Gas pipe connection to rubber hose.

[deerhound]

The orange coloured flexable rubber hose the goes from regulator to copper pipe is perished. The regulator is the push on type Blue in colour. Went to local dealer this morning for replacement hose and was given length of black. On going to fit it I have discovered a mish mash of fittings on the copper pipe, on the pipe is a nut and screwed in this is a coupling which increases the diameter, again there is another coupling which increases the diameter of final threaded part to about 3/4inch O.D. on this is the old orange hose which is streached beyond belief! What is the correct fitting/fittings in there, should the new black hose be pushed over the copper pipe and secured with clip or should there be some kind of tail fitting going from nut on ther pipe? This is on a Swift Royale Ensign 590 2000yr. I have only used gas for boiling kettle and disconnect it again. Many thanks for help. (?)

[747]

As long as your rubber pipe is a good push fit over the copper pipe, Jubilee clips are satisfactory. It is only low pressure after the regulator and should be steel or Copper pipe to cope with unregulated pressure before the regulator. I would only use a specialised high pressure hose before a regulator if a metal pipe was unfeasable.

 

If you are in the least bit of doubt, get an expert to do it. If you do it yourself, mix some soapy water and pour it on the connections (with the gas turned on) to see if you get any bubbles. This would indicate a leak.

 

It does not really matter how many fittings you have, as long as they are not leaking. If you want to tidy up the job, again, consult an expert.

 

[hallii]

IMHO do not fit rubber pipe over a plain (smooth) pipe.

Use the proper connector, with a bulbous end and non slip ridges in it.

The rubber can slip on plain pipe, and any pulling may dislodge it.

 

The cost of a proper tail is less then a couple of quid.

 

Use proper (yellow) gas grade PTFE tape to seal. The white stuff degrades in contact with gas.

 

Orange (high pressure) pipe is not much more expensive and if you get a regulator fault it will hold the pressure.

 

Hallii

[rolandrat]

The safest way would be to use a rubber gas pipe BARB which can be obtained from accessory shops, once the pipe is fitted over it it can be secured with a jubilee clip and wont slip off. I wouldn't advise just slipping over the existing smooth copper pipe.

[Keithl]

Hi James,

 

It sounds as though you need something like item number GBHC8 at the top of page 55 of the CAK Tanks catalogue. It's a pdf download so I can't post a better link.

 

Some people may say that fitting the rubber hose straight onto the copper may be alright as the gas pressure after the regulator is only 0.5 psi but I would always prefer to use a proper barbed connector to prevent it being pulled off.

 

HTH,

Keith.

[Andy_C]

What's probably needed is a Fulham nozzle with a compression connection to suit the copper pipe size, see the hose nozzles on this page of the BES catalogue: http://www.bes.co.uk/products/071.asp

 

AndyC

[rolandrat]

The BARB can be obtained from CAK Tanks, if its an 8mm pipe the part number is GBHC8 and costs £3.09p The phone number is 0844 414 2324.

[747]

The original poster is replacing like for like so I cannot see why you want to confuse the issue here with talk of new fittings. It must have been working OK before the rubber perished.

 

BTW, when did you lot last do a thorough check on the condition of your hoses. It is probably one of the most neglected areas on a van. Out of sight, out of mind.

 

His second point was about how many different fittings are fitted to the system. Nobody is able to give specific advice without seeing the set up.

 

I am not trying to be critical here, we just seem to be drifting off topic. :-S

[Keithl]

747,

 

We WERE answering Deerhounds original post and had not gone off topic.

If you re-read his request he asked how should he connect his new rubber hose to the copper pipe as the old hose had been stretched over an unsuitable fitting.

 

Keith.

 

deerhound - 2010-11-05 1:40 PM

On going to fit it I have discovered a mish mash of fittings on the copper pipe, on the pipe is a nut and screwed in this is a coupling which increases the diameter, again there is another coupling which increases the diameter of final threaded part to about 3/4inch O.D. on this is the old orange hose which is streached beyond belief! What is the correct fitting/fittings in there, should the new black hose be pushed over the copper pipe and secured with clip or should there be some kind of tail fitting going from nut on ther pipe?Many thanks for help. (?)

[Dave Newell]

The correct fitting is indeed a "fulham" spigot and these can be got to suit both 8mm and 10mm copper/steel pipe. As Deerhound's van is a Swift it will be 8mm copper. The rubber hose should definitely not be stretched over a 3/4" OD fitting as described in OP, likewise it should not be just fitted straight onto 8mm copper pipe. Rubber gas hoses have a five year life, regulators have a 10 year life and both are one of the items I frequently see being used well past their "use by date", just this week we replaced a pair of 1997 gas regs and 2005 hoses.

 

D.

[747]

Hi Keith,

 

I also gave the advice that if he was in doubt, he should consult someone more qualified to sort it.

 

I am more than capable of working with gas fittings but I do not have the qualifications necessary these days. That is why I am not a suitable person to tell anyone what they should do.

 

If someone is not experienced in this area, too much information can only muddy the waters.

 

BTW, I originally said something to the effect that IF the hose is a good push fit it should be OK otherwise seek advice from someone qualified. I believe this sort of advice is the only advice that can be given from a distance.

 

You may well be right about the OP`s concern about the hose being overly stretched. In my experience this hose did go on to the pipe in the first place and there is a limit to how far they expand to fit. It may look worse than it seems.

 

 

[ips]

747 - 2010-11-05 8:01 PM

 

I am more than capable of working with gas fittings but I do not have the qualifications necessary these days. That is why I am not a suitable person to tell anyone what they should do

 

Very sensible. I and my company are gas safe reg and we have the relevent qualifications for LPG on trailers / caravans etc but I refrain from offering advice over the internet as working on gas unregistred and unqualified is illegal even if its your own appliance and if its not for money blah blah blah, regardless of how any one attempts to interprit the regulations. Yes I know that you connect your bottle but thats different. Yes I agree its a very grey area.

[sheer lunar-see]

Hi all, as a gas engineer, I would first ask a registered tradesman to do the job for me, as both orange L.P.G hose and regulator are date stamped, black hose is not, so should not be used. Regulators should be discarded after date and rendered safe, so no one can re-use. Secondly, the least amount of joints should be used, and compression joints should not be hidden from view.

Good luck.

[Keithl]

sheer lunar-see - 2010-11-05 9:10 PM

...as both orange L.P.G hose and regulator are date stamped, black hose is not, so should not be used.

 

and that's all that Towsure sell now!

I asked for orange high pressure and all they could offer was black low pressure so went elsewhere and got very recently dated orange for less!

 

Keith.

[flicka]

Or better still IMO, the Gaslow Braided Stainless Steel Hoses

May cost more but are a fit & forget solution. - 20 years life from memory.

[Dave Newell]

Black low pressure hose is perfectly acceptable in this case as long as it is gas hose and carries a date of manufacture, if it doesn't have a date on it it aint gas hose.

 

D.

[Derek Uzzell]

flicka - 2010-11-05 9:24 PM

 

Or better still IMO, the Gaslow Braided Stainless Steel Hoses

May cost more but are a fit & forget solution. - 20 years life from memory.

 

I'm not sure how you envisage your suggestion being implemented.

 

Traditionally, the UK leisure-vehicle standard gas system involved an 'on-bottle' butane- or propane-suitable regulator connected to the vehicle's metal gas pipework by a flexible 'rubber' hose. One end of the hose was pushed over a 'nozzle' on the regulator and the hose's other end (if the system had been properly installed!) was pushed over a similar 'nozzle' fixed to the metal gas pipework. At both ends of the hose a 'jubille clip' was used to ensure that the hose was securely attached to the nozzle. This is the type of system fitted to deerhound's 2000 Swift Royale.

 

Gaslow stainless-steel hoses are 'pigtails' with threaded connectors each end. While it would certainly be practicable to install on the metal gas pipework of deerhound's motorhome a fitting to match the connector on one end of the Gaslow hose, I can''t see how you'd connect the stainless-steel hose's other end to his on-bottle clip-on (butane?) regulator. As far as I'm aware, all leisure-vehicle on-bottle regulators marketed in the UK are fitted with a 'nozzle' that is designed to be non-removable.

 

You might well be able to do what you've suggested with a France- or Germany-standard motorhome gas system. These don't use our nozzle+clip gas-hose attachment method (in fact I understand that it's banned for French leisure vehicles) and French/German on-bottle regulators have threaded outlets that might accept (or could be adapted to accept) the Gaslow hose. But I don't see how you'd attach the Gaslow hose to a UK on-bottle regulator.

 

(Perhaps you are envisaging deerhound's motorhome's gas system being modified to use a 30mbar butane/propane bulkhead-mounted regulator instead of an on-bottle regulator? Such a regulator would accept a 'pigtail' like Gaslow's stainless-steel hose, but converting an 'old-style' 28/37mbar system to a 'new style' 30mbar one is generally advised against.)

[dikyenfo]

Gas regulations do not apply to mobile devices and therefore anyone can do gas jobs on MH's. It dont mean its going to be safe tho.

[flicka]

Hi Derek'

I hadn't realised Deerhound had a cylinder top direct connecting regulator.

 

On our Autocruise the Pigtail is between the Cylinder valve & Regulator inlet.

The regulator is fixed to the Gas Locker wall & the outlet pipework is all metal, through to a manifold with individual taps for each the appliances.

 

With the French connection you may find these "O" clips more suitable than Jubilee Clips,

http://www.airlink-compressors.co.uk/Accessories/clamps&clips.htm#_O__Clip_

Pincers for the "O" Clips are also available

http://www.airlink-compressors.co.uk/Accessories/clamps&clips.htm#PINCERS FOR O CLIPS

[deerhound]

Many thanks all for advise, I disconnected the brass unions at the nut on the fixed copper pipe and took it to dealer, on removing the 2 unions (which must have been to allow it to accept different types of gas cylinder?) I was able to purchase the hose tail connector, this screwed straight on to the existing nut on the copper pipe, I then heated the new rubber hose in hot water to soften it and pushed it over the hose tail using 2 new jubilee clips, I then mixed up warm soapy water turned gas on and spread the water around the ends of rubber hose, no leaks, A much neater looking assembly and safer? again thanks for good advise. (lol)

[Derek Uzzell]

flicka - 2010-11-06 6:45 PM

 

Hi Derek'

I hadn't realised Deerhound had a cylinder top direct connecting regulator.

 

On our Autocruise the Pigtail is between the Cylinder valve & Regulator inlet.

The regulator is fixed to the Gas Locker wall & the outlet pipework is all metal, through to a manifold with individual taps for each the appliances.

 

With the French connection you may find these "O" clips more suitable than Jubilee Clips,

http://www.airlink-compressors.co.uk/Accessories/clamps&clips.htm#_O__Clip_

Pincers for the "O" Clips are also available

http://www.airlink-compressors.co.uk/Accessories/clamps&clips.htm#PINCERS FOR O CLIPS

 

French regulations don't allow removable clips of any kind. Where a French leisure-vehicle's gas installation includes a flexible gas-hose connecting the regulator to the metal-pipework, that hose must have 'proper', non-removable threaded connectors at each end.

 

The UK's traditional nozzle+clip arrangement is permissible in France for domestic applications (eg. room heaters), but not for French leisure vehicles. Common-or-garden gas regulators for on-bottle fitting are often sold in France with a detachable, screw-on nozzle ("tetine") allowing them to be used for domestic or leisure-vehicle applications. Even when a regulator is sold without the nozzle, it's still easy to purchase a suitable nozzle separately.

 

It's possible that Germany has similar regulations, as my LHD Hobby was supplied with a 30mbar on-bottle regulator and the flexible hose to the metal pipework had threaded connectors on both ends.