Fixed Gas Tank

[bromleyxphil]

Some of you may know I am working through a weight reduction + payload increase strategy to see if I can squeeze in the wife in my van and stay legal :-D

My Dad had a CI motorhome L reg with a fixed gas tank for cooking heating etc - good few years ago.

Are these still legal? who fits them? and do they give any weight / cost saving advantages over a 4 to 5 year life span?

Phil

[Guest JudgeMental]

If weight a real issue refillable aluminium bottles probably better ... and yes gas much cheaper this way as long as you use it?

 

as for alloy wheels (from other thread) these can be heavier then steel wheels?

 

I think 100kg over limit without the wife, is a serious setback for a man in love, and your van "not fit for purpose" if it cant even carry 2 and a bit of gear *-)

 

probably needs chassis upgrade and all the costs involved and more cost still if you travel in Europe where 3500kg is the norm

 

 

[dikyenfo]

It does take 500 years to pay for the installation tho. taking the difference on gas prices and the amount used.

The super rich dont worry about this !!!

[Dave Newell]

An underslung bulk tank is likely to be heavier than your existing one or two bottles. A typical size for underslung tanks is 60 litres and trust me a 60 litre steel tank is a heavy lump!

 

As the judge says Alugas cylinders will help by saving you around 6KGs each.

 

D.

[Derek Uzzell]

Phil

 

I believe Dave Newell is being a mite pessimistic over the potential weight-savings offered by an Alugas cylinder.

 

According to the Caravan Club, a full Calor 13kg propane gas-bottle weighs 28.7kg (and a full 6kg one weighs 14kg). I'm not certain what a 2009 Apache 634U's gas-locker can hold, but I think it's 2 x Calor 13kg bottles, which would add up to 57.4kg overall weight.

 

A full 11kg-capacity Alugas cylinder weighs 17.3kg (according to my elderly Alugas leaflet) and, as the container is refillable, a single-bottle system should be viable. So, compared to the 2 x 13kg Calor arrangement, you could save around 40kg.

 

It is possible to download Auto-Trail's 2009 advertising brochure. The Mass-In-Running-Order (MIRO) of an Apache 634U is given as 3130kg, but I couldn't ascertain what 'allowances' this figure includes. (That doesn't mean the information isn't in the brochure - just that I didn't spot it.)

 

I would guess that Auto-Trail's MIRO figure only includes the usual allowances for a 75kg driver and a fairly full tank of diesel fuel. If that's true, then a 370kg 'payload' that may seem reasonable at first sight will rapidly diminish once the weight of a full tank of fresh-water (100kg) and two full gas-bottles (50+kg?) is taken into account. And then, of course, there's the further weight of options (the SE pack's awning is almost 40kg), any upgrades (2.3litre motor to 3.0litre - +50kg) that MAY need to factored in, and the weight of passengers and luggage that WILL need to be added.

 

Auto-Trail motorhomes have a certain notoriety when it comes to low payload. I remember saying this to Dave Thomas (renowned motorhome designer and Auto-Trail's joint Managing Director) at a NEC show several years back. I recall that my comment did not go down well, but Mr Thomas did say that, when owners had complained about lack of payload and insisted that the factory weigh their vehicles, it was often the case that an owner's conception of a 'standard' and/or 'empty' motorhome differed radically from Auto-Trail's.

 

When it comes to weighing motorhomes, the norm is to load the vehicle to its full 'holiday state' first and then check whether it's still within its legal limits. I'm going to suggest that, in your case, you'd benefit from weighing the vehicle empty to see how it compares with Auto-Trail's own data.

 

By "empty" I mean with all water drained down, toilet-cassette emptied, no gas bottles and EVERYTHING removed from interior/exterior storage. Fill the fuel tank and allow for a 75kg driver (3 x 25kg bags of sand?). Also allow for any options shown in Auto-Trail's brochure and fitted to your Apache and the weight of any owner-added 'extra' (eg. an additional leisure-battery or sat/tv system) that can't be removed easily.

 

Assuming that the weighbridge you've used isn't over-reading and your 'fully loaded' Apache genuinely weighs 3600kg without your wife on board, then (in principle at least) it may be possible to reduce to the 3500kg legal limit, still carry your wife and still operate the motorhome, just by running with a near empty water tank and a light gas-bottle.

 

I suspect though, with the amount of over-weightness you've discovered, that using drastic pruning ploys to stay always below the 3500kg limit when your Apache is being driven would take much of the pleasure out of the motorcaravanning experience. If that looks like being so, then uprating to 3850kg would be the sensible alternative.

 

[Clive]

Forget the supplied paperwork. You MUST take the vehicle with you and the Mrs in full holiday mode to a weighbridge and weigh it axle at a time. Its the only way to be sure. Be prepared to be flabbaghasted!!

 

 

[Dave Newell]

While I agree with Derek's calculations and potential weight saving details of gas cylinders I don't quite see why he considers my input to be pessimistic. A 13KG Calor cylinder (not calor lite) has a tare weight of around 13KGs to the best of my knowledge. A 11KG Alugas cylinder has a tare weight of 6.7KGs. I said you could save about 6 KGs per cylinder by using Alugas, was I wrong?

 

D.

[Derek Uzzell]

Dave Newell - 2010-11-15 5:16 PM

 

While I agree with Derek's calculations and potential weight saving details of gas cylinders I don't quite see why he considers my input to be pessimistic. A 13KG Calor cylinder (not calor lite) has a tare weight of around 13KGs to the best of my knowledge. A 11KG Alugas cylinder has a tare weight of 6.7KGs. I said you could save about 6 KGs per cylinder by using Alugas, was I wrong?

 

D.

 

"A mite pessimistic", dear boy!

 

The tare-weight of a Calor 13kg propane cylinder according to the Caravan Club is 15.7kg. Cylinder tare-weights do vary a bit, but the CC's datum seems about right to me and near-enough tallies with the Imperial weight shown on the 'neck-collar' of the 13kg Calor bottle languishing in my garden shed.

 

If an Alugas bottle's tare-weight is 6.7kg nowadays (though it still says 6.3kg on the Autogas website), that's a weight saving of 9kg over the Calor canister. The Alugas cylinder holds roughly 11kg of LPG, rather than 13kg, so that's another 2kg reduction, making an overall Alugas-versus-Calor saving of 11kg per full bottle.

 

What I was attempting to highlight was that a really significant weight-saving could be made by moving from a 2 x 13kg Calor-bottle system to one comprising a single 11kg refillable Alugas container. A 6kg-per-bottle saving does not sound much, an 11kg-per-bottle saving sounds a lot better, but being able to 'save' 40kg must surely be an attractive proposition for anyone desperate to put their motorhome on a diet.

 

(As I knew you were an agent for Alugas cylinders, I thought you'd be pleased. :$ :$)

[david lloyd]

Dave Newell - 2010-11-13 6:06 PM

 

An underslung bulk tank is likely to be heavier than your existing one or two bottles. A typical size for underslung tanks is 60 litres and trust me a 60 litre steel tank is a heavy lump!

 

As the judge says Alugas cylinders will help by saving you around 6KGs each.

 

D.

 

Sorry Dave - have to disagree with you here.

 

Just collected out new IH Tio with a Stako underslung tank which has a capacity of 20 litres. Not sure of the weight but it measures 200mm diameter by 717 mm long. This should be considerably lighter than a 60 litre tank.

 

David

[Keithl]

Derek Uzzell - 2010-11-15 6:17 PM

What I was attempting to highlight was that a really significant weight-saving could be made by moving from a 2 x 13kg Calor-bottle system to one comprising a single 11kg refillable Alugas container. A 6kg-per-bottle saving does not sound much, an 11kg-per-bottle saving sounds a lot better, but being able to 'save' 40kg must surely be an attractive proposition for anyone desperate to put their motorhome on a diet.

 

Or a cheaper way to save approx 30 kg would be to switch to 2 x 6 kg Calor Propane cylinders.

 

According to Derek's weights above 2 x 13 kg full Propane cylinders weigh near 58 kg and 2 x 6 kg only weigh 28 kg. Therefore a 30 kg saving for very little expense. If you ask a Calor dealer they may swap cylinder sizes for no charge, if not try another one!

 

Keith.

[Dave Newell]

Derek Uzzell - 2010-11-15 6:17 PM

 

Dave Newell - 2010-11-15 5:16 PM

 

While I agree with Derek's calculations and potential weight saving details of gas cylinders I don't quite see why he considers my input to be pessimistic. A 13KG Calor cylinder (not calor lite) has a tare weight of around 13KGs to the best of my knowledge. A 11KG Alugas cylinder has a tare weight of 6.7KGs. I said you could save about 6 KGs per cylinder by using Alugas, was I wrong?

 

D.

 

"A mite pessimistic", dear boy!

 

The tare-weight of a Calor 13kg propane cylinder according to the Caravan Club is 15.7kg. Cylinder tare-weights do vary a bit, but the CC's datum seems about right to me and near-enough tallies with the Imperial weight shown on the 'neck-collar' of the 13kg Calor bottle languishing in my garden shed.

 

If an Alugas bottle's tare-weight is 6.7kg nowadays (though it still says 6.3kg on the Autogas website), that's a weight saving of 9kg over the Calor canister. The Alugas cylinder holds roughly 11kg of LPG, rather than 13kg, so that's another 2kg reduction, making an overall Alugas-versus-Calor saving of 11kg per full bottle.

 

What I was attempting to highlight was that a really significant weight-saving could be made by moving from a 2 x 13kg Calor-bottle system to one comprising a single 11kg refillable Alugas container. A 6kg-per-bottle saving does not sound much, an 11kg-per-bottle saving sounds a lot better, but being able to 'save' 40kg must surely be an attractive proposition for anyone desperate to put their motorhome on a diet.

 

(As I knew you were an agent for Alugas cylinders, I thought you'd be pleased. :$ :$)

 

Ah that clarifies things a tad, and I wasn't displeased at all Derek. My 13KG figure for a 13KG calor cylinder's tare weight came from their own website which quotes a 13KG cylinders total weight at 26.5KGs, assuming 13KGs to be the capacity gave me the tare figure of around 13 KGs. the 6.7 KGs figure for the Alugas cylinder is my mistake :$ .

 

I did say that I agreed with your figures, I just didn't quite see the "pessimistic" reference, even if you did say a "mite pessimistic", I certainly wasn't offended anyway. :D

 

D.

[lennyhb]

JudgeMental - 2010-11-13 3:54 PM

 

 

as for alloy wheels (from other thread) these can be heavier then steel wheels?

 

 

Often the case with cars where where the alloys are ofter larger with wider tyres.

On the X250 with 15" rims you save about 15kg I must admit 900€ to give me 15kg was a bit pricey but it looks cool.

 

 

[Derek Uzzell]

Keithl - 2010-11-15 6:54 PM

 

Derek Uzzell - 2010-11-15 6:17 PM

What I was attempting to highlight was that a really significant weight-saving could be made by moving from a 2 x 13kg Calor-bottle system to one comprising a single 11kg refillable Alugas container. A 6kg-per-bottle saving does not sound much, an 11kg-per-bottle saving sounds a lot better, but being able to 'save' 40kg must surely be an attractive proposition for anyone desperate to put their motorhome on a diet.

 

Or a cheaper way to save approx 30 kg would be to switch to 2 x 6 kg Calor Propane cylinders.

 

According to Derek's weights above 2 x 13 kg full Propane cylinders weigh near 58 kg and 2 x 6 kg only weigh 28 kg. Therefore a 30 kg saving for very little expense. If you ask a Calor dealer they may swap cylinder sizes for no charge, if not try another one!

 

Keith.

 

This is undoubtedly true and - if one chose 6kg-capacity Calorlite cylinders - the weight of two full bottles would be even less at around 21kg. However, you've now got only 24 litres of gas on board compared to the 52 litres contained in a pair of 13kg Calor canisters. Overlooking the fact that Calor currently prohibits (in principle at least) 'free' swapping of 13kg bottles for 6kg ones, the 54% reduction in literage could be very inhibiting, particularly if Phil planned to tour abroad.

 

Using UK exchange-only gas bottles that are small-capacity and/or lightweight (Calorlite, BP Gas Light) will obviously save weight, but the latter may be difficult to source and the time interval between 'bottle swaps' will be shortened, while the price-per-litre of gas for a 6kg bottle is almost twice that for a 13kg cylinder.

 

The big trouble may come when one goes abroad as, while it's possible to envisage a fairly long trip outside the UK with 52 litres of gas (2 x 13kg bottles) available, this may be much trickier with just 24 litres and no opportunity to obtain more. Once you've got the Alugas bottle installed, you now have a refillable gas system that will never weigh more than 18kg (bottle + LPG + bits), irrespective of whether the motorhome is in the UK or not.

 

A reasonably-sized lightweight refillable bottle, like an Alugas 11kg, side-steps the 'while abroad' potential limitation and, although its installation is likely to cost around £300 (Dave Newell will be able to confirm the going-rate), the lower price of autogas compared to bottled-gas should allow that cost to be recouped after, say, thirty 13kg-bottle 'exchanges' (and much more quickly if 6kg exchange-only bottles were involved).

 

The challenge (as I see it) in Phil's case is to reduce his Apache's weight down to its current 3500kg MAM limit, but still allow the motorhome to be 'usable'. Also, to minimise the cost of the weight-reduction exercise.

 

If sufficient weight can be lost by lightening the gas installation, fitting lightweight wheels, etc. but the cost of doing so is significantly above the cost of the chassis MAM upgrade and (as seems probable) other overload countermeasures (eg. running with near-empty water reservoirs) would still be required, then the MAM upgrade would be the best way forward.

 

If you dare not drive a motorhome without first ensuring there's no fresh- or waste-water in the tanks and that you've emptied the toilet-cassette, or feel a desperate need to audit how many pairs of shoes your wife has chosen to take on holiday, then motorcaravanning is unlikely to be the barrel of laughs you originally anticipated.

 

 

[Derek Uzzell]

david lloyd - 2010-11-15 6:42 PM

 

Dave Newell - 2010-11-13 6:06 PM

 

An underslung bulk tank is likely to be heavier than your existing one or two bottles. A typical size for underslung tanks is 60 litres and trust me a 60 litre steel tank is a heavy lump!

 

As the judge says Alugas cylinders will help by saving you around 6KGs each.

 

D.

 

Sorry Dave - have to disagree with you here.

 

Just collected out new IH Tio with a Stako underslung tank which has a capacity of 20 litres. Not sure of the weight but it measures 200mm diameter by 717 mm long. This should be considerably lighter than a 60 litre tank.

 

David

 

CAK Tanks quotes an empty weight of 32kg for a 60litre-capacity LPG tank, while I believe an empty 20litre STAKO tank weighs about 13kg (pretty much what you'd expect). In both instances, of course, you'd need to add on the weight of the mounting kit.

 

There's no doubt that a 20litre STAKO-tank gas installation will be heavier than one based round an 11kg (22litre) Alugas bottle. I'm confident that the cost of any underfloor tank professionally retro-fitted will be significantly more expensive than that of a retro-fitted single-bottle Alugas set-up.

[bromleyxphil]

Thanks to all concerned for some fantastic info and debate on both of my posts about my overweight van.

As I have said I love the van and the lyfestyle, I streched to buy the van and have looked how much it would cost to trade in against something with a greater payload that I like as much ... 12 to 15 K...not a goer.

I agree I should have done more research and been given better advice when I bought it but I am now where I am.

I do like going away with the wife!! and as I can drive a heavy vehicle for another 21 years I am going to go ahead with the following mods and should be legal.

Air Assist...Dunlop version ...about £370 if I fit

Michelin Agilis Camping 225/70R15 112Q on the rear...about £290

Re Plate via SV Tech (particular thanks to Steve at SV who has put up with a number of "what if" phone calls from me ...£240

No alloys as a cost / benefit on them isn't worth it.

So £900 lighter but marital harmony restored and I should be a happy legal camper 3850 overall and 2240 on the rear axle.

Back to gas the van came with 2 X 6 Kg calor bottles I have been putting up with the expense and on our trip to France last easter we ran out.

The locker is 590mm wide 325mm deep and 640 high I am going to go for a fixed gas solution. I have been doing a little research "lesson learned" and can find Alugas and Gaslow

Are they the same product with a different name tag?

Would I get in 2X11Kg bottles using the 325 depth?

Can I fit these myself or do I have to go to a dealer?

I put myself again in the hands of you more knowledgable folks

Phil

[Derek Uzzell]

bromleyxphil - 2010-11-16 11:11 AM

 

....Alugas and Gaslow

 

Are they the same product with a different name tag?

 

Would I get in 2X11Kg bottles using the 325 depth?

 

Can I fit these myself or do I have to go to a dealer?

 

 

 

The “Alugas” and “Gaslow” products are not the same. The former bottles are made from aluminium and the latter from steel. See the following for more info:

 

http://www.autogas.co.uk/alugas-cylinders.htm

 

http://www.gaslow.co.uk/pdf/Gaslow-2009-brochure.pdf

 

Alugas and Gaslow bottles are available in 11kg or 6kg capacity and the quoted height/diameter dimensions are:

 

Alugas 11kg – 600mm(H) x 300mm(D)

 

Alugas 6kg – 405mm(H) x 300mm(D)

 

Gaslow 11kg – 580mm(H) x 304mm(D)

 

Gaslow 6kg – 492mm(H) x 246mm(D)

 

Assuming those data are correct, you would NOT be able to fit a pair of Alugas bottles (11kg nor 6kg) in your Apache’s gas-locker because 2 x 300mm(Diameter) = 600mm and your motorhome’s locker is only 590mm wide.

 

A pair of 2 x 11kg Gaslow bottles would also NOT fit (for the same 590mm locker-width reason), but you would be able to install an 11kg Gaslow bottle + a 6kg one.

 

I’d find it very difficult to justify the extra expense of a two-bottle refillable system. Why not have one 11kg refillable-bottle with a 6kg Calor as back-up?

 

If you are sufficiently confident in your DIY abilities to fit the air-assist units, then I don’t see why you shouldn’t be able to install a refillable-bottle system successfully. You might want to get a gas professional to give your work the once-over, but it’s hardly rocket science as long as one is careful and always keeps in mind the risks inherent with working with gas.

 

[rupert123]

Phil go for the two bottle re-fillable system. never mind justifying the expense, you have spent a bit already, the peace of mind is worth it. We have had a two bottle Gaslow system with an auto changeover valve for some three years now and it has not given a moments trouble. We can buy gas all over europe with the aid of three simple screw in adaptors. When one bottle runs out, during the summer, we have, at least, a couple of weeks to find a petrol station that sells LPG. Have, in fact, never had to look for one, after we run out on one cylinder just wait until we need diesel over next two weeks always come across a garage that sells both.

[Brian Kirby]

bromleyxphil - 2010-11-16 11:11 AM Thanks to all concerned for some fantastic info and debate on both of my posts about my overweight van. As I have said I love the van and the lyfestyle, I streched to buy the van and have looked how much it would cost to trade in against something with a greater payload that I like as much ... 12 to 15 K...not a goer. I agree I should have done more research and been given better advice when I bought it but I am now where I am. I do like going away with the wife!! and as I can drive a heavy vehicle for another 21 years I am going to go ahead with the following mods and should be legal. Air Assist...Dunlop version ...about £370 if I fit Michelin Agilis Camping 225/70R15 112Q on the rear...about £290 Re Plate via SV Tech (particular thanks to Steve at SV who has put up with a number of "what if" phone calls from me ...£240 No alloys as a cost / benefit on them isn't worth it. So £900 lighter but marital harmony restored and I should be a happy legal camper 3850 overall and 2240 on the rear axle. Back to gas the van came with 2 X 6 Kg calor bottles I have been putting up with the expense and on our trip to France last easter we ran out. The locker is 590mm wide 325mm deep and 640 high I am going to go for a fixed gas solution. I have been doing a little research "lesson learned" and can find Alugas and Gaslow Are they the same product with a different name tag? Would I get in 2X11Kg bottles using the 325 depth? Can I fit these myself or do I have to go to a dealer? I put myself again in the hands of you more knowledgable folks Phil

Before doing this, Phil, have you followed the advice I gave Robert ("bobalobs") in your other post, and checked the individual axle loads, fully laden, on a weighbridge?  What you propose won't increase the permissible load on the front axle, only the rear axle.  You should gain 240kg on the rear axle, but may not be able to use all that within your new MAM of 3,850, either because some of your payload will fall onto the front axle and may overload that, or because the rear axle will still be overloaded even with a 2,240kg limit.

Your van has a long rear overhang, so all weights placed behind the rear axle remove load from the front axle, but transfer the removed load back onto the rear axle.  Similarly, any load removed from behind the rear axle will remove more load than its self-weight from that axle, but will transfer the difference back onto the front axle.  In effect, your van (like ours! :-)) will behave like a see-saw over its rear axle.  So, for example, 100kg added at the rear might deduct 20kg from the front axle, but would result in 120kg falling onto the rear axle, and vice versa. This makes any assumptions about the individual axle loads unreliable, and especially so because things get moved around in the van as you use it.  Waste water tanks are frequently rear mounted, so any water in the waste tank will transfer more than its self-weight onto the rear axle.  Generally, that waste will have come from the fresh water tank, so the one (probably behind the rear axle) gets heavier, while the other (probably between the axles) gets lighter.  So, if 10 litres of water gets pumped from fresh to waste, you may initially remove 5kg from each axle, but add back 15kg to the rear axle: 10kg net gain.  The same becomes true, to varying degrees, for all consumables. 

All vehicles are subject to this phenomenon, which is why the sum of the two axle maxima invariably exceeds the MAM.  In present trim you have 1,850kg + 2000kg = 3,850kg and an MAM of 3,500kg: a margin of 350kg.  With the uprated rear axle you would have 1,850 + 2,240kg = 4,090kg and an MAM of 3,850kg: a reduced margin of 240kg.  Whether that is sufficient in practise to give you the payload capacity you need, will depend on whether, and to what extent, the rear axle may be overloaded in full touring trim at present.  What I am saying is that it it perfectly possible to be within the MAM, but still have one axle (usually the rear) substantially overloaded.  At your enhanced MAM, if the rear axle is at it maximum new (legal) load limit of 2,240kg, the rear tyres will also be on their load limits, so you will have no "comfort zone" should you inadvertently overload.  I therefore think it would be wise to make sure, by checking the fully laden axle loads as above, before you start spending.  It would be extremely annoying to spend the money, and find the benefit is not as expected.

I'm a little puzzled about these air units.  Have SV Tech agreed that if you DIY fit the Dunlop units, and fit the larger tyres, they will still re-plate the van to 3,850kg (presumably subject to inspection), or is that MAM conditional on them fitting VB Air units themselves?  I have Firestone Driverite air assisters on the rear axle of ours, not for overload, but to obviate grounding due to a long overhang.  Firestone state: "This kit is not designed to increase the GVW of your vehicle."  That suggests to me that other kits may, and that whatever kit you fit should be stated, and I think should ideally have been tested, as suitable to increase the rear axle load of a Ducato from 2,000kg to 2,240kg.  If that is not stated, then SV Tech should certify that the work is satisfactory, and confirm their satisfaction, as engineers, with the modification.  I think this would be required by your insurer, who may require to see the written evidence the work has been properly "signed off".  I would also, therefore, if you have not already done this, seek their reaction to what you propose.

Going back some way, you asked how long the dealer's legal liability for what he sells might last.  The answer is six years, but the extent of his liability tends to reduce over time, depending on the matter under consideration.  Your window for recording your dissatisfaction with your van, to the best of my understanding, commences when you find out there is a defect.  What you have (in my understanding) is a patent defect, in that it is readily enough apparent via a weighbridge, but which would not be apparent to a layman.  The first question, therefore, is could you reasonably have been expected to have spotted the defect at an earlier date?  Personally, I do not think you could have.  The second question, following from that, is what have you done to draw this defect to the attention of the dealer, and have you advised him that you hold him liable?  Thereafter, it is a matter for negotiation, or, if you have exhausted all other channels and cannot make the van work to your satisfaction, court action.  Obviously, this is not something to contemplate lightly, and I am not proposing it as a remedy.  However, you will greatly reduce you chances of success in any action you may bring against the dealer, if you carry out the modifications without his knowledge or agreement, and then find they do not work, leaving you with an altered, but still unsatisfactory, van.  My final suggestion, therefore, would be to go to your Trading Standards Office before you do anything else, seek their advice on where you stand legally vis a vis the present state of the van, your proposed interventions to remedy the defect, and whether there is anything you should do immediately (for example writing to the dealer), to ensure you have at least some legal leverage in the event things do not work out as expected.

[Mel B]

Refillable gas bottles - we have the Gaslow version. We originally had it in our Rimor (11kg bottle, filler etc) and a small Calor bottle as a back up (we already had it). I re-fitted the Gaslow system to our current van when we changed earlier this year. It was a good thing that we only went the one bottle as our current van's gas locker only takes one bottle. We find that we can get a 3 week holiday (summer) out of it without a problem and as it's got a gauge we just keep an eye on that (checking every other day), and once it gets low we fill it, or, if we are at a garage which sells the gas anyway, we'll just keep it topped up anyway.

 

Not had a problem at all with only having one bottle and I certainly wouldn't got to the expense of a second Gaslow bottle, even if we could fit one in, just for the sake of it - somehow it just defeats the object to me. :-S

[bromleyxphil]

Brian thanks for a comprehensive reply with lots of great info. I have had the van to the weighbridge as I said fully laden with all of our junk but not the wife " not saying I class her as junk!!" The cost is £7.05 per weight so I had the full van at 3600 with me in the drivers seat. The rear axle was 2040 so I hope the front would be 1560. The wife is 55 on a bad day so after the upgrade I hope to have 235 on the front and 250 on the rear to play with. Does my maths and engineering theory - elementary level both pass muster?

Phil

[Guest JudgeMental]

clear the van out and go again with the wife. empty waste/30 litres of fresh enough for travelling

 

then see what kind of capacity you have spare and load accordingly and revisit

 

I went for puncture seal and left the spare wheel behind, lightweight gas tanks for sure but wait and see before spending out on expensive alloys etc.....

 

for a summer trip if we are going for a month or a week we pack the same amount of clothes? micro fibre towels etc..... you have to think about it carefully. If I left them, the wife and daughter would have a 30kg suitcase full of toiletries, I keep on telling them we can buy stuff as we go along? *-)

 

most decent weigh bridge only charge if you need a ticket?

[Brian Kirby]

bromleyxphil - 2010-11-17 5:47 PM Brian thanks for a comprehensive reply with lots of great info. I have had the van to the weighbridge as I said fully laden with all of our junk but not the wife " not saying I class her as junk!!" The cost is £7.05 per weight so I had the full van at 3600 with me in the drivers seat. The rear axle was 2040 so I hope the front would be 1560. The wife is 55 on a bad day so after the upgrade I hope to have 235 on the front and 250 on the rear to play with. Does my maths and engineering theory - elementary level both pass muster? Phil

I agree you should be OK post mods.  It really depends on what you want to achieve.  The starting point for weighing the van should be with the fresh water tank full, the fuel tank full, all essential tools on board, and a full gas cylinder.  (Strictly the fuel tank and gas cylinder to be 90% full, but how to tell?)  What you take in addition, will presumably depend on what kind of trip you envisage. 

For example, we tend to make trips around Europe of between 8 and 12 weeks duration, spring and autumn.  We therefore take spare clothing, and bedding, to accommodate seasonal and climatic changes.  Our van (3,500kg MAM) weighs 2,790kg unladen, and 3,215kg fully laden, so we add 425kg, and travel with 285kg spare.  However, due to the rear overhang, the rear axle goes from 1,500kg unladen, to about 2,100kg laden, while the front varies only between 1,290kg laden and 1,330kg unladen (yes, it is the right way round, the front gets lighter as the load increases!).  That is all fine, as we are well below both axle limits, and the MAM.

So, you will have less tolerance than we have, and I don't know whether there are things you might wish to add to your van load if you were travelling long term, or maybe just long distances abroad, or what you might want to bring back from such a trip :-D.  So, as above, you should be OK, but without knowing all the circumstances, it is not possible to be certain.

If literally all that was missing from the van was your wife, weight saving would be far more economical.  Do you camp off sites much?  If not, removing one of the three habitation batteries would save a slab of weight.  Fitting a single aly gas cylinder quite a chunk more.  Reducing the amount of water you carry reduces weight at 1kg/litre.  Selecting cookware, crockery, and cutlery, for light weight, a bit more.  Tables/chairs for use outside ditto.  Nip and tuck, you could shave away the excess, and should get to both the MAM and the rear axle limit, albeit you may have to redistribute some load to the front to perfect it.  However, you would end up within a bit of a straight jacket imposed by the weighbridge.

It is now winter, when most folk reduce their outings.  Have you been back to the dealer who sold the van, and tackled him over its deficiency?  I know you say you like it, but you'll have to spend a lot to make it work, and it will still be running beyond its design parameters (though within the law) even after your proposed mods.  Personally, I feel he has served you badly, and should make at least some contribution to the cost of remedying what he sold, or should do you a spectacularly good deal - within a margin of about £3,000 - against another van that will work as you want without all the grief.  Whatever you decide, I hope the result is satisfactory, and that you continue to enjoy your van.

[Guest JudgeMental]

why weigh with full water tank when you are more or less on limit, fuel/gas for sure but WATER! I vehemently disagree sir! dddddd....dam your eyes! :D

[lennyhb]

I always run on or just over the limit M'lord I prefer ½ tank of fuel and at least 75% water as I can nearly always find a garage and ½ tank gives me at least 250 miles but I never know when I can get drinking water. Been caught out a couple of times with low water dammed expensive buying bottled mineral water for a shower.

 

 

[david lloyd]

JudgeMental - 2010-11-17 7:25 PM

 

why weigh with full water tank when you are more or less on limit, fuel/gas for sure but WATER! I vehemently disagree sir! dddddd....dam your eyes! :D

 

I think Brian is making the point that if you weigh it to the maximum (including full water tank) and find that you are overweight then you can start to decide what is disposable - such as water at 1kg per litre.

 

In other words, start at the optimum capacity then work down from there if you have to.

 

David