Trumatic water and space heater

[Poursay]

Hi guys

just spent a few days at the CC site at Chatsworth. Good site, good time until the heater packed up. It's a Trumatic C 6002 EH in a Swift Kontiki. It was working and then my wife went into the shower room and turned on the light. Not sure if coincidence or not, but the lights on the digital control for the hot water/heating system went out and the boiler stopped. All other systems in the van are OK. I opened the cupboard where the boiler is and noted that both the hot air outlets to the ducting were disconnected. There had been heat coming out of the vents, but not to the usual force. I thought perhaps the boiler had overheated so I pressed the "overheating " switch to no avail. The instructions say that there are 2 x 12 volt fuses on the electronic control unit and a 230v fuse in the power electronics housing. The manual says that the fuses should be replaced by "experts". I have had a quick look in both places but can't see anything that looks like a fuse - either household or vehicular. Any advice?

Mike

[Derek Uzzell]

Poursay - 2010-11-24 10:24 PM

 

Hi guys

just spent a few days at the CC site at Chatsworth. Good site, good time until the heater packed up. It's a Trumatic C 6002 EH in a Swift Kontiki. It was working and then my wife went into the shower room and turned on the light. Not sure if coincidence or not, but the lights on the digital control for the hot water/heating system went out and the boiler stopped. All other systems in the van are OK. I opened the cupboard where the boiler is and noted that both the hot air outlets to the ducting were disconnected. There had been heat coming out of the vents, but not to the usual force. I thought perhaps the boiler had overheated so I pressed the "overheating " switch to no avail. The instructions say that there are 2 x 12 volt fuses on the electronic control unit and a 230v fuse in the power electronics housing. The manual says that the fuses should be replaced by "experts". I have had a quick look in both places but can't see anything that looks like a fuse - either household or vehicular. Any advice?

Mike

 

Mike,

 

The 230V fuse is within the enclosure attached to the side of the heater that deals with 230V functions (ie. within the black 'box' that carries the overheating-protection button that you pressed). The two 12V fuses are within the similar-looking enclosure that handles 12V functions (ie. within the other black 'box', also attached to the side of the heater and about 90° round the side of the heater from the 230V 'box').

 

As you seem to have Truma's Operating Instructions for your C-6002EH, these include a drawing of the heater showing the two 'boxes' and defining them as "13 Power electronics" (the 230V box) and "12 Electronic control unit" (the 12V box).

 

I have not seen these fuses myself, but I expect they will resemble those shown on the following webpage.:

 

http://www.cybermarket.co.uk/shopscr3007.html

 

I guess it's possible that, with two of the heater's hot air outlets disconnected, the air in the heater-cupboard has got so hot that the heater's electronics have been damaged, but the first thing to check is that the fuse that protects the 12V power-supply to the heater (that's NOT the fuses on the heater mentioned in the Truma Operating Instructions) is intact. I've no idea where Swift would have put that fuse I'm afraid, but if you provide details of your Kon-Tiki's model and year of manufacture another forum-member may know.

 

Does the light in the shower still work?

 

Presumably the heater is completely dead, with neither gas nor 230V functions working?

[Poursay]

Derek

Thanks for reply. I have looked in the top section of the heater but can't see anything that looks like a fuse - could they be some form of electronic type?. The area where the 230v is "located " is also v.difficult to access but I opened the cover from the top,but still couldn't see a fuse.

On the main booard where the charger light is, is a switch for the heater, which when pressed still illuminates,so I am assuming that power is still getting to the heater. Yes the shower light, gas rings etc all work, but nothing on the heater works.

The van is a 2006 Kontiki 645.

[Derek Uzzell]

Mike,

 

I would expect the fuses to be nothing fancy and of the type shown on the webpage to which I provided a link. They will be somewhere on the printed-circuit boards (PCBs) that are housed in the two 'boxes' attached to the heater's side.

 

It's quite likely that the fuses can't be reached (or even seen) without removing the complete front of the box so that the PCB is fully exposed. This may well prove impossible to do with the appliance in situ if it has been installed - as is often the case - in a tight-fitting cupboard.

 

Even though the heater-switch on the control-panel still lights up, I'd still want to confirm that there is 12V power actually reaching the heater. Once again, if accessibility is difficult, checking this may be very hard to do.

 

Have you tried contacting the technical chaps at Truma(UK) - they may be able to help?

 

http://www.trumauk.com/

 

 

[Keithl]

Mike,

 

The Traumatic heater in our AT stopped working earlier in the year, it had worked fine at home and then refused to work when on site.

Assuming it was a 'mechanical' failure from the journey rather than an electrical fault I went round and checked all the connections on the back of the heater, wiggling and pushing all the plugs on the PCB and low and behold it sprang back into life :-D

My assumption was that the weight of the wire hanging on the plug had caused it to become partially dislodged so I have since cable tied all the wires to take the weight off the plugs.

Have you checked all the connections onto the PCB in your MH?

 

HTH,

Keith.

[Derek Uzzell]

Keithl - 2010-11-25 12:29 PM

 

Mike,

 

The Traumatic heater in our AT stopped working earlier in the year, it had worked fine at home and then refused to work when on site.

Assuming it was a 'mechanical' failure from the journey rather than an electrical fault I went round and checked all the connections on the back of the heater, wiggling and pushing all the plugs on the PCB and low and behold it sprang back into life :-D

My assumption was that the weight of the wire hanging on the plug had caused it to become partially dislodged so I have since cable tied all the wires to take the weight off the plugs.

Have you checked all the connections onto the PCB in your MH?

 

HTH,

Keith.

 

Keith,

 

I'm guessing that the heating system of your 2004 Auto-Trail comprises a Truma S-3002 convector 'fire' for air-heating (probably with blown-air capability and the 230V Ultraheat option), plus a Truma gas/230V Ultrastore water-heater. If that's so, then it's radically different from the Truma C-6002EH-based system in Mike's Kon-Tiki.

 

Having said that, your advice to check all electrical connections to the heater and to the PCBs is very sound. I'd go a step further and suggest that, with a non-functioning C-Series appliance, removing the electronic control unit's PCB and replacing is worth a try. It's pretty unlikely that the PCB would shake loose, but removing it and reseating it just might effect a cure.

 

Trying to sort out even simple problems with Truma combination air/water heaters can indeed be "Traumatic" (and expensive) as accessing things like fuses and PCBs may often be impossible with the heater in situ. Truma's installation instructions for a C-6002EH appliance read as follows:

 

"The unit and its exhaust system must be installed in such a way that they are easy to access for service work (particularly the resetting of the 230 V overheating switch) at all times and are easy to remove and install."

 

This advice is regularly ignored and I often think that motorhome designers work to an unwritten constitution with a FIFTH Amendment ("F***, I Forgot The Heater!). I remember saying this to the Truma(UK) technicians some years ago and being told that they dreaded Hymer motorhomes turning up at their workshops as so much furniture dismantling was needed with some models before access to their 'combi' heaters could be gained.

 

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

Just to underscore what Derek says, I think you will need to talk to Truma's technical bods.  Even allowing for the fact the heater will have been getting abnormally hot with its outlet ducts disconnected, temperature alone, at least within the range of the units heating output temperatures, should not cause a fuse to fail.

Assuming a conventional fuse, wire has to melt for the fuse to fail, and if such temperatures had been reached in the heater enclosure, a blown fuse would have been the least of your problems!

Depending on the quality of the installation, it may be that wiring got badly overheated and shorted, causing the main 12V fuse for heater supply (usually a dedicated circuit) to blow.  It may be worth inspecting the wiring (to the extent you can see it :-)), for signs of melted insulation. 

Otherwise, I would think electronic components would be more likely to be temperature sensitive, but even then the safety cut out should have interrupted the supply before such temperatures could have been reached.

Can you find/reach the 12V junction box in the heater enclosure (possibly outside but nearby), where the heater wiring usually originates, and get a multimeter on that to see of there is 12V to that point?  At least you will then know whether the problem is between battery and junction box, or between junction box and heater PCB.

[DESCO]

The fault on your Truma heater sounds very similar to one we had recently.

 

Ours just stopped working. No indicating lights on control switches with 12 and 230volt showing on meter, at the heater unit.

 

Turned out to be Fan motor gone u/s. This is a stepper motor that is used to control fan speed as it was not turning was not giving signals to board and so the unit shut down and would not work. Motor replaced by dealer all OK.

 

Hope this may be of some help.

 

Dave

[Eriba trafic]

I need a user manual for my "truma heater"ive been to http://www.trumauk.com/ found the model clicked "download user manual" only to be redirected to "error"

 

Certificates & product description only do down load,but not much help!

 

Where can i download a user manual?

 

Why i would like a user manual. I bought a secondhand eriba trafic which has the truma fitted ca 1984,mine has the blower with the blower regulator but only one knob on the heater unit,press to start twist to run,could this also be a thermastat?

 

Last weekend minus 7c outside plus 27c inside it dose work

[Derek Uzzell]

Eriba trafic - 2010-12-03 11:53 AM

 

I need a user manual for my "truma heater"ive been to http://www.trumauk.com/ found the model clicked "download user manual" only to be redirected to "error"

 

Certificates & product description only do down load,but not much help!

 

Where can i download a user manual?

 

Why i would like a user manual. I bought a secondhand eriba trafic which has the truma fitted ca 1984,mine has the blower with the blower regulator but only one knob on the heater unit,press to start twist to run,could this also be a thermastat?

 

Last weekend minus 7c outside plus 27c inside it dose work

 

THe following link should get you into the archive part of Truma's main website. If there's no data-plate on your heater to identify exactly which model it is, you'll need to use the pictures of the heaters and periods of manufacture to select the appropriate manual. (If there's a choice of separate Operating and Installation manuals, then I suggest you download both.)

 

http://dealer.truma.com/_anweisungen/Truma-Katalog/gb/trumatic_s/s_heiz_ues.html

[Brian Kirby]

Eriba trafic - 2010-12-03 11:53 AM I need a user manual for my "truma heater"ive been to http://www.trumauk.com/ found the model clicked "download user manual" only to be redirected to "error" .................

From memory, the manuals come up in a "pop-up" window on Truma's website, and you have to disable your pop-up blocker to progress.  I think you'll have to try this once, to trigger the response, then switch off the blocker, and then try the download again.  Hope this helps.

[Eriba trafic]

Mine seems to be a "2000" As thats the only heater made in 1984.The "2000" runs from 1980

 

The fronts different otherwise it seems to be the one.plus a fan with 3 settings,OFF AUTO & something

 

Last weekend i was roasting while ice formed on cars near by.I did turn the start knob back towards the start position,it seemed to want to go out at that point.Perhaps that was the thermostat working?

 

Later my next question will be "how can i stop the wind putting out the gas"Dose anyone make those chimney covers that goes round faster as the wind blows harder?

 

Thanks for the link all copied

[Derek Uzzell]

Eriba trafic - 2010-12-03 5:39 PM

 

Mine seems to be a "2000" As thats the only heater made in 1984.The "2000" runs from 1980

 

The fronts different otherwise it seems to be the one.plus a fan with 3 settings,OFF AUTO & something

 

Last weekend i was roasting while ice formed on cars near by.I did turn the start knob back towards the start position,it seemed to want to go out at that point.Perhaps that was the thermostat working?

 

Later my next question will be "how can i stop the wind putting out the gas"Dose anyone make those chimney covers that goes round faster as the wind blows harder?

 

Thanks for the link all copied

 

If your heater's front is different from the picture of the SW 2000, then your heater may well be one of the S-3002 models.

 

If you re-visit the Truma link, you'll see a picture half-way down the webpage of three heaters one behind the other. Click on any of the references to the right of that picture and you'll see that the Trumatic SL 3002/3 and SLP 3002/3 heater models were both manufactured from mid-1981 to mid-1993.

 

The blown-air fan is probably a Trumavent, with Manual/Off/Automatic settings. It was commonplace for Trumavents to be paired with S-3002 heaters.

 

These convector 'fires' usually (but not always) take air for their gas burners from below the leisure-vehicle's floor and then exhaust the burnt gas fumes from above the roof. Truma offers various designs of 'tops' for the roof flue (though not rotating-cowls as sometimes seen on house chimneys). I suggest you check that the flue from the heater to the roof, and the flue-top, have no debris in them (eg. leaves or spiders' webs) and, if there is a below-floor air intake, that this is clean.

 

If your heater hasn't be serviced recently, then you might want to consider having this done. As it's 26 years old and still heating well, it deserves a bit of TLC.

 

[Eriba trafic]

The s3002 is the one,

 

Whats the difference between "automatic" & "manual " fan setting?Dose it regulate the heat?

 

I wont be doing anything to the heater until spring,as long as it works.After Christmas(& new year)+a week to recover,i want to drive down through France stopping at scrap yards

 

I "need" (would like) a drivers door, bonnet('dented by large ice cubes falling out of a clear sky),& passengers seat then on to the south coast where there are several places to stay without charges & with power water etc & where i can improve my camping car without being frozen to death or soaked to the skin

 

And where excellent wine costs £1.20/Liter

[Derek Uzzell]

Eriba trafic - 2010-12-03 8:59 PM

 

The s3002 is the one,

 

Whats the difference between "automatic" & "manual " fan setting?Dose it regulate the heat?

 

I wont be doing anything to the heater until spring,as long as it works.After Christmas(& new year)+a week to recover,i want to drive down through France stopping at scrap yards

 

I "need" (would like) a drivers door, bonnet('dented by large ice cubes falling out of a clear sky),& passengers seat then on to the south coast where there are several places to stay without charges & with power water etc & where i can improve my camping car without being frozen to death or soaked to the skin

 

And where excellent wine costs £1.20/Liter

 

As I understand it, the Manual setting allows you to manually control the fan speed independently of the heater (eg. for circulating unheated air around the vehicle's interior), whereas the Automatic setting adjusts the speed of the fan automatically relative to the heater's output.

 

I've no hands-on experience of Truma convector heaters like the S-3002, nor of the Trumavent Fan, but you can download Installation and Operating Instructions for the Trumavent Fan from:

 

http://www.truma.com/downloadcenter/trumaventtebtn_installation_de_nl_fr_it_gb_dk_e.pdf

 

http://www.truma.com/downloadcenter/trumaventtebtn_instruction_de_nl_fr_it_gb_dk_e.pdf

 

 

[Eriba trafic]

Thanks i was wondering how much current the fan was using.

 

I do have another question & wasnt sure where to ask?

 

Has anyone run a gas heater during winter & noted how much gas it really uses.This one is said to use between 60 & 250 grams of gas per hour(i think it was)

 

I did a rough estimate amusing 200grms/hr & run 24/7 & the cost would be about 2€ per day

 

My main thought is how long will a 13kg bottle last for?Id hate to run out of gas say 21.00 on the 31 December!

[Derek Uzzell]

Eriba trafic - 2010-12-04 9:28 PM

 

Thanks i was wondering how much current the fan was using.

 

I do have another question & wasnt sure where to ask?

 

Has anyone run a gas heater during winter & noted how much gas it really uses.This one is said to use between 60 & 250 grams of gas per hour(i think it was)

 

I did a rough estimate amusing 200grms/hr & run 24/7 & the cost would be about 2€ per day

 

My main thought is how long will a 13kg bottle last for?Id hate to run out of gas say 21.00 on the 31 December!

 

I suggest it would be more realistic to estimate a middle-of-the-road average of 100g/hour gas consumption (and I think that may be well on the high side). In which case you'd be getting through 1kg every 10 hours and a 13kg bottle would last 130 hours (5.41 days).

 

Personally, I work on the basis that I'll use about 500g/day of gas and, on that basis, a 13kg bottle would last me 26 days. But a lot of that gas goes to running my motorhome's big fridge and for water heating, and it's important to highlight that I don't use the vehicle in very cold weather conditions and don't run gas air-heating overnight. As my motorhome has a refillable gas-bottle, I can largely ignore the possibility of unexpectedly running out of gas.

 

I think you are going to have to suck it and see. Take heavy-duty sleeping bags/duvets and plenty of thick clothing and turn down the heating. :-) :-)

[Brian Kirby]

Eriba trafic - 2010-12-04 9:28 PM ................... My main thought is how long will a 13kg bottle last for?Id hate to run out of gas say 21.00 on the 31 December!

Can you fit more than one cylinder?  If so, I think your best protection against running out, and best way to find out how long a given cylinder lasts, would be to travel with two cylinders on manual changeover.  When one dies, switch to the other, replace the dead one, and so on, noting start and end dates as you go.

[lennyhb]

Eriba trafic - 2010-12-03 5:39 PM

 

Later my next question will be "how can i stop the wind putting out the gas"Dose anyone make those chimney covers that goes round faster as the wind blows harder?

 

Thanks for the link all copied

 

That used to be a common problem with this range of heaters, tends to happen when parked next to a house wall or tall hedge. The fix was an extended flue pipe, it raises the flue about a foot above the roof, you are more likely to find one at a caravan dealer than a Motorhome one.

Easy to fit just unscrew the flue top screw on the extension & replace flue top.

 

 

 

 

[Eriba trafic]

Longer chimney? Ive tried that before on the boat which has a diesel heater with a far wider chimney finality fitting an "oversize whirl around"which is un fittable to the camper.

Ill try a longer pipe again and see what happens

 

When the diesel re ignights there is a tremendous explosion,im not looking forward to the same with gas!

 

I will soon know how long the gas lasts,no need for the gas fridge just now!cooking take little at home (in the countryside) a bottle lasts almost one year!

 

So 5 days is i suppose about 12 days real use??I will "shake the bottle" from time to time & have a 7kg?? (smaller)spare gas bottle

 

I have only ever used a gas heater once a long time ago in the workshop.And that use a bottle a day!!I was sure this camper heater would be better(otherwise it wouldnt be so popular)but no idea how much better

 

I will post again when i have results to hand

 

Im off to the camper tomorrow before it freezes again with fingers crossed it dosnt snow before im safe in a warm bit of France.

 

She who must be obeyed is looking forward to us joining our camper from the 2 December for two weeks (i hope i find a safe place to leave it for the Christmas period all a bit of a rush!

 

[Poursay]

Hi guys

After scrabbling around I found the blown fuse and eventually found a source for a 6.3amp small fuse. Low and behold the lights on the control work. Didn't take it any further as drained down for the cold snap.

Much obliged for your prompt and helpful assistance( esp. Derek)

Mike

[Brian Kirby]

Hope you also got a spare fuse!  The failure may be related to the disconnected heating ducts, but it might be something else so, as the cause of the blown fuse hasn't be identified, a spare seems worth keeping - just in case!

[Poursay]

Yes I did. Thanks Brian, will wait until we need the van again, prob Jan and then fill up and fire up and keep fingers crossed. I assume I can't use the heating system without filling with water and don't really want to do that as already drained down.

Regards

Mike

[Brian Kirby]

I'm not familiar with your heater Mike, but I thought it was a space heater only?  If so, I can't see any reason why you should need to fill with water to run the heater.  Even the combi heaters, that incorporate a water heater within the same unit, can be run for heating without water, so surely there can be no linkage between your heater and water?

[Derek Uzzell]

Poursay - 2010-12-08 12:12 PM

 

...I assume I can't use the heating system without filling with water and don't really want to do that as already drained down...

 

Except for the original C-3400/6000 models that were manufactured from 1994-1997, all Truma 'combination' air/water heaters can safely be used for air heating without being filled with water.

 

I believe you'll find this stated in your Trumatic C-6002H Operating Instructions on the bottom-right of the first page. The relevant paragraph says

 

"Heating is always possible in all operating modes (gas, electric and mixed operation) without restrictions, with or without water."