and why are they allowed to get away with charging such silly rates when they do so.  They are bound by exactly the same legislation as all other European car insurers, they have exactly the same cross-bonding obligations as other European car insurers, and the list of countries that they could insure us to drive in is exactly the same, being established under the same European legislation.  Our lot just exclude a large number of non-EC states the others include as standard at no extra charge.  Why?

[duffers]

Why??

You've no doubt heard the old one 'why does a dog lick its balls?'

- because it can

Why do Insurance companies rip off their clients in the UK?

- because they can

 

simples - unfortunately

we may whinge a lot in the UK but rarely take action

 

 

[flicka]

AND in some instances there must be the same Company operating in UK & other EU states!!!!!!!

 

Were the Dutch able to give an indication of cost

 

One for our MEP's I think, Brian (?)

 

Or European Human Rights, but perhaps after MEP's.

[Brian Kirby]

The cost was only that of their standard f.c. motorhome insurance.  They had not needed any extensions, special issue green cards, additional premiums; anything.  Being 25 Dutch vehicles, plus one Belgian, I was assured that no-one had experienced any difficulty whatever, and that they were individually insured with a variety of insurers, just as any group of 25 vehicle owners anywhere else might be.

To be clear, this was not a group policy arranged for the trip, and the organiser, a retired (Royal and Sun Alliance, actually :-)) insurance employee had not needed to make any special pleadings, pull any strings, or give any special advice.

[tonyg3nwl]

Hi, Being all drivers used to driving on the right and with LHD vehicles, I wonder whether they might have to pay a special premium for driving on our super congested roads on the 'wrong 'side for them

 

It does make you wonder though, good old ripoff britain

 

I also wonder if their insurance for medical cover is any different, It should have been cheaper for them if they come to britain as the good old NHS would solve any problems for them as it does for all foreigners !!! We just have to pay more in taxation.!!!

 

tonyg3nwl

 

[Brian Kirby]

tonyg3nwl - 2010-10-28 8:41 AM Hi, Being all drivers used to driving on the right and with LHD vehicles, I wonder whether they might have to pay a special premium for driving on our super congested roads on the 'wrong 'side for them ............

No, because all EC states are included, as well as a far greater number of non-EC states than we get. 

It is very odd that UK insurers all seem to stick to the same, narrow, group of countries for which they will include/issue cover. 

I can't understand how they all arrive at the same conclusion, when insurers elsewhere within the EC, all singing from the same hymn sheet, arrive at such different conclusions. 

Surely, they can't all be talking to each other, can they?  Wouldn't that be illegal under EC anti-competition law?  Hmmmmmm!  :-D

[flicka]

Seems faily obvious to me that UK Insurers are NOT talking to their EU counterparts, even though in some instances they will represent the same Company.

i.e. Comfort backed by AVIVA (previously Norwich Union) is a German Parent Company & this situation is mirrored by others like AXA, etc..

[bobalobs]

GB Privege tours are offering a trip to Albania next year and say if you have problems arranging travel and medical insurance for the tripthen let them knowand they will put together a group of people "and try toget a good rate from a specialist company in Holland".

Seems the british insurers are more interested in maximum profit for minimum risk and complication and Dutch campers are generally more adventurous than the Brits?

[Petra]

Dont you think the insurance companies charge the Brits more because they can and the Brits are suckers for their insurance. When we lived in Greece and went to insure our Greek car the first thing they offered us was house insurance! Now no Greeks have house insurance but the Brits have everything insured and pay through the nose. Brits have house insurance, life insurance, car insurance, pet insurance, and medical insurance and anything else they can flog them. Why? In Greece nobody has insurance and comprehensive car insurance only pays out if they can get their money back from someone else. If the Brits will pay for extra insurance of course the companies will continue charging.

[ian81]

we have a French registered MH and the insurance comes as standard with a Green Card covering all of Europe and the Balkans -just excluding Albania.

All of Turkey, Morocco and the Ukraine are included.

The fully comp premium on a 2008 Challenger based on the Ford 2.2 engine is just over €400 and includes breakdown cover including up to 10 days hotel if the repairs take longer and repatriation in the event of accident etc.

This also reflects the fact that we park her on a public road and there is no usage restrictions.

 

ps and no 'tax disk' either!

[rupert123]

Brian you still do not say how much their insurance costs, I would suggest that all the usual 'rip off Britain' lot find this out first before shouting. My insurance covers Turkey full cover and all the others mentioned third party only. Not bad for £250, would not consider this a rip off. Perhaps some need to check out a new policy.

[lennyhb]

I thought the UK has the cheapest insurance in Europe.

 

I known someone in Belgium who has the same van as me & the best price he could get was 3 to 4 times what I pay, so perhaps the deal we get is not so bad after all.

 

 

[Timetraveller]

Just a thought - can we use these EU Inurers & benefit from these opportunities???

I may do a 'Google' & see what I come up with. I have a feeling from the back of my 'grey matter' that I have read of UK citizens using EU Insurers & even getting cover for full breakdown & home cover.

Time to do some research. (^)

[Brian Kirby]

rupert123 - 2010-10-28 5:34 PM Brian you still do not say how much their insurance costs, I would suggest that all the usual 'rip off Britain' lot find this out first before shouting. My insurance covers Turkey full cover and all the others mentioned third party only. Not bad for £250, would not consider this a rip off. Perhaps some need to check out a new policy.

Very good for £250 Henry.  No, I didn't ask how much.  Two reasons: 1 I had only just met the chap, so it seemed a bit invasive and 2, it wouldn't have made any difference because we can't deal with their insurers.  Shame, innit?

[Brian Kirby]

Timetraveller - 2010-10-28 5:54 PM Just a thought - can we use these EU Inurers & benefit from these opportunities??? I may do a 'Google' & see what I come up with. I have a feeling from the back of my 'grey matter' that I have read of UK citizens using EU Insurers & even getting cover for full breakdown & home cover. Time to do some research. (^)

You can do this if you live in, and have a vehicle registered in, another country.  Otherwise if you live in UK, and your vehicle is UK registered, to the best of my knowledge, you have to use a UK insurer.

[Brian Kirby]

lennyhb - 2010-10-28 5:46 PM I thought the UK has the cheapest insurance in Europe. I known someone in Belgium who has the same van as me & the best price he could get was 3 to 4 times what I pay, so perhaps the deal we get is not so bad after all.

Wasn't price I was on about, but the countries for which you can get cover.  Rates vary widely within UK, depending on address and driver profile, so I don't think it is ever very helpful to know what someone else pays - there are just too many variables for comparisons to be valid. So far as I know, you can't get f.c. insurance at any price for many of the countries their insurances covered as standard, and for quite a few you can't even get third party only cover from a UK insurer.  All you can do is but local "Road Traffic Acts" type insurance at the frontier, with all the increased risk that implies.  Why are we treated so differently, often by the same insurers who insure the mainlanders?

[rupert123]

Brian the price does have a bearing, they could be paying a lot of money for this. As to one suggestion of investigating EU insurers, even if you get it you will not like the price. Did not mention I am with the NFU so to say no UK insurers will cover is simply not correct.

[Brian Kirby]

So where can you go, Henry?  Or perhaps, where will NFU not let you not go?  They sound well worth investigating.  Most UK insurers, I think, will cover the whole of the EU area plus Croatia, but many won't cover Bosnia, or attach time limits and/or charge for the green card.  I had understood Albania, FYROM, Serbia, and Montenegro were pretty well out of bounds, and Turkey would only be covered third party.

[lennyhb]

Brian Kirby - 2010-10-28 7:29 PM

lennyhb - 2010-10-28 5:46 PM I thought the UK has the cheapest insurance in Europe. I known someone in Belgium who has the same van as me & the best price he could get was 3 to 4 times what I pay, so perhaps the deal we get is not so bad after all.

Wasn't price I was on about, but the countries for which you can get cover.  Rates vary widely within UK, depending on address and driver profile, so I don't think it is ever very helpful to know what someone else pays - there are just too many variables for comparisons to be valid. So far as I know, you can't get f.c. insurance at any price for many of the countries their insurances covered as standard, and for quite a few you can't even get third party only cover from a UK insurer.  All you can do is but local "Road Traffic Acts" type insurance at the frontier, with all the increased risk that implies.  Why are we treated so differently, often by the same insurers who insure the mainlanders?

I think in this case it is relevant as the person I know in Belgium pays twice the amount for his Motorhome than he does to insure his car. Where as in the UK most of us pay less to insure a Motorhome than we do a car regardless of the area we live in as the post code lottery effects both vehicles.

[rupert123]

Brian Kirby - 2010-10-28 11:18 PM

 

So where can you go, Henry?  Or perhaps, where will NFU not let you not go?  They sound well worth investigating.  Most UK insurers, I think, will cover the whole of the EU area plus Croatia, but many won't cover Bosnia, or attach time limits and/or charge for the green card.  I had understood Albania, FYROM, Serbia, and Montenegro were pretty well out of bounds, and Turkey would only be covered third party.

 

OK Brian from my policy which is comprehensive. Full cover 34 countries, cannot be bothered to type them all, but they include Turkey. Third party cover includes Albania, Belarus, Bosnia, Croatia, Israel, Macedonia, Moldova, Serbia and M., Morocco, Tunisia, Ukraine. The insurance with NFU who have started to cover M/H now is worth looking at. It includes things like towing a trailor, rescue after an accident in the UK, legal cover. Most companies charge extra for this stuff and although I could have got cover a little cheaper for me the NFU is the best, I have always used them for my cars and business cover anyway.

[Brian Kirby]

Thanks Henry, interesting - though the list for which third party only cover is provided is disappointing?  Do you happen to know if this can be enhanced to f.c. for any of those countries?

[rupert123]

Brian Kirby - 2010-10-29 6:45 PM

 

Thanks Henry, interesting - though the list for which third party only cover is provided is disappointing?  Do you happen to know if this can be enhanced to f.c. for any of those countries?

 

I no idea Brian but they are helpfull at my local office so will telephone them after the W/E to find out.

[Derek Uzzell]

In the past, I've found Comfort Insurance a helpful source of advice about apparent motor insurance anomalies (in particular the motorhome importing issue), so they might be in a position to comment.

 

It might also be worth pursuing this via the UK's Motor Insurers' Bureau.

[silverbike]

Our insurance states Turkey as fc but when we enquired last year we were told this was only the 'European side' of Turkey and wouldn't insure us on the 'Asian side'!

[Brian Kirby]

lennyhb - 2010-10-29 8:32 AM .........I think in this case it is relevant as the person I know in Belgium pays twice the amount for his Motorhome than he does to insure his car. ...........

Hi Lenny.  The above seems to presuppose that the range of countries covered by his motorhome insurance is greater than that covered by his car insurance, and/or that his car and motorhome are deemed of equal value/risk.  Without that detail it is impossible, IMO, to draw conclusions.

In any case, it is not cost I am interested in, just the scope of the cover.  So far as I know, no UK company offers the possibility at any price.  If they did, even at higher cost, at least we'd have a choice. 

Interestingly, no-one has yet bobbed up on here saying their f.c. cover automatically includes the countries I originally listed, and even Henry with NFU says his cover for some is reduced to third party.