Winter of discontent

[nightrider]

Reading about the student riots in London, is this the start of a winter of discontent?? I have heard on the grapevine that motorhomers and caravanners are soon to be mounting a drive past 10 Downing St protesting about the high cost of diesel.

[CliveH]

(lol)

 

Any fuel price protest would get my backing. But only for peaceful protest.

 

Have to say with the recent violence at the student demonstration - it seemed clear to me that those students who attended from our local region when interviewed for our local news were as appalled as the rest of us at the demonstration being hijacked by a few hell bent on violence.

 

I also have a sneaky feeling that the lack of proper policing is a deliberate ploy by senior management in the police as now they can say "OK we tried it your softly softly way and look what happened!"

 

I doubt the police will get their overtime requests turned down next time there is a contentious demonstration in the offing.

 

[Guest JudgeMental]

It was not a "riot" for heavens sake! But a demonstration by 50000 on the whole decent and concerned young people dismayed to what is happening to the education system! *-) among them 2000 foolish enough to go into the square (including my 2 :-S) and about 100 hot heads who have stolen all the attention and played into the police/Cameron's/Murdoch's hands...

 

My son (17 A level student) has been grounded because of this, he was jostled to the front with his camera and I saw him on TV, I have explained that it only needs one smack from a baton to turn you into paraplegic, he was shocked the way things escalated and has seen the errors of his ways, I hope.

 

My daughter who is at the LSE was there also, but dancing at the back to the samba bands.. but the media ignore this and concentrate on a few stupid individuals who walked in through open doors? found themselves trapped and smashed their way out

 

hardly the storming of the winter palace for goodness sake! and blown completely out of all proportion IMO

 

This is just the begining....

 

 

[malc d]

In my dictionary it says a riot = "Disturbance by unruly mob "

and to 'run riot' = "behave without restraint".

 

I'd say what happened in London was a riot.

 

I think there will be a lot of sympathy for students but with harder times coming for a lot of people, not a lot of actual support for their cause.

 

 

 

 

 

[Porky]

There always has been and I would think always will be anarchists just waiting for the chance to turn a demonstration into a riot. My sympathy is with the police. I challenge any of you to stand there passively and be spat on, and verbally and then physically abused. I don't think so.>:-)

[Syd]

I thought that this "riot" was not really the students but more "Professional" trouble makers useing the protest as an opertunity to have a smashing time of it.

 

The police behaviour was very disapointing, they should be prosecuted for failure to carry out thier duty of care

[Guest JudgeMental]

high spirited and intelligent kids laughing and chanting does not make an unruly mob. You condemn the majority there from a few media highlights? Stupid and gullible me thinks ........Being played by the media/government and police

[Randonneur]

Yes, very intelligent, throwing a fire extinguisher off a roof onto a group of people standing below.

[Guest JudgeMental]

Randonneur - 2010-11-11 4:54 PM

 

Yes, very intelligent, throwing a fire extinguisher off a roof onto a group of people standing below.

 

One person?

 

and my kids where standing below.....

[malc d]

Methinks the judge is slightly biased..

 

 

;-)

[Guest pelmetman]

Send the bill for the clean up to their parents :D

[Guest JudgeMental]

malc d - 2010-11-11 5:19 PM

 

Methinks the judge is slightly biased..

 

 

;-)

 

spoken by somone whos kids had a free education I bet...

[oldlowie]

The Tories are back in power.

 

The rioters are back on the streets.

 

When will we ever learn (?)

[malc d]

JudgeMental - 2010-11-11 6:22 PM

 

malc d - 2010-11-11 5:19 PM

 

Methinks the judge is slightly biased..

 

 

;-)

 

spoken by somone whos kids had a free education I bet...

 

 

Good diversion from the subject.

 

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

I think the NUS was naive in assuming their protest would not attract troublemakers.  So, I think, may the police have been to apparently make the same assumption.  However, both parties are a bit out of practise: it is years since the last proper demo, which I think was probably against the poll tax.

What did surprise me, was the way the media seemed to lay into the NUS when it seemed to me quite clear that elements of "rentamob" (remember them?) were the main cause of the trouble and the damage.  For example, I distinctly saw one individual attacking the laminated glass with a hammer: why take a hammer on a demonstration?

The proposed changes to financing study are very abrupt, no-one has had time to plan for the cost, the scale of funding required is alien to UK, and I'd imagine the possibility of emerging from university in your mid 20s with 40,000-50,000 of debt, which I gather will attract 3% interest (but for how long will that rate survive?), repayable apparently over up to 30 years, might frighten off just a few.  Tell me, how do you get a mortgage, assuming you could theoretically afford the house (+ car, wife, children?), when you already owe £50,000?  Not exactly an encouraging start to a career, is it?

[oldlowie]

Brian Kirby - 2010-11-11 7:00 PM

 

For example, I distinctly saw one individual attacking the laminated glass with a hammer: why take a hammer on a demonstration

 

Must have been a motorhomer, Brian (lol)

 

I never go anywhere without a hammer, axe, saw, torch etc. 8-)

[teflon2]

Methinks the judge is prejudiced. If they have to pay more perhaps the daft degree courses will be dropped and they will return to higher education not the junk that the Mr Blair aproved of. John 8-) ,also the orginisers are responsible for the outcome as they failed to control the beast they unleashed, anyone with the slightest intelligence would know that the wreckers would see it as a great target . As a reminder Mr Blair wanted everone to go to university reguardless of ablility.

[Bulletguy]

However you choose to define it, it made headline news on BBC News at 6pm and covered the front pages of the tabloids instead of a single paragraph at the bottom of page twenty.

 

Peaceful protesting is a day out for the picnic enthusiast. You might just as well go and spend your time p*ssing in the wind.

 

As for motorhomers talking about 'protesting' (*-) ) against the price of diesel, driving past Downing Street is hardly going to generate much sympathy but will certainly raise a few laughs.....not to mention a few more bob in tax into the pockets of the Exchequer and Oil company barons.

 

Talk about scoring an own goal. *-)

 

 

 

 

[Mel B]

How on earth do you come up with the figures you're quoting about how much debt a graduate will have?

 

At the moment some graduates leave University with a massive debt, others with none at all. How? Some actually get off their backsides and do jobs to ensure that they keep their funds topped up and debts to a minimum.

 

No one forces student to throw pints of beer down their throats, or get donner kebabs and pizzas, or go out partying until the small hours. And before you lot say I haven't a clue, I work at a University and some of my colleagues are Wardens at the residences and if I told you the tales I could of what the little s*ds get up to, you wouldn't believe!

 

Contrast that with my nephew and nieces.

 

My nephew looked after himeself, never asked his parents for any money, got jobs to keep himself in books, food etc and left University with savings!

 

His sister, my niece, on the other hand, only did an odd job here and there, and wasn't adverse to asking her parents for a helping hand, and left University with some debt, albeit quite small.

 

One of my other nieces is the laziest lump I've ever known, she sponges off her mum (who works), and so does her lazy boyfriend. They are too bone idle to get out of bed when not at University and expect to be waited on hand and foot. I hate to think what debt she'll be in when she leaves. Perhaps if she had to pay for her own upkeep and courses herself she might not have gone to University which wouldn't have been a bad thing as she might have learnt what real life is like. She's due to graduate next year but I'll believe that when it happens.

 

My view is that if students aren't going to take going to University seriously and graft as they should I am happy to contribute as we have been doing to date and that includes them having a bit of fun by all means, but in moderation. For those who just want to go to have a good time and do nothing, don't expect me to pay for them, not a chance. When it starts to cost them money personally they might decide its not worth it and leave University for the ones who want to learn.

 

 

 

 

 

[duffers]

I [half] watched BBC Breakfast time when Bill n Sian interviewed two representatives

1 calm rational - looking to discuss the whole issue peacefully and concerned with loss of public support because of the activities of a bunch of plonkers

the other one - most emphatically not - seemed thoroughly delighted with events and looking forward to more of the same

 

the lunatics have taken over the asylum

 

 

*-) *-) *-) *-) *-) *-)

 

PS and I think a lot of them look at the Daily Mail / Express / Sun

[nightrider]

JudgeMental - 2010-11-11 2:52 PM

 

It was not a "riot" for heavens sake! But a demonstration by 50000 on the whole decent and concerned young people dismayed to what is happening to the education system! *-) among them 2000 foolish enough to go into the square (including my 2 :-S) and about 100 hot heads who have stolen all the attention and played into the police/Cameron's/Murdoch's hands...

 

My son (17 A level student) has been grounded because of this, he was jostled to the front with his camera and I saw him on TV, I have explained that it only needs one smack from a baton to turn you into paraplegic, he was shocked the way things escalated and has seen the errors of his ways, I hope.

 

My daughter who is at the LSE was there also, but dancing at the back to the samba bands.. but the media ignore this and concentrate on a few stupid individuals who walked in through open doors? found themselves trapped and smashed their way out

 

hardly the storming of the winter palace for goodness sake! and blown completely out of all proportion IMO

 

This is just the begining....

 

Not a riot, surely you jest 50.000 on the rampage is to my mind a riot.

[Guest JudgeMental]

"Not a riot, surely you jest 50.000 on the rampage is to my mind a riot."

 

No jest...I have eyes in my head and watched the whole thing on TV. The only thing that could be described as a rampage was probably 100 or so in square out of 2000 watching...while 48.000 went peacefully home on the streets outside...Ignorance and blind predudice is bliss

 

some of my sons photos....

 

P.S. Anyone catch Cameron's astonishing speech to Chinese students today? assuring them not to worry, and that their fees for UK universities will not be rising.....

[CliveH]

A few tangents here but I do think we need to look at the wider picture to get an overview. Focusing right down onto which bit of rent a mob was to blame for the violence is not going to be particularly helpful when the issue is University fees.

 

Vast majority of students were well behaved.

 

The students have a valid concern.

 

That said, we have to look at the reality of what went before whereby Technical Colleges/Polytechnics etc got rebranded as "Universities" and started a sausage machine of graduate production whereby some graduates could not spell, add up, or communicate effectively.

 

Sadly, I know, as I have interviewed many of them.

 

So whilst I came from an age where you got a grant to go to college/university that did not have to be paid back, I also came from an age when the degree you achieved was orientated to the workplace and relevant to your actually getting a job.

 

Nowadays you get lots of graduates with a "Desmond" (2.2) in "media studies" or "political science" who think they should go straight into senior positions and be on the board by the time they are 30. The fact that they are often numerically and word borderline illiterate in the work scenario does not seem to phase them at all.

 

So we have a huge dichotomy - some graduates are hugely talented and well trained within their degree course and have no problems (generally) getting a job and paying back their student loans. These graduates are the medics, the vets, the legals, the accountants, the dentists, the engineers, the scientists etc etc. The list is quite long.

 

Then we have the various '....oligies' that frankly are no good to man nor beast and apart from having a bit of paper that says you have a degree, the proverbial chocolate tea-pot is of far greater use. And the previous teaching regime is very much to blame here in that schools get more points if their pupils go onto further education. From my experience teachers tend to push kids into University degree courses on the lie that once qualified they will earn more. This is not the case at all.

 

So I think that we are going through a process of natural selection. If you have so-so A levels and want a so-so degree you can have one, but expect to pay for it.

 

If you want a useful degree that will enable you to work in a well paid environment you can have one but expect to pay for it.

 

The system of free grants worked well when a degree actually meant something. Now that we have degrees in all sorts of numpty subjects the free grant system just cannot work.

 

What I would like to see is for far more work based education like they have in Germany and other parts of the EU. Our education system seems to me to be far to skewed towards non-relevant degrees that do neither the individual nor any potential employers any good whatsoever.

 

 

 

 

 

[malc d]

I'd go along with most of what Clive says but would add :

 

If you get a "worth while " degree ( and a worth while job) you may well have to pay for it, but if you get one of the " so-so " degrees you probably will not have to, because you need to earn more than £21000 before you have to pay anything back.

I understand that is the current plan although the salary level may well change in time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CliveH]

Which is rather my point - make getting a degree expensive so that there is a selection towards wanting to get a degree that gets you a well paid job, rather than a job that commits you to low paid employment just so you don't have to pay the loan back.

 

Try buying a house on a low salary with an existing £40K debt hanging over you that you can be asked to pay back as soon as you get a pay rise.

 

One other reason why those with good degrees find employment outside of the UK very attractive.

 

I am not a supporter of what the Coalition is doing - as I think they are just feeding the brain drain whilst leaving the UK with semi illiterate graduates of poor calibre