Different water leak

[nuevoboy]

Hi folks, I've been reading Barbarian's posting (Water ingress or leak) with interest, as yesterday I discovered a problem in our '05 Nuevo.

I removed a storage container from the bottom of the kitchen cupboard and discovered the whole floor in there to be soaking. I mopped it all up and noticed that the very back of the cupboard, against the back wall of the van was a bit black.

I decided to check in the pan locker under the cooker and found this to be soaking too. On close inspection the water seems to be coming in where the wall meets the floor. If I am correct, I imagine that the floor of the van would have been installed initially and then walls built upon it. This would suggest that the water is coming down behing the rear wall.

My first thought was maybe that the bike rack fittings were the cause but then thought of the window. Above the rear window frame, there are marks on the bodywork that look like where mastic of some sort probably was (or maybe is...you know how silicone darkens with age). There seems to be quite a gap there where water would hold before dispersing, so this is my current No.1 theory.

However, I'd never have suspected the high-level brake light housing, as suggested in Barbarian's post.

I'd be grateful on comments, before I contact my dealer as there seems to be the greatest font of knowledge within this forum.

Thanks for reading...

...and yes, it's been raining heavily here in www (wild west wales).

[Brian Kirby]

You really need to investigate a bit more, to find out if the water is running down the face of the wall and ending on the floor, or getting into the wall construction and running down inside, soaking the construction as it goes, and then seeping out onto the floor.

The first kind of leak is bad enough, but providing everything is dried off and the source is identified quickly and the leak stopped, should not do, or have done, serious damage.

The second kind of leak is potentially very serious, because if not dealt with very quickly, it will eventually, or may already have begun to, rot the rear wall framework.  Repairing such damage is outside the scope of most DIYers abilities, and is expensive.

You need to look carefully at the rear wall of the van on the outside, generally in an area above the internal wetting, but allowing for water travelling sideways as well as down, depending on what it encounters as it goes.  Look inside also, especially when it is raining, or use a hose, to see if you can see water running down the wall.  I think you need to be looking around the bike rack mounting points, around the top of the rear window, especially at its top corners and along the top hinge (or bottom track if it is a slider), at the high level rear light, and at any panel joints between roof and rear wall.  If you find anything that might, or clearly is, letting water in, immediately cover it with gaffer tape to stop further ingress, and monitor the interior for a few days for signs the leak has stopped.

It would be a good idea to get a fan, or a fan heater, into the area that is wet, to begin drying it out.  If a fan heater, don't stick it on max heat.  Use the lowest setting, because if the structure is wet, making it warm as well is liable to promote rot.  If you can get one, because it is now winter and ventilating the van naturally will be difficult, a dehumidifier would be a great help. 

If the wall structure is wet, because of the presence of the internal lining and its decorative covering, it will take a very long time to dry properly, probably not becoming properly dry until next spring.  This will lead to some swelling of wooden elements, and some possible local sticking of doors / drawers.  It would therefore be a good idea to remove such items.  Take drawers out, and remove cupboard doors, to allow air to circulate as freely as possible.

[kelly58]

I have a new Nuevo II EK and have found water in the bottom of the cabinet and in the pan draw under the oven and found the leak to be the 12mm push on fitting between the metal tail of the kitchen tap and the polythene feed pipe which leaked when the water system was put under pressure and the water dripped off the joint and also ran down the piping and under the oven ,we had the MH back to Marquis last week where they replaced the faulty push on union tested the system and then found it free of leaks , so I would advise getting a lamp or torch and check the pipe fitting when the pump is switched on and the system is under pressure.

[Mel B]

My first suspect would the the water supply as Kelly has said. One of the easiest way to find out (rather than try to be a contortionist!) is to get some kitchen roll, put your hand up under the sink and along the pipes and use the kitchen roll to make sure they are totally dry - if you get a bit of soggy tissue that could be the culprit, but to be sure next run a load of water through the pipes and repeat the drying again - if you end up with a soggy piece of tissue again, you've probably found the problem. Even th esmallest bit of water dribble will show on a piece of kitchen roll, much easier than trying to 'see' it with your head stuck in the cupboard!

 

 

[kelly58]

Having a female of the species bent down with her head in the cupboard could have its advantages ??????

[Guest peter]

nuevoboy - 2010-11-19 5:49 PM

 

Hi folks, I've been reading Barbarian's posting (Water ingress or leak) with interest, as yesterday I discovered a problem in our '05 Nuevo.

I removed a storage container from the bottom of the kitchen cupboard and discovered the whole floor in there to be soaking. I mopped it all up and noticed that the very back of the cupboard, against the back wall of the van was a bit black.

QUOTE]as a first check just make sure it's not leaking from the sink drain or the water pipes to the sink.Check all fittings in that area.

[Guest peter]

nuevoboy - 2010-11-19 5:49 PM

 

Hi folks, I've been reading Barbarian's posting (Water ingress or leak) with interest, as yesterday I discovered a problem in our '05 Nuevo.

I removed a storage container from the bottom of the kitchen cupboard and discovered the whole floor in there to be soaking. I mopped it all up and noticed that the very back of the cupboard, against the back wall of the van was a bit black.

QUOTE]as a first check just make sure it's not leaking from the sink drain or the water pipes to the sink.Check all fittings in that area.

[Brian Kirby]

Agreed!  If that is where the sink is in this van, check all sink tap, and waste, connections first, and also check that the sink itself is sealed to the worktop.

[Mel B]

kelly58 - 2010-11-19 7:54 PM

 

Having a female of the species bent down with her head in the cupboard could have its advantages ??????

 

... not if I've got a pair of pliers in my hand ... you could find it a bit 'nippy' down south .... or I might try loosening some nuts with a spanner. >:-)

[Brian Kirby]

Well, that's one interpretation of the advantage!  There is, of course, another.  Think paper bag!  :-)

[nuevoboy]

Although it's a poor substitute for proper Welsh rain, I've spent the afternoon playing the hose over the rear of the 'van.

Started low down over the lower bike rack fittings, checked inside...nothing. Moved up to top fittings...same. Then rear window...ditto and then finally high level brake lights and marker lights.

Dry as a bone still, but I will inspect again tomorrow.

Regarding the other suggestions, I refilled the fresh water tank (as I'd drained it down), repressurised the system and carefully checked all the fittings as suggested. Made sure water was actually flowing through taps as well as with them off. I would have expected any leak on the join between flexible and fixed pipes beneath the kitchen mixer tap to have dripped onto the top or middle shelf, but it was only the floor that was wet, and on both sides of the dividing wall between the cooker and the sink, although I know how sneaky water can be.

Also checked the waste fittings, all seem sound. Haven't investigated Brian's suggestion of the actual seal around the sink, but we haven't been sloshing!

One thing though, is that there was a small damp patch on the drive this morning under the rear offside bumper / skirt.

Although there's usually a run off from my car and 'van through overnight condensation etc., I crawled underneath the 'van and there was a trace that the water had emerged from the rear corner floor of the 'van. It was definitely damp in that area and as the 'van was sloping ever so slightly on the drive, I suspect that remnants of the water from within the cupboards has migrated to that corner. Unfortunately, that corner is covered by the shower tray, so I can't inspect the floor from within, and as that corner is lower, then obviously that's not where the water entered.

Please note that we haven't used the shower itself since obtaining the 'van and the floor in there has only been cleaned and wiped dry.

(I've also been meticulous with my aim in the toilet area, in case anyone's been wondering). ;-)

The cassette compartment is also nice and dry, so can't imagine any leaks from that area (and the leaked water was clear).

So, the mystery continues.....

[Mel B]

Try filling the sink up, as you would when washing up and then let it out in one go and see if that puts enough pressure on the waste pipe to force some water out.

 

It is interesting that you say that both sides of the 'wall' (ie cupoard side) between the cooker and the sink is wet - can you see what pipes etc go from the sink past the cooker???

 

Whilst familiarising myself with the layout of the Neuvo, I stumbled upon the below article which may be of interest to you:

 

http://www.marquismotorhomes.co.uk/uploads/reviews/Nuevo%20Buyers%20Guide%20MMM.pdf

 

As well as the high level brake light, it looks like there have been probelms with the toilet cassettee door too, so it might be worth looking at that again.

 

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-640855.html

[graham]

We were getting water in the cupboards on our 04 Nuevo. I checked all the pipe connections etc could find nothing and convinced myself it must just be drips from the tap when driving, until one day I was in the van when it was raining and noticed bubbles of water at the bottom of the rear window. As the van was parked on a slight sideways slope (towards the rear door) this was then running the side of the work surface and into the under sink cupboard. I phoned AS service centre to arrange repair and I have to say they weren't completely surprised and said they would check the high level light as well. They removed and resealed the window and we had no more trouble. I would contact the service centre for advice and get them to fix it as it can't be allowed to continue.

[jazz]

Had same problem with a/s gatcombe if your nuevo has heater chimney situated over wardrobe check behind heater. Water leaked under chimney cowling, ran down inside wall onto water pipes, ran under shower tray to under cooker locker. Cowling resealed,water ingress cured.

[nuevoboy]

Mel B - 2010-11-20 6:34 PM

 

Try filling the sink up, as you would when washing up and then let it out in one go and see if that puts enough pressure on the waste pipe to force some water out.

 

It is interesting that you say that both sides of the 'wall' (ie cupoard side) between the cooker and the sink is wet - can you see what pipes etc go from the sink past the cooker???

 

Whilst familiarising myself with the layout of the Neuvo, I stumbled upon the below article which may be of interest to you:

 

http://www.marquismotorhomes.co.uk/uploads/reviews/Nuevo%20Buyers%20Guide%20MMM.pdf

 

As well as the high level brake light, it looks like there have been probelms with the toilet cassettee door too, so it might be worth looking at that again.

 

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-640855.html

 

Mel, I actually filled a washing up bowl full of water and emptied the whole thing down the sink, to try and gain some pressure, as you suggested.

 

I am intrigued by the toilet cassette door comment.

I'll have a good look at ours tomorrow, as I have a feeling that the frame of the door doesn't fit quite as well as the other locker doors on the 'van.

It may be a bit proud and could be suffering from the problem mentioned in the second link.

 

I have a copy of the report of the Nuevo's from the May issue of MMM and after discovering it after we had bought the 'van, I was feeling quite pleased with myself.

 

Thanks for you time and suggestions.

[nuevoboy]

jazz - 2010-11-20 8:19 PM

 

Had same problem with a/s gatcombe if your nuevo has heater chimney situated over wardrobe check behind heater. Water leaked under chimney cowling, ran down inside wall onto water pipes, ran under shower tray to under cooker locker. Cowling resealed,water ingress cured.

 

This sounds like a similar layout to ours.

There is a void underneath the wardrobe (behind the heater), which I believe is where the battery charger is. I'll have to investigate to see how access is gained to it.

Yet another possibility. 8-)

[jazz]

my gatcombe has an inspection cover on floor of wardrobe, on removal area was found to be wet, water dripping from isulation onto floor, damp was tracked with damp meter along floor of van to locker under cooker.

[kelly58]

Brian Kirby - 2010-11-20 5:11 PM Well, that's one interpretation of the advantage!  There is, of course, another.  Think paper bag!  :-)

Bang Thud Laugh Run.in that order

[nuevoboy]

Just an update.

After all the dousing yesterday, everything was still dry within this morning.

Decided to take the 'van for a run out and found as many steep hills (up and down) to see if we could redistribute any residual water and see if we could locate it's origin.

Typically, as in the Law of Sod, everything remains dry. *-)

Will obviously have to keep a close eye on things but as the forecast is for a dry but cold week, cannot imagine any immediate developments.

I'm still convinced the water is coming in from outside but as we hope to have a winter break in early December perhaps the problem will reappear once we're using it again.

In the meantime, thank you all for your time, interest and suggestions.

[Guest peter]

Until you cure the leak, put a good de-humidifier in the van to get rid of any residual moisture before it cause a big problem.

[silverback]

hi, park the van sloping forwards, douse the edges 1st, check, douse other bits as in order you want, check, the water will prob come in around the edges, it prob coming in as you say joint of floor to rear wall, i know you have done it once but you didnt say if it was sloping forward

jonathan

[nuevoboy]

peter - 2010-11-21 11:16 PM

 

Until you cure the leak, put a good de-humidifier in the van to get rid of any residual moisture before it cause a big problem.

 

I've been looking on t'internet for dehumidifiers and it would appear that these are about as complicated as motorhomes!

It would appear that most of the cheapies aren't worth bothering with and the modestly priced (£40+) won't be up to the task either.

It seems that it's only when spending £160 upwards that they are capable of working down to winter temperatures of 5 degrees and below.

I suppose it's like everything else, you pays your money....

and I imagine in the long run, it will pay for itself.

Phew.

[Mel B]

You can pick up dehumidifiers from car boot sales for £15-£20, often new or little used, we picked on up recently that was well over £100 originally, for just £20.

 

Failing that have a look in the private ads of your local newspaper. Even the smaller capacity 'budget' dehumidifiers are actually quite good so I don't know why you say they won't be able to do the job.

[Usinmyknaus]

Our friends had a 2005 Nuevo ES model which they bought at 2 years old. They very quickly had various problems with leaks but especially from a side window and around a high-level fog light at the rear. It was returned to the dealer twice during the 6 month warranty and several times afterwards at our friends' expense. The problems kept recurring and the damage to the inside panels worsened while the bills mounted. Unsuccessful in selling the repaired van privately, they sold it back to the dealer, after just over a year's ownership at a loss of a little over £10,000, plus a substantial amount spent on repair and travel bills.

 

I tell you this not to depress you but to suggest that someone other than a dealer may be more effective in fixing it, so if the AS service centre can fix it and adequately guarantee the repair then it might be worth considering? Had the first fix under warranty actually worked, then our friends might still be motorhoming.

 

I empathise with you as I spent all of yesterday's daylight hours dismantling my Knaus to find and fix a small leak from the hot water system - water was emerging around two metres from the source of the leak. The cause was an inferior hose clip used on a pipe which had been installed under permanent tension 'cos it was too short - I suspect the bean counters had dictated a few pence off the price of clips and shaving the hose costs before Knaus went bust? It appears German workmanship aint always what the ad-men would have us believe.

 

Hope you get yours sorted OK.

 

Bob

[nuevoboy]

Hi Mel, I know it's my fault, but I don't do car boot sales or buy the local newspaper (I'm a miserable old git ain't I).

Studying t'internet ads etc. led me to believe that the "budget" dehumidifiers don't work below 5 degrees and freeze solid.

As I imagine this is when they're most needed, I don't see the point of getting one of those.

Obviously the advertisers are trying to push the more substantial and up-market products but I'm a gullible old chap and I tend to believe everything I read. (Which is why I don't buy newspapers). (lol)

 

Thanks also for the nod for the oil heaters.

I'm sure I've seen a Netto store once; ah yes, Shrewsbury - 180 miles away. *-)