Work for nothing!

[Bulletguy]

I'm astonished at the latest ConDem battiness.

 

People who do not try hard enough to find a job will be forced to work for free or lose their benefits, the Government will announce this week.

 

It's all very odd. Government keep banging on about getting people back into work but don't seem to realise that they themselves have just axed endless jobs shoving thousands more people onto the dole. Not satisfied with that they now want slave labour.

 

Just where are all these job vacancies??

 

Only this week I read an article in some paper where a young girl took to the town centre with placard in hand begging for a job......ANY job! Isn't that enough alone to shame any right minded Government into thinking something is seriously wrong here?

 

 

 

 

[thebishbus]

Hi. Last Thursdays Bimingham mail had an 8 page pullout, advertising 1300 jobs. 8-)

Brian B.

[kelly58]

Think about it they will not be working for " Free " they are receiving benefits to sit and watch tv all day so why should they not do something in return as we all know a lot of people on benefit get a better weekly income than a lot of hard working people do , its about time the long term unemployed who think being on benefit is a way of life had a wake up call and a lot of them have not worked long enough to contribute towards the benefits they receive. That feels better rant over !!

[nightrider]

thebishbus - 2010-11-08 8:11 AM

 

Hi. Last Thursdays Bimingham mail had an 8 page pullout, advertising 1300 jobs. 8-)

Brian B.

Yes, but what kind of jobs, non jobs? if they were anything decent there would people queuing up for them.

[nightrider]

kelly58 - 2010-11-08 8:22 AM

 

Think about it they will not be working for " Free " they are receiving benefits to sit and watch tv all day so why should they not do something in return as we all know a lot of people on benefit get a better weekly income than a lot of hard working people do , its about time the long term unemployed who think being on benefit is a way of life had a wake up call and a lot of them have not worked long enough to contribute towards the benefits they receive. That feels better rant over !!

I take it that you are in work? and if you are you know b***s all about what it is like to be on the dole, get off your high horse and get a life pal.

Dont blame the unemployed, blame the ones that put them there in the first place. >:-)

[kelly58]

knight of the road - 2010-11-08 8:27 AM

kelly58 - 2010-11-08 8:22 AM Think about it they will not be working for " Free " they are receiving benefits to sit and watch tv all day so why should they not do something in return as we all know a lot of people on benefit get a better weekly income than a lot of hard working people do , its about time the long term unemployed who think being on benefit is a way of life had a wake up call and a lot of them have not worked long enough to contribute towards the benefits they receive. That feels better rant over !!

I take it that you are in work? and if you are you know b***s all about what it is like to be on the dole, get off your high horse and get a life pal. Dont blame the unemployed, blame the ones that put them there in the first place. >:-)

No I am happily retired thank you drawing the personnel pension " Not a Company Pension "I paid for through hard work and long hours in jobs that did not pay when you were off sick . I will be another 2 years before I receive my well earned government pension I cannot receive any benefits because I have considerable savings that again was earned through hard work , Yes I have been on the dole on more than one occasion having been made redundant , but I never sat on my " FAT ARSE " I went out and found work not always the job I wanted but a job to tied me over until I foung a job I wanted , When I had 2 small children to provide for I actually did 3 Jobs had a council house ran an old van and never received any government handouts except child allowance for 1 child you learn to manage with what you get and live within your means . I know full well what its like to be bloody hard up , but now I know what its like to be well off. I allways feel sorry for hard working folk who get unemployed through no fault of their own having been loyal hard working employee's ,  but I have no sympathy for the people who have never worked and never will if they can get away with it no doubt you have some of these people where you live .

[Guest JudgeMental]

But this is the British disease, money for nothing.

 

This initiative will expose those secretly working and claiming, and why is it here we pay layabouts to layabout? this is not aimed at genuine unemployed but the lowlifes draining us dry

 

prisons the same, go in for a rest, a few smokes, watch telly, weight lifting, laugh with your mates....whatever. I would have then carrying rocks all day from one side of the yard to the other, sunshine or hail...

 

We would not see them laughing on the way back to prison then! and an immediate cut in the 60% recidivism rate.

 

 

[Bulletguy]

thebishbus - 2010-11-08 8:11 AM

 

Hi. Last Thursdays Bimingham mail had an 8 page pullout, advertising 1300 jobs. 8-) Brian B.

So can we assume Birmingham now has 1300 available "job" vacancies less this week? *-)

[Bulletguy]

kelly58 - 2010-11-08 9:26 AM

 

I am happily retired thank you drawing the personal pension.....but I have no sympathy for the people who have never worked and never will if they can get away with it no doubt you have some of these people where you live .

 

And so will I be too in six weeks time but that does not mean I can simply ignore those less fortunate.

 

Look....the point i'm trying to make here is that before sounding off about getting unemployed people back into work you have got to create jobs and build manufacturing industries. That means creating meaningful employment and restore peoples low self esteem......not annihilate it.

 

It's all fine and dandy for those on a damn good income or retired with a string of savings accounts overflowing with plenty of surplus cash to take the higher moral ground on this issue.

 

Government are tackling it totally the wrong way round.

 

 

[nightrider]

kelly58 - 2010-11-08 9:26 AM

knight of the road - 2010-11-08 8:27 AM

kelly58 - 2010-11-08 8:22 AM Think about it they will not be working for " Free " they are receiving benefits to sit and watch tv all day so why should they not do something in return as we all know a lot of people on benefit get a better weekly income than a lot of hard working people do , its about time the long term unemployed who think being on benefit is a way of life had a wake up call and a lot of them have not worked long enough to contribute towards the benefits they receive. That feels better rant over !!

I take it that you are in work? and if you are you know b***s all about what it is like to be on the dole, get off your high horse and get a life pal. Dont blame the unemployed, blame the ones that put them there in the first place. >:-)

No I am happily retired thank you drawing the personnel pension " Not a Company Pension "I paid for through hard work and long hours in jobs that did not pay when you were off sick . I will be another 2 years before I receive my well earned government pension I cannot receive any benefits because I have considerable savings that again was earned through hard work , Yes I have been on the dole on more than one occasion having been made redundant , but I never sat on my " FAT ARSE " I went out and found work not always the job I wanted but a job to tied me over until I foung a job I wanted , When I had 2 small children to provide for I actually did 3 Jobs had a council house ran an old van and never received any government handouts except child allowance for 1 child you learn to manage with what you get and live within your means . I know full well what its like to be bloody hard up , but now I know what its like to be well off. I allways feel sorry for hard working folk who get unemployed through no fault of their own having been loyal hard working employee's ,  but I have no sympathy for the people who have never worked and never will if they can get away with it no doubt you have some of these people where you live .

You may have been on the dole in times past, but the job situation then was not like it is nowadays, at the moment there is no hope and no future for the young and middle aged job seeker, enjoy your pension or whatever income you have but please keep your trap shut about thousands of others who are not as fortunate as you.Yes there are far too many welfare benefit cheats and I feel as strongly about them as any other right minded person but I would never jump on a forum such as this and slag off my fellows willy-nilly.Put the blame for the jobs situation where it should be fair and square in the laps of our so called betters who are supposed to be running the show.

[nightrider]

JudgeMental - 2010-11-08 9:45 AM

 

But this is the British disease, money for nothing.

 

This initiative will expose those secretly working and claiming, and why is it here we pay layabouts to layabout? this is not aimed at genuine unemployed but the lowlifes draining us dry

 

prisons the same, go in for a rest, a few smokes, watch telly, weight lifting, laugh with your mates....whatever. I would have then carrying rocks all day from one side of the yard to the other, sunshine or hail...

 

We would not see them laughing on the way back to prison then! and an immediate cut in the 60% recidivism rate.

 

Judge,

It is all the mamby-pamby do-gooders that have given our law breakers a better life inside than they would ever have on the outside.

A prison term is no longer something to be feared like in the old days.

[duetto owner]

round here employers have trouble as local youths either fail to appear for interviews or show no interest in working, too cosy on benefits.

[Bulletguy]

duetto owner - 2010-11-08 2:17 PM

 

round here employers have trouble as local youths either fail to appear for interviews or show no interest in working, too cosy on benefits.

 

What work are these employers offering? An opportunity to learn a skill and progress along with a sensible rate of pay plus the chance of a permanent contract after three months, or a dead end casual contract job on JSA rates with no future?

 

My betting is the latter.

 

 

 

 

 

[nightrider]

duetto owner - 2010-11-08 2:17 PM

 

round here employers have trouble as local youths either fail to appear for interviews or show no interest in working, too cosy on benefits.

I dont believe that statement for one minute, what an unmarried teenager living at home would get off the dole would be peanuts in comparison to what he would get working for a firm, too cosy on benefits, you are living in a dream world, in what area do you live and what are the jobs on offer?

[nightrider]

To put an intelligent school leaver into a non job when perhaps he would like to follow in his dads footsteps into a trade such as a motor mechanic, engineer, plumber, electrician or whatever would in my mind be cruelty.

Those of you who are saying to the unemployed get off your backsides and find a job its easy, try this.... send off a bogus application form to any company you might have had dealings with in the past or get on the phone and ring round asking if they have any vacancies and see what happens? lets see if you get as far as an interview or even get a reply.

All these people who say there are plenty of jobs out there never say where they are or what they are? And dont forget, you might be in a job today, but what about next week? when you are out of work you might be singing a different tune, count your blessings.... for the moment.

[Brian Kirby]

But it isn't all quite so simple, is it?  The present recession was not made by government, though it is true they failed to take timely steps to reduce the extent to which our bubble economy had become dependent on borrowing.  Be that as it may, the problem started in the 'States, and would have affected us, and everyone else, seriously even if government had acted more responsibly, it just would not have been so bad.

So what should government do?  Some say "create jobs", but the only jobs government can "create" are ones where it employs people, directly or indirectly, and another large group of people complain bitterly that there are far too many public employees, costing far too much to employ, so causing tax rates to be far too high.

From what I read, for every four pounds government spends, its actual revenues are three pounds, meaning it has to borrow the other pound.  I have no idea how accurate a picture this gives, but have not seen it seriously challenged.  In times of recession such measures are reasonable, but those figures, so far as I know, relate to the period before the recession, when the great boom was rolling, and when government should not have been taking on debt.

We still have great humanity in our systems, too much for some as can be seen above, but even humane systems must, at some point, succumb to the rules of economics.  I somehow doubt we shall see the unemployed in their serried ranks, shackled by ball and chain, being marshaled in work gangs to break stone.  The principle that if you become unemployed, you should do something useful in exchange for the pay seems to me quite reasonable.  I suspect many of the unemployed would agree.  Will it weed out the scroungers?  I hope so.  Will it resolve the issue of long-term unemployment? Ditto.  Are all the long term unemployed scroungers?  Of course they are not, but some do need to consider moving to different towns, instead of remaining in blighted areas, while others are more or less unemployable in the real world.  Should it be so?  In an ideal world, no, but the world is not ideal, and we have to live with it as it is.

I think, until we find ways of so ordering our economies that recessions do not happen (not likely soon, methinks! :-)), we should view economic upheavals as more akin to natural disasters, and respond to them as such.  They just happen.  Their effects are unpredictable, and fall on whoever gets in the way, rather then being spread neatly and fairly.  The main difference is that they don't physically injure, or kill, their victims - at least, not directly.  So, the victims are more or less as capable, though maybe rather shell-shocked, as they were beforehand.  Many, mostly those more capable, will find alternative jobs of their own volition, others will, and can, sign on. 

The only defence to economic upheaval is flexibility of approach, and a readiness to move, and re-train, and in the meantime, to take what is available.  Those who come out worst will, almost inevitably IMO, be those with poor education who have habitually taken on unskilled manual jobs.  Whether the present downturn does any worse for the latter group than bringing forward the inevitable, though, I'm not so sure.  Bit by bit, those are the jobs that are disappearing, and are exactly the jobs that immigrants, often with better educations, end up taking.  Don't want to get into the rights and wrongs of immigration here, but I do think the days of widespread low skilled manual work are numbered.  It will always need a few, but those from this socio-economic group who fail to change will, IMO, find themselves disproportionately represented on the benches of the long term unemployed.

Anyone see the TV programme last Monday (Channel 4: 21:00) called Coppers?  How would one get any of that lot into work?  That's what I'm on about here.  Those in the programme were the ones who take up most of the prison places, and cost us all a lot in the process.  But just above them in society are a whole other bunch, all of whom should be gainfully employed but, for similar reasons, are very unlikely ever to be on a permanent basis.  Solve their problems, and we'd really be getting somewhere.  No reasonable offers to Messrs Cameron and Clegg will be refused!  :-D

[Guest JudgeMental]

I'd grind em up into animal feed (alive)! after a good lashing, hangin to good for em!....The message would soon get around me thinks!

[malc d]

The title of this subject is incorrect:' Work for nothing'.

 

If they work they get paid benefits.

 

I sympathise with anyone who wants to have a 'proper job' but can't get one, but I think this scheme is mainly aimed at the long term unemployed.

 

As for the idea that the " government should create jobs " - how would this be done, bearing in mind that the taxpayers have run out of money to pay for any of them.

 

 

 

 

 

:-(

[flicka]

Whyis it that the Government always get the tongue lashing.

Guy on local radio this morning shouting the odds about the introduction of the new measures.

His background - he said he has worked for a total of TWO MONTHS, his age 45.

 

If he won't do something that may help society, why should society have to support him.

 

It's not about WHAT the Job is, if it's litter collecting so be it, it's about shifting the long term unemployed into a position where they are EMPLOYABLE.

[nightrider]

I dont think moving people to area's where there is work is a viable thing, firstly there is the cost and then there is the breaking up of communities established over many years.

 

What happens if the work in area's of plenty dries up? why not take the work to the blighted area's where there is a ready source of local labour by giving companies willing to relocate tax and rate rebates?

 

What we need is politicians and leaders with bottle not the rubbish we have now, two examples in the news just recently the judge who sentenced Roshonara Choudhry to life in prison for the attempted murder of labour MP Stephen Timms was subjected to a tirade of abuse from Choudhry's supporters in the public gallery, were they arrested for contempt of court, NO, they then went out into the street with their banners spouting their bile against the country that they are living in and off, did the cops do anything NO.

 

What about the high ranking army general who gave the order that troops presently serving in Afghanistan who are to be made redundant are not to be told until they return to Britain or they may become demoralised and refuse to fight, it seems to me that you can do your best for this country but in the end this country will s*** on you from a great height when they have had the best out of you.

Lions led by donkey's, how true.

 

 

[nightrider]

flicka - 2010-11-08 4:12 PM

 

Whyis it that the Government always get the tongue lashing.

Guy on local radio this morning shouting the odds about the introduction of the new measures.

His background - he said he has worked for a total of TWO MONTHS, his age 45.

 

If he won't do something that may help society, why should society have to support him.

 

It's not about WHAT the Job is, if it's litter collecting so be it, it's about shifting the long term unemployed into a position where they are EMPLOYABLE.

There are lots of people who would be willing to take on jobs such as litter picking or street cleaning if they were paid a proper wage, the trouble is a lot of people seem to think that jobs like that are not worthy of decent pay to whoever does it.

[nightrider]

knight of the road - 2010-11-08 4:29 PM

 

flicka - 2010-11-08 4:12 PM

 

Whyis it that the Government always get the tongue lashing.

Guy on local radio this morning shouting the odds about the introduction of the new measures.

His background - he said he has worked for a total of TWO MONTHS, his age 45.

 

If he won't do something that may help society, why should society have to support him.

 

It's not about WHAT the Job is, if it's litter collecting so be it, it's about shifting the long term unemployed into a position where they are EMPLOYABLE.

There are lots of people who would be willing to take on jobs such as litter picking or street cleaning if they were paid a proper wage, the trouble is a lot of people seem to think that jobs like that are not worthy of decent pay to whoever does it.

The government are the leaders and that is what they should do LEAD and set examples and if they fall down on the job that is what they should get, A TONGUE LASHING.

[Bulletguy]

malc d - 2010-11-08 3:54 PM

 

The title of this subject is incorrect:' Work for nothing'.

No problem to change that. Shall we call it 'Work for JSA' instead?

 

We have 16 - 24yr olds on £51 a week whilst 25's and over get a massive hike up to £65.

 

How many days will you work for £51?

 

 

malc d - 2010-11-08 3:54 PM

 

As for the idea that the " government should create jobs " - how would this be done?

Regeneration of industry which has been frittered away and lost over the years along with many of the skills which also disappeared.

 

 

[Porky]

Thank you Brian for a well considered and well written reply. Some of the contributions demonstrate an extreme political bias together with more than a large chip on shoulder.

[Bulletguy]

flicka - 2010-11-08 4:12 PM

 

It's not about WHAT the Job is, if it's litter collecting so be it, it's about shifting the long term unemployed into a position where they are EMPLOYABLE.

 

Know any litter pickers with a permanent contract of employment earning a decent wage? I don't, and I doubt very much such a rarity even exists. Those doing this kind of work will be casual contract workers on the minimum wage.....here today and gone tomorrow.