Age of tyres

[cyclops2]

Bought a 1998 Duetto from Perthshire Caravans mid august this year. Everything fine and happy with it except for the tyres. | was reading that M/H tyres due to their lack of usage should be changed every five years. I contacted my salesman who put me on to an engineer who took offence when I suggested the tyres were out of date. Since then I have seen that the caravan club says that tyres should be changed at 5 years and definitely by 7 years. Of the 5 with my van, 1 is 13years old, 2 are 10 years old and I have a 6 and a 4. I have 3 different manufacturers 3 different loadings and 3 different speed ratings. I have contacted the dealers and asked them to pay half of the replacement tyres, no reply yet, surprise surprise. Question should they help me out with new tyres or should I have gone down on my knees and checked the age of all tyres before I bought?

[Derek Uzzell]

The following is a summary of the UK MOT-test's requirements in respect of a vehicle's tyres:-

 

"TYRE CONDITION

 

A failure with respect to tyre wear will result where:-

 

The grooves of the tread pattern are not at least 1.6mm throughout a continuous band comprising:

 

• Central 3/4 of the breadth of tread

• Entire outer circumference of the tyre.

 

Tyres must be correctly matched with regard to:

 

• Type

• Size

• Structure

• Location on the vehicle with respect to the axles.

 

Also examined:

• General condition of tyre

• Condition of valve

 

Tyres fail if they have serious cuts, bulges or other damage. The wear on the tyre is checked with a tyre tread depth gauge to ensure compliance. The tyres are examined to ensure that there is no fouling with any part of the vehicle."

 

 

You will note that the 'AGE' of a tyre is not mentioned - as long as a tyre is capable of passing the MOT-test it can be 10, 20, 30 (you name it) years old and will still be considered road legal.

 

I suspect that few informed motorcaravanners would want to have tyres on their vehicle that were beyond 10 years old, even if the tyres appeared to be in excellent condition. Most people will change their tyres well before that, some as early as 5 years, but there is absolutely no legal obligation to change a tyre just because it has reached a particular age.

 

Assuming that all your Duetto's tyres meet the 'correctly matching' criteria I gave above - in essence, that they are all radial construction and of a suitable size and load-carrying capacity for the vehicle - then that's basically it. You could have 5 tyres, each from a different manufacturer and, as long as they were all the same size (which, presumably your Duetto's are) and suitable for supporting the vehicle's maximum axle-load limits, that should be legally OK.

 

It's not unusual for same size tyres to have different Load Indexes and/or Speed Ratings: in fact it may be difficult to avoid this when replacing tyres as the manufacturers are constantly revising their ranges. For example, Michelin alone used to offer 225/70 R15C tyres in 109R, 112R or 112Q variants. Personally, I would not want to mix tyres with different Load Indexes on the same axle (because it complicates the choice of inflation pressures), but I'm not sure if there's any regulation to prohibit this.

 

Unfortunately, this means that the answer to your question

 

"...should I have gone down on my knees and checked the age of all tyres before I bought?"

 

is Yes. (Though that shouldn't stop you trying your hardest to obtain a contribution from the dealership towards replacements for at least the three oldest tyres.)

[lennyhb]

At that age the tyres are an accident waiting to happen most tyre manufactures state tyres should be disposed of 7 years after date of manufacture even if they have not been used.

 

In my early & inexperienced days of caravanning I had a side wall blow out on a Belgium Autoroute and it caused considerable damage to the caravan, the tyre in question was about 6 years old.

 

I would have thought to sell a vehicle with tyres of that age would be classed as selling an un-roadworthy vehicle & would think you are within your rites to expect the dealer to cover the full cost of replacements.

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

I assume the van must have a current MoT test certificate?  If so, it will have met the necessary legal requirements (at least so far as MoT requirements go) at point of sale, and all you have lost is an opportunity to haggle the price down. 

I can offer two suggestions.  1.  Take it to a reputable tyre dealer, ask them what they think of the tyres, and see what they say.  The 6 and the 4 should be fine, assuming they are of correct specification.  The two 10s are borderline, and the 13 is beyond its sell by date.  Any could have defects on the inner facing walls, and the cracking within the tread area is difficult to see with the van standing on the ground.  However, it is quite possible they are all technically sound.

2.  If you still distrust what you are being told, see if you can take the van to an MoT test station and get a tester to look at the tyres with his "testers head" on.  I expect you'll have to pay for the time, but that should dispel any doubts as to whether the tyre dealer's advice is reliable.

I think you probably need 3 new tyres now, with another next year.  Simplest, though not cheapest (and assuming it is good and the correct type), is put the 4 year old in as the spare, and get 4 new tyres fitted at the best price you can find.  You should be able to get a good discount for four, so just shop around.  Check on the web, because ATS (or possibly one or more of the other nationals), has vans fitted out to do the job at your home, including balancing gear, and I seem to remember discounts for using that service.

[Big Momma]

When I bought my very first van many years ago it was just 5 years old and the tyres looked good, plenty of tread etc. There was a full MOT certificate with the van. On my very first trip out on my way up the A1 to Scotland I had a rear tyre blow out. I managed to get on to the hard shoulder but most of the tyre remained in the carriageway. When the AA arrived to assist me in putting on the spare, because the jack they provided with the van was worse than useless, he checked all of the tyres, including the spare and found them all to be defective as they were all cracked on the inside walls. Fortunately he escorted me to a nearby town and tyre place where I shelled out for 5 new tyres !! They may look legal but if vehicles are stood for a long time, with the weight and the reaction from the sunshine,it is the inside walls that perish. My advice, it is your life, if in doubt change the tyres and have peace of mind.

[Guest pelmetman]

I have recentlty changed my tyres, mostly due to what I have read on here :$

 

They where 10+ years old but no sign of cracking etc, and I changed them for the identical tyre,.....................but I have noticed a difference in the ride they are more supple, which I have put down to the rubber being new and I now think the rubber over time stiffens up so this affects the ride, whether it affects the safety of the tyre, I've no idea.

 

But if I were you I would change them all as its the only bit that keeps you in contact with planet Earth (lol)

[cyclops2]

Thanks to all for your advice. Will definitely get them replaced. One further question, Would the insurance be invalidated in event of an accident??

Pete

 

[Brambles]

http://money.uk.msn.com/news/money-news/articles.aspx?cp-documentid=154673145

 

you might finf this artical interesting, mentions OFT has compiled a check list . But the bit I picked up on was dealers must sell cars that are of reasonable quality taking into account thier age and mileage.

So the question is, was your M'home of reasonable quality for its age? Well 5 year old tyres could well be, but 13 years old...I do not think so. How can they be of any quality when passed the age tyre manufacturers say they should be changed. Most say they should be check periodically from 5 years old and be changed at 10 years old irrespective of the condition.

 

So a search online for the OFT document is required I think.

 

[Brambles]

http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/before_you_buy/thinking_about/cars/dealer#named2

[Rayjsj]

I recently bought a 5 year old van, which had Michelin XC camping tyres fitted all round, with plenty of tread, more than 8mm (only 13,000 miles). When I had got it home and all the 'Shiny' black tyre wall paint had worn off I was able to see that although only 5 years old these tyres were cracked all over the walls, I went to a local tyre dealer (whom I trust to be reasonably honest) and his opinion was that they had been 'sat in the Sun' for most of their life, and were now 'An accident waiting to happen' (where have i heard that before ??). Needless to say i now have 4 new Continental Vanco Camping tyres on the van , not cheap, but hopefully last longer than the Michelins. Ray :-(

[Colin Leake]

Just a couple of tips from someone who knows about tyres and compounds from past racing days.

 

Firstly keep direct sunlight off the tyres as far as possible.

 

Secondly take the vehicle out for a run at least once a month. If left standing the various additives and lubricants in the rubber tend to migrate away from the surface leaving it dry and vulnerable to cracking. Taking the vehicle for a run of say 20 or so miles will help to prevent this by redistributing said additives and considerably extend the life of the tyres.

 

Some time ago when we used to use a caravan we had new Dunlop tyres fitted and one failed on the M6 at night. Fortunately the safety band we had fitted worked as they were supposed to and an accident was avoided. Subsequent investigation of the date marks on the tyres revealed that although the fitter had them fresh in from the distributor they were over 6 years old. The matter was settled to our satisfaction but now I always check the date on new tyres.

[nuevoboy]

Rayjsj - 2010-11-15 3:06 PM

 

I recently bought a 5 year old van, which had Michelin XC camping tyres fitted all round, with plenty of tread, more than 8mm (only 13,000 miles). When I had got it home and all the 'Shiny' black tyre wall paint had worn off I was able to see that although only 5 years old these tyres were cracked all over the walls, I went to a local tyre dealer (whom I trust to be reasonably honest) and his opinion was that they had been 'sat in the Sun' for most of their life, and were now 'An accident waiting to happen' (where have i heard that before ??). Needless to say i now have 4 new Continental Vanco Camping tyres on the van , not cheap, but hopefully last longer than the Michelins. Ray :-(

 

Similarly, we have just bought a 5 year old van.

However, after reading some horror stories concerning failing tyres on the forums, I got down on my hands and knees after the handover and inspected the tyres. I could see that underneath the "shiny black tyre wall paint" that the tyres were cracking. After a quick word with the dealer, (and a mention of the forum topics) he told me to get a new set of tyres and send him the bill.

This morning, I duly did that, full set (of 5) Conti Vanco Camping.

Invoice just posted off.

 

Incidentally, I had the 'van weighed t'other week and got accurate axle weights. Contacted Conti and they emailed back within an hour, giving appropriate pressures for new tyres. Now down to 45 psi instead of the 72.5 I was running around on, on the Michelin Xc's.

 

Good service all round.

[clay]

bought my bessicar 765 3 weeks ago, she is 8 years old and done 17k. checked her through, good tread on michelin camper tyres. when i got her on the drive i looked closer and noticed splits in the side walls of 3 tyres exactly as if they had been cut with a stanley knife. now this van came with a new mot. i took her back to the dealer who said that they do not look that closely at tyres as they rely on the tester who is a main dealer. he took the van back to the mot centre and they said that although the splits were there they thought them good to use. they also believed the tyres to be originals and had stood around for long periods of time. to have piece of mind the dealer straight away changed the offending tyres and with apologies said that he would double check all tyres on his vans in future

[Big Momma]

I would certainly have doubts about the credentials of the MOT tester *-) At least your dealer did the honourable thing :-D

[Stuart]

You may like to consider having your new tyres filled with nitrogen. This is deemed to reduce pressure loss AND prolong tyre life, I paid abou £1.50 per wheel for this, mine are now six years old and just had a critical examination and told to check again in six months.

RWD Merc 316cdi.

 

Stuart

[cyclops2]

Thanks for all your thoughts and advice. Will replace all tyres before next trip. Does not look as if there will be any help from dealer. Moral of the story is if you buy from Perthshire Caravans check age of tyres before deal is done

Pete

 

[lennyhb]

I would have a word with your local Citizens Advice Centre or even Trading Standards as with tyres of that age they selling an un-roadworthy vehicle.

 

 

[Dave Newell]

Big Momma - 2010-11-17 9:09 PM

 

I would certainly have doubts about the credentials of the MOT tester *-) At least your dealer did the honourable thing :-D

 

The MOT tester is correct I'm afraid. I recently queried my local tester over exactly this issue, he had passed a van for us and when I looked all six tyres (tag axle) were showing cracking. He showed me the testers guide book which clearly states that cracks are not an issue unless the cord reinforcing is showing. Personally I disagree with this but that is the standard for MOT tests.

 

D.

[paulmold]

lennyhb - 2010-11-18 2:16 PM

 

I would have a word with your local Citizens Advice Centre or even Trading Standards as with tyres of that age they selling an un-roadworthy vehicle.

 

 

There is nothing unroadworthy about the tyres, if they pass an MOT test how can they be called unroadworthy.I am sure the Citizens Advice or trading standards will say the same. Remember an MOT only states that it was roadworthy at the time of the test, it could fail the next day!

I had a puncture early this summer and as about to go on holiday I went down to my local tyre dealer to buy a replacement. None of the right size in stock but he did have a part-worn I could have. I thought it will do for the spare so had it fitted. When I got home I checked the date on it - it was 15 years old, tread near perfect , and that was from a tyre dealer.

[paulmold]

lennyhb - 2010-11-18 2:16 PM

 

I would have a word with your local Citizens Advice Centre or even Trading Standards as with tyres of that age they selling an un-roadworthy vehicle.

 

 

There is nothing unroadworthy about the tyres, if they pass an MOT test how can they be called unroadworthy.I am sure the Citizens Advice or trading standards will say the same. Remember an MOT only states that it was roadworthy at the time of the test, it could fail the next day!

I had a puncture early this summer and as about to go on holiday I went down to my local tyre dealer to buy a replacement. None of the right size in stock but he did have a part-worn I could have. I thought it will do for the spare so had it fitted. When I got home I checked the date on it - it was 15 years old, tread near perfect , and that was from a tyre dealer.

[paulmold]

lennyhb - 2010-11-18 2:16 PM

 

I would have a word with your local Citizens Advice Centre or even Trading Standards as with tyres of that age they selling an un-roadworthy vehicle.

 

 

There is nothing unroadworthy about the tyres, if they pass an MOT test how can they be called unroadworthy.I am sure the Citizens Advice or trading standards will say the same. Remember an MOT only states that it was roadworthy at the time of the test, it could fail the next day!

I had a puncture early this summer and as about to go on holiday I went down to my local tyre dealer to buy a replacement. None of the right size in stock but he did have a part-worn I could have. I thought it will do for the spare so had it fitted. When I got home I checked the date on it - it was 15 years old, tread near perfect , and that was from a tyre dealer.

[lennyhb]

You don't arf like to make your point Paul. (lol) (lol) (lol)

[Guest pelmetman]

It does not surprise me to hear you were sold a 15 year old tyre, as when I had my 10+ year old tyres replaced, which were visually in good knick and with plenty of tread.

 

I overheard one of the fitters ask another if they are scrap, he said no 8-)

[Derek Uzzell]

One of my Golf GTIs had a puncture the day before we were due to go abroad. The tyre (non-directional but VR-rated) was unrepairable and the car had only a 'skinny' spare wheel. A local tyre supplier confirmed they had a suitable replacement tyre in stock and I took the wheel to them for it to be fitted. They said "Come back in an hour" and, when I did, I found they'd fitted a directional and very expensive Goodyear Eagle. I was not a happy bunny but it was partly my own fault for not asking the right questions. I subsequently moved that tyre to a cheap steel wheel and kept it in the car as a spare. When the car was sold I removed the Goodyear-equipped spare wheel and I've still got it in my garage. Both wheel and tyre are like new, but both are over 20 years old. The tyre shows no sign of degradation and doesn't lose air. I've tried to give the wheel/tyre away, but nobody wants it.

[Big Momma]

Dave Newell - 2010-11-18 6:07 PM

 

Big Momma - 2010-11-17 9:09 PM

 

I would certainly have doubts about the credentials of the MOT tester *-) At least your dealer did the honourable thing :-D

 

The MOT tester is correct I'm afraid. I recently queried my local tester over exactly this issue, he had passed a van for us and when I looked all six tyres (tag axle) were showing cracking. He showed me the testers guide book which clearly states that cracks are not an issue unless the cord reinforcing is showing. Personally I disagree with this but that is the standard for MOT tests.

 

D.

 

But you would have thought that on the test report they would have mentioned the cracks. When I had my previous van MOT'd one of the orange marker lights was not working, it did not fail the test as it was not considered as one of the 'road lights', but he did mention it on the test report. This report is a standard piece of paperwork so not asking them to do anything additional but it wouldn't half be useful to know that perhaps you may want to keep an eye on something as it may fail before the next MOT is due. I would consider that condition of tyres could be considered a major safety factor 'life or death scenario' *-)