Sat Navs yet Again

[alistair]

For each of the last four northern summers, we have toured UK & Europe for three months in our middle-aged Auto-Sleeper Duetto. For the first time, our 2010 travels were made with the assistance of a Sat Nav. Friends loaned us their Navman S80, complete with two-year-old maps. We decided that our rather unplanned way of travelling meant that printed maps generally suited us best. A Sat Nav is only of use if you actually set out with some idea of where you want to go. We usually have only a vague notion, and frequently divert to places we discover on the way. But, there were times when we were in cities or when we wanted only to get from a specific A to a specific B that we found the woman in the box invaluable. So, we'll be checking out the market soon and will buy one.

 

A couple of things annoyed me with the NavMan S80. The first was that I didn't ever find a way to enter destinations by coordinates. We had only the basic instruction book for it, not the full manual, so perhaps there is a way. This limitation was sometimes frustrating when we were looking for camping grounds for which we had coordinates and very little other information.

 

Question: Do more modern Sat Navs have the ability to enter destinations in latitude and longitude format?

 

The second irritation was that I found it difficult to preview in a useful way the route the gizmo proposed sending us along. I could scroll through the step-by-step instructions, but that was slow and told me very little. If I viewed the route on the map at a useful scale, it was very difficult to move from one section to the next, and if it was at a scale that showed me much of the route, the scale of the map gave no detail.

 

Question: Is it generally easy to preview the proposed route on a modern Sat Nav?

 

A final thought: Map updates seem to be very expensive. Is there any way around that?

 

I haven't looked at options yet, but first impressions are that TomToms are too fat to be carried in a pocket, and Garmin seem to be the slimmest. That's the extent of my research so far. I should probably consider other criteria as well!

 

All comments gratefully received.

 

Alistair

[Guest JudgeMental]

Garmin offer quarterly map updates for life of unit for £79.99

 

You can plan your trip or what have you on PC or unit and input by post code, address and coordinates

 

use this sites "search" function for a load of stuff on sat navs or better still dedicated GPS forums like

 

http://www.pocketgpsworld.com/

[Tony Jones]

Hi Alistair

 

My TomTom accepts co-ordinates, either as deg/min/sec and decimals of sec, or as deg/min and decimals of min.

 

I've not found a better way to preview the route though. Same options - list of instructions (which at least show the road numbers clearly enough to follow on a map) or a map which is tricky to navigate when zoomed in. But maybe when "Way2Go," our resident TT expert, next logs in he'll tell us a better way!

 

Map updates do seem expensive, but bearing in mind the amount of data they contain they're not bad value. I only update mine every couple of years though - I reckon I can cope with the slight inconvenience that involves!

[Guest pelmetman]

With our up coming trip to France and Spain, I have just bought a Tom Tom europe, still getting the hang of it, but I believe I can put in lat & long :D

 

What I have found useful is the speed indicator as my works van speedo has been playing up for ages, also the speed camera warning bleep B-)

 

I have been surprised just how inaccurate the speedo in the car and van are compared to the sat nav, not tried it in the camper yet, Up to 10 mile an hour difference 8-)

 

Best thing is its a business expense :D

[tonyg3nwl]

Hi Alistair, In response , I have 2 different sat nav devices. Firstly a Garmin Quest, which by modern standards is now a bit long in the tooth, but has the advantage that you can preplan routes on a computer using Map Source. This is also somewhat out of date with its maps, and Garming no longer offer map updates for Quest . It has all the usual features, waypoint entry on computer screen, route amendments if you dont like its suggestion (to avoid Paris for instance), search by place name, routeing preferences,(avoid Tolls), driving speed on different types of routes, detailed route plan printout option, even type of vehicle (car,Truck, motorbike ,bus etc options.). All of this enables preplanning of your route if you have a destination in mind.. It also has auto rerouteing if you wander away from its chosen route which enable you to divert to visit a nearby attraction. Unfortunately, the Quest is no longer available as far as I know, but Garmin do make other similar devices.

 

My second device, which came "free" with the van, is a device called Mio Digiwalker C520, which has a larger screen than Quest (4.5 inch diagonal), and it has added features such as Bluetooth for connecting to mobile phone, can be use as a stand alone calculator, can have an added memory card which can be preloaded with waypoint files (CCsite, ACSI sites,Aires,Stelplatz France Passion locations , as well as its inbuilt waypoints such as petrol, lodgings, points of interest etc..

It is possible to input coordinates, and it is possible to preprogram it with a route including waypoints, but this has to be done on its small screen. I found this not as convenient as with the quest, and for a long route (down to Innsbruck from Dover via Romantic Road I found it was very slow to determine its preferred route, and even slower to then add waypoints to force my preferred route. A search facility exists to look into the added card to find a preset waypoint,campsite etc, but if you decide to "goto" , this become the new destination, and it forgets the original., We used this facility to preset the day's journey, not final destination.

Mio also has inbuilt speed camera warnings, speed limit warnings, both of which can be updated fro Mio website, and you can upload any new ones to Mio for others to download as well (not sure how to do this as I have never tried.)

Waypoint files in the form of CSV formatted files are available from various sources on internet, and Mio provide a Loader program to load them onto the additional memory card. Once there, the card can be read on a computer via google earth to pre look at a chosen site etc.

The bluetooh facility enable hands free phone use, if necessary,.

 

I hope this might give you ideas of what could be available, and what sort of things to look for when you are considering a purchase.

 

On final point, it is often claimed that the sat nav sitting in the passenger seat armed with up to date bookmaps, is likely to be a better option.. Your choice.

 

tonyg3nwl

[Robinhood]

alistair - 2010-11-18 6:32 AM

 

A couple of things annoyed me with the NavMan S80. The first was that I didn't ever find a way to enter destinations by coordinates. We had only the basic instruction book for it, not the full manual, so perhaps there is a way. This limitation was sometimes frustrating when we were looking for camping grounds for which we had coordinates and very little other information.

 

Question: Do more modern Sat Navs have the ability to enter destinations in latitude and longitude format?

 

Alistair

 

When you have your own Sat Nav, the best way to reduce the requirement to enter coordinates is to ensure you buy one with sufficient extra storage for, and the capability to work with POIs.

 

For example, "Archie's Europe" has a set of POIs available free that appears to have the great majority of campsites in Europe. Not only does it negate the need to put coordinates in, it also provides an invaluable planning tool when you decide to look for the nearest site when you suddenly find you're in an area you would like to stop in. (In Austria this year we targeted an area, only to find the two campsites we had decided to look at didn't really attract - we selected the next nearest and followed the Sat Nav, and thus found, 'by accident', probably the best site that holiday.)

 

Beware, the latest TomToms were being released without the ability to process non-proprietary POIs, and though a change of heart was promised, I'm not sure it has yet materialised.

 

My trusty old Go700 works beautifully with them, as does the Blaupunkt Travelpilot 500 I got with my new 'van (though I had to extemporise, because it doesn't work as described in the manual!).

[bolero boy]

I have a fairly basic TomTom One (v3) which I find works extremely well.

To answer your specific questions............

1) As has alredy been mentioned the TomTom One (and probably all TomToms) can accept Lat/Long coordinates aswell as 'point on map' navigation.

2) Once the route has been set, touching the bottom right corner of the screen brings up a further options screen including 'browse map of route' which allows zooming in/out to obtain the required detail. The route summary can also be displayed as 'text', 'images' or summary. Should you not be happy with the route chosen (which will reflect your desire for fastet/shortest/no motorway routing) you can tap 'find alternative' to travel via a piont or to avoid a point.

3) I don't subscibe to any map updating from TomTom but they do provide a 'mapshare' service where other travellers can share corrections via a link to your PC. This could be where a crossroads is now a roundabout, for example.

 

Finally, I don't find the unit too heavy or large to carry but there is always the option of a TomTom software package running on a 'smartphone'

 

Rgds,

Chris.

[lennyhb]

To enter coordinates into the Navman "S" range you need to enter them in an spreadsheet save as a CSV file & download to the Navman via the Navdesk program.

 

You can enter POI by the same method.

 

P.S. The full manual is on the CD that comes with the unit or can be downloaded from their site.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Way2Go]

I very rarely type in lat/long or post codes as I usually plan in advance where I'm going.

I always use ITN Converter which uses a Google map but gives much better control over the results.  This usually involves either creating an itinerary or a single destination.

Using the road and satellite views I can drag the destination exactly to where I need it to be then save the file as an .ITN (itinerary) file.  I then copy the file into my TomTom ITN folder and use the Itinerary Planning function to navigate to the destination.

I've written a 'how to' guide but its far too big to post here because it contains lots of screen dumps.  If you (or anyone else) would like a copy send me an email address via a PM.

W2G 

[Brian Kirby]

JudgeMental - 2010-11-18 8:52 AM .............You can plan your trip or what have you on PC ..............

But...........and there's always one :-) you can only do this if you also have a Garmin programme called MapSource.  This only comes "in the box" with Garmin "Zumo" units.  These are aimed at bikers, and are more expensive. 

If you buy, say, a Nuvi (the one generally aimed at car drivers), plus the lifetime updates, you should get a programme called MapInstall (download), to install the maps from Garmin's website via your PC to the unit.  You can then upgrade MapInstall to MapSource (no charge download), and this will allow a copy of the maps to be installed, viewed, and worked with, on the PC.  (But check this, as the offer seems endlessly to change.)  However, MapSource has different bells and whistles to our Nuvi, and the routing logic is different.  This can result in the route looking fine on the PC, but not working out so well in practise.

Inevitably, the devil is in the detail, and whereas the route may look fine in principle, if you want to avoid all surprises, you really have to examine it inch by inch.  For example, the machine will frequently guide you through the centre of a town in preference to taking the by-pass.  This seems to be because it assumes you will travel at, or close to, the legal limit so, if the by-pass is a bit long, it "thinks" the "direct" route, with all the traffic lights and other hold ups, will prove quicker.  It won't!  Moral, don't leave the decisions to the sat-nav: monitor it with a decent map as you go! 

You have to work with them, not rely upon them.  In the end, it is a machine, and its performance is dependent on the quality of the mapping, and the logic of the route planning.  There are only two suppliers of electronic maps for Europe, NavTeq or TeleAtlas (owned by TomTom),so whichever unit you get, one, or other, will underpin your routes.

You may want to explore a new version of the Nuvi, that has a facility to enter vehicle weight, length, width and height, and to route accordingly.  TomTom have a similar unit, but it is (or was recently) only available to commercial users.  Another that is readily available is the "Snooper" unit, which is more costly.  However, there are two caveats to these.  First, although the units will route you to avoid roads where a vehicle of the size, or weight, you input would be illegal, it will not necessarily eliminate roads that are narrow if there is no width restriction.  You can still get routed down lanes.  Second caveat: the map data that contains all these restrictions is not complete for the whole of Europe, so in some countries there will be no benefit, in others partial benefit, and others again, full benefit.  Both NavTeq and TeleAtlas are at about the same stage in getting these restrictions recorded on their maps.

On long, fairly direct, runs, whether on motorway or not, they allow the navigator to relax and look out of the window much more than working with maps allows.  On intricate routes, they have to be monitored more closely.  At complex junctions, especially motorway interchanges, they offer lane guidance, which is brilliant, especially on continental motorways where exits are often far too close together, and trying to identify which one to take from a map can be a nightmare.

Once the route from A to B has been established, it can reasonably easily be varied to include B and C as intermediate waypoints.  We have found that it is much better to take a route in shortish chunks, say up to a lunch stop, and then to the overnight stop, as two separate routes rather than as one long chunk, and it is definitely preferable not to take a route from, say, UK to Spain in one hit, and then wander around as the proverbial cloud expecting it to keep up.

Final quirk.  If you ignore the route instructions and take an alternative route it will take a long time for the unit to re-route fully.  It will commence by trying to get back onto its original route, using pretty much any farm track in the vicinity, whatever routing options you have selected.  Only after quite a few miles will the full re-route kick in, and this is best confirmed against a map, because it just may still include the odd farm track for fun, as a way to cut a corner en route!

[Big Momma]

I have the Snooper S7000 but I think that this will be too large if you are looking for a pocket size unit. The Snooper allows you to search by Address, Postcode or GPS co-ordinates. As for checking your route you just put your finger on the touch screen and move the map it is a really good feature. All the ACSI Europe Campsites are listed as well as as the Caravan Club and Camping & Caravanning Club sites (Very accurate) and also some locations from the 'BORD Atlas' (Other European sites). You can subscribe to the Traffic Camera Warnings and update everyday if you wanted to. The 'Live' Traffic Alerts are useful as well and give the option to avoid the delay or incident. les you to switch between 'Car' or 'Motorhome' and you can enter your vehicle dimensions (Motorhome Mode) e.g. Length, Height, Width, Axle Weights. It is also a 'Freeview TV' which works via a magnetic ariel (provided), I have tried it out and it works brilliantly. Not bad if you are sat waiting to catch a ferry and you fancy watching a bit of TV. It does not come cheap but it suits my requirements for both car and Motorhome use.

[Guest JudgeMental]

what is the new Garmin model Brian? sounds interesting and not before time! *-)

[Brian Kirby]

This one http://tinyurl.com/maanrh

[Guest JudgeMental]

Brian Kirby - 2010-11-18 5:57 PM

 

This one http://tinyurl.com/maanrh

 

Ta...seems to be for UK only though or is there another model I cant see :-D

[Brian Kirby]

Dammit, must I do everything!!!!!!!!!!  :-D 

http://tinyurl.com/maanrh - then click the tab entitled "In the Box".

Now I've got a headache, so I'll have to go and lie down in the dark!

[Robinhood]

Brian Kirby - 2010-11-18 6:49 PM

Dammit, must I do everything!!!!!!!!!!  :-D 

http://tinyurl.com/maanrh - then click the tab entitled "In the Box".

Now I've got a headache, so I'll have to go and lie down in the dark!

It wasn't a very well worded question from Judgemental. :-S The unit, though with European mapping, only seems to have truck data for the UK.After your little rest, and if you're feeling better, do as you have posted, but click on the 'versions' tab. :D

[colin]

I have been 'playing' with Satnav on my Nokia 5230, which uses Nokia Ovi maps, seems to work ok as a basic unit, there are all sorts of upgrades availible so time will tell, I'm tempted by viewranger so as not having to buy OS maps. Not sure how up to date the ovi maps are, but they are for 46 countries and free for life updates

[Brian Kirby]

Robinhood - 2010-11-18 7:39 PM .................. The unit, though with European mapping, only seems to have truck data for the UK.

Thank you, I am feeling better now. :-)  Because the European maps are included, I had assumed the truck data for other countries will be added as available, via the lifetime maps updates.  Maybe not.  Outside the UK, the availability of width, height and weight restrictions within electronic mapping is presently patchy.  It would be worth clarifying with Garmin before buying, though!

[smifee]

Like tonyg3wl I'm a multi satnav user. I also have a Garmin Quest but only use it for cycling & walking. Main system is an Alpine DVD player/Radio/Satnav with 7" screen. The maps are about 7 years old but it gives me traffic updates.

Cost of a new DVD with latest maps is £200 so I bought a Garnin 265W with a 4 point something inch screen & European maps for £100.

 

I usually have some idea of where I hope to end up and work a route out from a map. Note main road numbers and next town I expect to see signposted. Enter destination into Alpine & Garmin. Set off following satnavs until they differ from my route and then decide which to follow.

 

Most days I don't end up at my planned destination because I have found somewhere else to stop en route.

 

 

 

 

[RogerGW]

Hello Alistair,

 

Other possibilities to consider include:

 

1. Using TomTom's route planner on a PC or netbook. You can transfer a route to a TomTom device (if that's what you have). See http://tinyurl.com/33c2sa3 . Perhaps Garmin have something similar.

 

2. Get a copy of Microsoft Autoroute or similar. That should link to your chosen GPS device and won't need an Internet connection.

 

3. Get the ACSI DVD (see http://tinyurl.com/2wrbpcg ). It lists nearly 9,000 European camp sites and includes a (rudimentary) route planner. It also doesn't need an Internet connection.

 

4. If you do have a Web connection, you can get the same info from the Eurocampings site. Also, you can download POIs for those camp sites to your GPS (if it's one of the main makes).

 

5. If you do have a Web connection, use one of the Web mapping services, such as Google Earth.

 

6. You can also do this from an advanced mobile phone, although roaming charges might make that impractical. Eurocampings offer their service on a mobile, too. See http://m.eurocampings.eu/ .

 

Plenty of options.

 

Roger

[Guest JudgeMental]

I tend to get an evening crossing and drive till about 3-4 in the morning (well south of Paris) then look for an Aire to stop...with the sat nav I just plot to one nearest and that is it! In the past I have driven around for hours trying t find obscure Aires not ideal when your tired*-)

 

Yes if they bring out a trucking version with European maps maybe then I'll get one, as dont do much in the UK at all. But my Nuvi 770 is a bit troublesome so due the boot :-S

[RogerGW]

Way2Go - 2010-11-18 2:20 PM

 

I always use ITN Converter which uses a Google map but gives much better control over the results.

 

I'd not heard of that before, so thanks for mentioning it. Looks a nifty bit of work.

 

Roger

[alistair]

Many thanks to all who took the trouble to respond to my query. You've given me (and others!) very useful information to think about.

 

Alistair