240kg load margin anyone?

[Poppy]

Personal bug bear of mine.New Elddis luxury van with a QUOTED payload of 240kgs.Unladen 320kgs.Wonder what the actual margin is.At leat which motorhome printed it but made no comment about it.Its the sort of van retired couples might want for extended tours.To me this makes it unfit forpurpose!

[bertieburstner]

Michael le Caplain gives it 4 stars in his "review" in December's Which Motorhome. (lol)

[Guest JudgeMental]

add a few normal extras and that figure easily halved *-)

[Poppy]

Meant to say unladen about 3260kgs.Add on the permitted 5% tolerance and as the Judge says, a couple of common accessories and what have you left?Certainly aires will be outof the question as you won't be able to travel with a tank or even half a tank of water.

[Poppy]

And it does make you wonder what some of these reviews are worth.

[euroserv]

I think it would be really neat if somebody could design a kind of camper van but without an engine. Maybe 2 axles would be nice so you could tow it behind a car with some stability and be able to load it and the car with anything you might need for the trip. I reckon if you used a 4x4 to tow it you might be able to get away with about 3,000kg of towed 'camper-thing' and you would have a car to drive about in when you got settled where you were going.

 

Would it catch on? I bet it would work out cheaper. Also; think about it... only snails carry their house about with them, and they are not exactly sprightly are they?

 

Nick

[Robinhood]

Poppy - 2010-11-08 3:53 PM

 

Add on the permitted 5% tolerance and as the Judge says, a couple of common accessories and what have you left?

 

I don't think the weights are measured to the conventional EN standard.

 

The info on the Elddis website indicates that the quoted weight *includes* a tolerance for materials variations, and given that, I suspect legal action could be in order if a standard one was shipped from the factory at greater than the quoted weight.

 

Nonethelss, payload is also a bugbear of mine, and it just isn't enough.

[Travelling Tyke]

Hmm, the payload situation in general is a bit of a sore point with me too.......the Manufs, make it, the reviewers review it, the sales staff sell it......

 

Do they point out this major problem? NOPE... IT,S DOWN TO THE UNSUSPECTING BUYER. (Ok so I,m shouting.....and it should be shouted out in ..........ALL of the Mags)

 

Wonder why it isnt?

 

 

 

 

[duffers]

euroserv - 2010-11-08 4:27 PM

 

I think it would be really neat if somebody could design a kind of camper van but without an engine. Maybe 2 axles would be nice so you could tow it behind a car with some stability and be able to load it and the car with anything you might need for the trip. I reckon if you used a 4x4 to tow it you might be able to get away with about 3,000kg of towed 'camper-thing' and you would have a car to drive about in when you got settled where you were going.

 

Would it catch on? I bet it would work out cheaper. Also; think about it... only snails carry their house about with them, and they are not exactly sprightly are they?

 

Nick

 

 

sounds like a monumental pain the butt to me,

you couldn't pay me to have one - well - maybe for a £m or so I'd think about it

[Tomo3090]

We bought our first van, a compass Avantgarde and had no working knowledge of payloads. We soon realised though! After we'd fitted the satellite dish, inverter, and loaded our clothes, crockery, bedding and chairs there was no weight left for water or food! we had to really pair down stuff to be able to get on the road. It's one of the reasons that by the end of our first week of a 12 week tour we realised we needed a bigger van!

[Poppy]

Well thats something I supose.Would still want it weighing though and no mention of this in the reviews!

[Tony Jones]

euroserv - 2010-11-08 4:27 PM

... and you would have a car to drive about in when you got settled where you were going.

 

Hmmmm ... so it would work REALLY well for those people who want to go to a specific place, make their home there for a week or two, set out awnings, windbreaks, barbecues etc, and trot around the area in the 4x4. I think you might have something here Nick.

 

Would it catch on?

 

Probably - but not with those who want to move on day-by-day, sometimes known as "tourers." I think they'd still prefer to be able to "put the handbrake on and put the kettle on," as they do at present.

 

So once again we're back to "horses for courses." Think about what kind of holiday you want (and how much you want to carry to make that possible) BEFORE you buy your van - with or without engine!

[euroserv]

Tony,

 

I think the point that you are driving at is that perhaps the people who need massive camper vans so that they can have all of the luxuries of home are not really 'tourers' then? Especially the ones that tow a car along behind them?

 

I think my idea needs a little refinement but it just MIGHT suit some people. Maybe the ones who would rather take the best silver cutlery with them and perhaps a chandelier instead of some LED lighting?

 

The others should invest in carbon fibre toilet seats, ditch the spare wheel, space hoppers and electric bikes and get that weight down a bit.

 

Nick

[John J Thompson]

euroserv - 2010-11-08 6:16 PM

 

Tony,

 

I think the point that you are driving at is that perhaps the people who need massive camper vans so that they can have all of the luxuries of home are not really 'tourers' then? Especially the ones that tow a car along behind them?

 

I think my idea needs a little refinement but it just MIGHT suit some people. Maybe the ones who would rather take the best silver cutlery with them and perhaps a chandelier instead of some LED lighting?

 

The others should invest in carbon fibre toilet seats, ditch the spare wheel, space hoppers and electric bikes and get that weight down a bit.

 

Nick

 

Buy an older Hymer. We live in one full time so we have everything with us. We tow a Smart on a Bantam trailer behind.

 

When we went to France earlier this year I got it weighed at Dover. We had 300kg spare capacity, fully loaded, fueled and watered.

 

Yes. We are tourers and use Aires. Off to Southern Spain now for the winter. Just seen on TV that there is snow on Shap and Kirkstone Pass closed because of snow. Brrrrr!

[duffers]

seriously

I don't think that 240kgs is much use as an allowance

depends what is included in assessment of course - really need a trip to a weigh bridge

but - if you've 3 passenger seats - allow 60 - 70 kg per adult - you'd have to empty your van just to give someone a lift

many vans are sold as at least 4 berth, and should therefore be capable of taking that many people

agreed there's a lot of 'stuff' put into motorhomes, like full size kitchen appliances - and they get bigger and heavier with every new model

 

not my idea of camping, but plenty of people seem to get suckered into the bigger is better approach

[duffers]

John Thompson - 2010-11-08 6:31 PM

 

snow on Shap and Kirkstone Pass closed because of snow. Brrrrr!

 

 

 

:'( :'( :-S :-S :-S :-S

[Tony Jones]

euroserv - 2010-11-08 6:16 PM

 

Tony,

 

Especially the ones that tow a car along behind them?

 

 

Yes, your method would certainly beat that - you'd only be lugging one heavy engine around for one thing!

[mike 202]

My well loved van (motorhome) came out of the factory at just under the plus 5% tolerance allowed under approval. It has caused us lots of serious planning and we cannot take 2 gas bottles @ 6kg, let alone the 2 @ 13kg that the locker is designed to take. Only 10litre water for drinking and 10L for washing at aires etc:

 

But with very carefull pruning of clothes/food and getting water replaced when we can and draining down in the morning we have just had 7 weeks in france and Spain and remain within our 3500kg max weight.

 

And would we have chosen our van with hindsite, well yes we probably would.

[teflon2]

Sorry Nick but hermit crabs also carry their homes around with them and they can be a bit nippy. John *-)

[Robinhood]

euroserv - 2010-11-08 4:27 PM

 

I think it would be really neat if somebody could design a kind of camper van but without an engine. Maybe 2 axles would be nice so you could tow it behind a car with some stability and be able to load it and the car with anything you might need for the trip. I reckon if you used a 4x4 to tow it you might be able to get away with about 3,000kg of towed 'camper-thing' and you would have a car to drive about in when you got settled where you were going.

 

Would it catch on? I bet it would work out cheaper. Also; think about it... only snails carry their house about with them, and they are not exactly sprightly are they?

 

Nick

 

I was intrigued, so I did a bit of research.

 

In reality, you would need a pretty substantial 4x4 to tow 3 tons (Your average, tuggers favourite, KIA or Hyundai at around £25K, wont). So you're in Landrover Discovery territory at £36K plus.

 

Add a twin axle caravan at £18K plus and you're already in high class motorcaravan territory.

 

So I'm not convinced you'd be cheaper.

 

Looking at the weights, with the standard KIA type 4x4 and a double axle (combined), it doesn't look like you'd gain much payload over the best of motorcaravans either, especially if running with an empty water tank.

 

You might have a bit more room, and yes, you'd have transport on-site, but some of us prefer to walk or cycle during our leisure time.

 

 

:-)

[duffers]

never mind Nick,

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

 

[Brian Kirby]

Nick, as ever, has his tongue firmly in his cheek.  The devices he describes, albeit somewhat lighter than his suggested MAM, already exist.  They are called caravans.  :-)

240Kg payload?  Farce!

[Poppy]

I would say we travel pretty light, BUT we travel for max 1 month in summer.No need for extra warm clothing for example.We drain the tanks down well too and probably are well within our limits especially as we have a decent payload anyway.We don't have to worry about that extra can of beans or my books or those bottles of wine we want to bring back with us.In France in particular they are getting very keen on test weighing outfits, fineing offenders and making them unload until until they are at the right weight.Have a happy holiday.

[Derek Uzzell]

In the November issue of the November 2010 French magazine "Camping-Car", there was a letter observing that most motorhome manufacturers (presumably that means FRENCH manufacturers) provided two fresh-water capacity figures in their brochures' technical specification section. The letter asked "Are such motorhome's fitted with two fresh-water tanks?"

 

The editorial reply was that there was just a single tank and, when two capacities were given (eg. 40litres/140litres), the larger figure represented the tank's actual capacity. The smaller figure was the amount of water that the motorhome manufacturer had calculated would be the maximum that could be carried if the vehicle were travelling with its full passenger complement and still remain legally within its 'chassis' weight limit. Taking the 40/140 figures as an example, the motorhome could carry 140 litres of fresh-water when static (eg. on a campsite), but (if it had a full helping of people), the vehicle might be 100kg overweight and would require the water-tank contents to be reduced to 40litres before the motorhome cold be driven legally. It was added that, if less passengers were on board more water could be carried.

[Poppy]

Its a minefield really isn't it Derek and no salesman is going to point out these things to you, even if they know them themselves.They also don't point out to you things like, no aircon in cab.Most of us assume its there because we have it in our cars.Nor do they tell you if the water tanks are winterized or not.This will be more important to some than others of course, but its nice to know.It really is buyer beware.