Attack on Andy

[Robinhood]

Rosbotham - 2010-12-18 9:04 PM

 

I've no great inclination to get involved in this debate, but it does irritate me when half a story is told.

 

Snip

 

Paul

 

Whilst I'm not an MHF subscriber, though I was a member before subscription was introduced, I did manage to catch much of the thread before it was split and removed from view. My view coincides almost exactly with Paul's, including the point about not winning if you tangle with moderators.

 

If you have a moderated forum, the moderators, when they get involved, always will (and have to) have the final word, whether you like it or not. As has been noted, you have a choice to subscribe or not.

 

Given the nature of the debate that has carried on here, I'm not surprised the thread was "pulled".

 

The poster in question (albeit they were also a mod) had a valid point to make (from their point of view), and those who have reason to be grateful to Andy may take a different point of view.

 

I also saw the quick follow-up from the original poster on Andy's potential value to MHF if he had posted on other subjects.

 

The start of the original post (before it was edited ) was somewhat more balanced than is being set out, and, whilst I have little reason to defend MHF, I find it quite ironic that people can complain so strongly about an attack on Andy on there, whilst on here venting their vitriol on a particular individual, with, as Paul sets out, only an edited version of the original story.

 

It's all a matter of perspective; after all, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

[rupert123]

How many times does it have to be said, this was not an edited version. their were later posts by the original offender to try and play down what he said. the original post was very clear. All he needed to do was come out and say sorry for causing offence, end of story. Anyway I have finished now having already said perhaps more than I should but apologists infuriate me and it seems we even have a couple on here. I know what Andy did as all other forum contributors should, many just talk about things he went out and did it. OK he was helping himself but helped others also, including me.

FOR THE RECORD THIS IS THE ORIGINAL POST IN FULL COMPLETELY UNEDITED.

 

 

a)

"Could it be that he has no interest in MHF now he has got what he wanted? Rolling Eyes

 

Seemples!"

 

[aultymer]

The attack on Andy was just one in a string of poor Mod decisions on MHfacts recently.

The mods appear to have taken a collective decision to 'clean up' the forum by removing any adverse comment and banning anyone who questions their decisions.

Recent lunacy includes removing any words with asterisks so rendering posts unreadable and removing post which criticise a mod who slagged off Andy.

The lunatics are in charge of the asylum with no controls at all in place.

It will cost the site owner quite a bit in lost revenue over the next few months.

It will be interesting to see if the site rules stand up to a challenge under the 'Unfair Terms and Conditions Legislation'!!

[747]

On the watered down version of the thread (the one the mods are happy with) I have thanked Andy for steering me clear of the 2007-onwards Fiat models. Without his input, I could have made a costly mistake as it was the 3 litre model I would have bought. With my luck, it would have been a disaster.

 

Let us hope that some changes will come out of this situation. It seems that MHF mods are coming under fire on various forums for poor service. A bit of deja vu methinks. I remember another organisation taking a hammering recently on forums. :-S

[Derek Uzzell]

Do MHF Moderators take on the task for love or are there side-benefits – like no subscription charge perhaps – that make it attractive? When you become an MHF Moderator, are you issued with a job description, or do you just decide for yourself what your role should be? Can anyone become an MHF moderator, or do you have to 'prove' yourself in some way?

 

(Just idle curiosity really, in case I suddenly feel an overwhelming urge to grace the MHF forums with my all-encompassing knowledge and vast intellect!)

[Brock]

I am a member of MHF. There are many positive posts on the forum about Andy about his battle with Fiat over juddergate.

 

I have read the specific thread relating to Andy. Personally I thought it was an inappropriate comment but did not add up to an attack.

 

It is easy for all of us to view a post in a different context, or post something that with hindsight could be open to different interpretations, because most of our communication skills are based on body language and tone of voice. Short, sharp written communication between people who have no rapport is always going to create problems from time to time. It is how we deal with those problems that determine whether forums etc are a success.

 

I do not have a problem with the moderators on any site I visit. I accept their right to moderate and that occasionally they may get it wrong. I have never felt the need to attack anyone, let alone a moderator. I have apologised personally to anyone I have inadvertently offended and ignore the posts of one member of this forum who ridiculed me.

 

I am a member of MHF because I received some valuable advice that saved me money. It's only fair that I contribute financially as I do not have much experience to contribute. I agree with Rupert that there is nothing to be gained by being involved with a forum that does not add enjoyment to our motorhoming. I buy MMM as my contribution to the upkeep of this site.

[Melvin]

Andy had sacrificed his time and nearly his sanity, to help people like myself, like many other through Andy's hard work, Fiat came up with a repair for the 2.3, not to everyone satisfaction, but, at least a repair.

 

I am very gratfull to Andy for all his help

 

 

[Clive]

I don,t think that Andy is a "Forum Person" but I believe felt that because of the horrendous problems he was getting that quickly became widespread problems suffered my many owners that it was right to spread the word as best he could and apply pressure for all owners benefits. This forum and MHF were both used to this end. Andy still has his Fiat and most certainly his experience has been to the benefit of many others but not to himself. After all he could have just kept quiet and part exchanged the vehicle. But Andy is an honorable man and has not done this.

But Fiat now seem to have developed their way out of this current problem and Andy has ducked back into obscurity. He is due only thanks.

 

I am just waiting to see Fiats new model when they get something else wrong and the saga will start all over again!

 

C.

[trooper]

I daily follow MHF and MMM forums if I can, I am completely computer illiterate and not very good with words.

I have been insulted many times on mmm forum for stating honest facts,

but have always been treated with utmost respect on MHF both on the forum and at rallies, but they are both good forums in there own way so please why not ignore mistakes made on both forums and get on with enjoying chatting about and using our motor-homes.

[duffers]

ee ba gum

I remember me old granny telling me about this really great friendly site that was set up in the early years of the new millennium, when a few members set out to give an individual welcome to every new poster.

everything in the garden was rosy, no trolls, no aggro,

aggro started to build, subscriptions introduced and a favoured few offered free subs as moderators while a disgruntled few went off to found another MHF criticising the decision to charge and stating that their forum would forever be free

 

in those distant days the MMM website was also subscription led - you had to have access to a magazine and was not very user friendly - ie just lists of threads a bit like Yahoo groups, remember that anyone?

 

censorship and mods have gone mad - ukcs led the way - but many seem to be trying desperately to emulate them

 

some excellent sites went to the wall along the way unfortunately

 

others developed in a more positive way

 

:D

[Clive]

And the conclusion is duffers?

 

C.

 

[duffers]

oh I don't do conclusions Clive,

that means I have to engage my brain and actually think

 

good heavens man

 

 

but I suppose it would have to be that nothing ever stays the same

some things improve - like the design of this site f'r instance

and some things don't - and power definitely goes to some peoples' heads - even if it's just the possession of a censor's red pen

 

all part of life's rich pattern

 

I have met a lot of really nice people on all the various discussion forums that I've contributed to, and they far outweigh the plonkers n trolls n aggro merchants :D

 

I've not been affected by the Sevel debate - got rid of our Fiat years ago and now stick with VW, I have noted Andy's hard work - crusade in passing and think he deserves a lot of thanks from a lot of people

[Clive]

I agree.

C.

[rupert123]

Brock - 2010-12-19 10:37 AM

 

I am a member of MHF. There are many positive posts on the forum about Andy about his battle with Fiat over juddergate.

 

I have read the specific thread relating to Andy. Personally I thought it was an inappropriate comment but did not add up to an attack.

 

It is easy for all of us to view a post in a different context, or post something that with hindsight could be open to different interpretations, because most of our communication skills are based on body language and tone of voice. Short, sharp written communication between people who have no rapport is always going to create problems from time to time. It is how we deal with those problems that determine whether forums etc are a success.

 

I do not have a problem with the moderators on any site I visit. I accept their right to moderate and that occasionally they may get it wrong. I have never felt the need to attack anyone, let alone a moderator. I have apologised personally to anyone I have inadvertently offended and ignore the posts of one member of this forum who ridiculed me.

 

I am a member of MHF because I received some valuable advice that saved me money. It's only fair that I contribute financially as I do not have much experience to contribute. I agree with Rupert that there is nothing to be gained by being involved with a forum that does not add enjoyment to our motorhoming. I buy MMM as my contribution to the upkeep of this site.

 

Good post John and on the whole I agree with you. I said I will not comment on the Andy thing any more and will not, have said all I need. However the mods on MHF are another thing and they seem to have forgotten their roll. I appreciate the reasons for having them and personally I would like to see more done on here re abusive posts. Over their however they seem to allow some abuse providing it is not directed at a mod. In fact I have just had a complete new thread removed which did not even mention them as mods, just one individual by name, but was not in any way abusive, bit sarcastic may be. You cannot disagree in any way with a mod or indeed question any single thing they do, this in my opinion is wrong. If you have a post removed someone should at least tell you why. MHF is a good forum in some ways but despite its high numbers, or so they tell us, it is also hard to even disagree with the 'guru's' over their. They have a good campsite and aires data base, could do with one on here, how about it. I have now been thrown of along with two others so does not much concern me any more.

[fjmike]

sshortcircuit - 2010-12-18 9:44 PM

 

"I don't know if the outcome was right or wrong, but it's inevitable that if you have a pop at the moderators on any internet forum, you will be shown the exit. "

.

Speaking as a moderator on another forum, don't judge all forums the same.(we are not all sensitive). I find it interesting that people are stating that Andy's subscription "ran out", when I would have expected him to have received a free subscription to MHFacts as Don Madge and others do?

[Derek Uzzell]

fjmike - 2010-12-19 7:25 PM

 

sshortcircuit - 2010-12-18 9:44 PM

 

"I don't know if the outcome was right or wrong, but it's inevitable that if you have a pop at the moderators on any internet forum, you will be shown the exit. "

.

Speaking as a moderator on another forum, don't judge all forums the same.(we are not all sensitive). I find it interesting that people are stating that Andy's subscription "ran out", when I would have expected him to have received a free subscription to MHFacts as Don Madge and others do?

 

My understanding is that an Andy Stothert posting on the MHF forum included the words ""As you have probably guessed I haven't renewed my subscription for Motorhomefacts..." This was taken as an implied criticism of MHF and things went rapidly downhill from there.

 

The surprising thing for me is that there should be an expectation that anyone with a job like Andy's will feel a duty to spend his leisure time on a motorhome forum discussing subjects that don't specifically affect him. OK, if you are a wrinklie like me who has time on his hands and no need to earn a crust, but, if I was working full time, the last thing I'd be doing is waste my precious leisure hours yakking on internet forums.

[grahamw]

Derek Uzzell - 2010-12-20 9:32 AM

 

 

 

The surprising thing for me is that there should be an expectation that anyone with a job like Andy's will feel a duty to spend his leisure time on a motorhome forum discussing subjects that don't specifically affect him......

 

I absolutely agree with you Derek. Andy, I sensed, had found the whole juddegate issue a drain on his energy such was his commitment. He openly said he wished to bow out when there was light at the end of the tunnel. It had absorbed a huge amount of his time and I for one would have been amazed if a busy person like Andy could have found the time or the desire to continue an "agony aunt" role on MHF.

 

I'm personally eternally grateful to Andy for the way in which he empowered me to deal with Fiat and get issues resolved. Thanks Andy.

 

Graham

[Sophie]

The last two Posts accurately sum up the reasons for Andy not continuing as a subscriber on MHF, or a Poster on here.

 

All the more reason why there was absolutely no justification for the sort of suggestions (initially craftily worded as a "question! ) made by a Poster on MHf as to his motives.

 

As has been said the thread then degenerated, with the wrong people being taken to task by the Mods!

[michele]

Whats going on who attacked Andy please explain >:-(

[robertandjean]

We are the posters on MHF who started this debate. (we are Jeannie 201 on MHF). Our intention was not to attack Andy for his role in "juddergate" but simply wondered why a journalist, such as Andy, who makes his living from the motorhome community would not wish to be a member of that community? Yes O.K. if it's your day job then apprecitate you might not want to live it 24/7, but given the increasing importance of the internet and the decline of the printed medium (witness the demise of Motor Home Mag) then it would seem sensible for someone such as Andy to be involved. Sorry if we caused problems for anyone, that was not our intention.

[rupert123]

michele - 2010-12-20 6:56 PM

 

Whats going on who attacked Andy please explain >:-(

 

Michele go to my first post on this thread and then look down a few to sophies first post which explains it better than I did.

[rupert123]

robertandjean - 2010-12-20 8:30 PM

 

We are the posters on MHF who started this debate. (we are Jeannie 201 on MHF). Our intention was not to attack Andy for his role in "juddergate" but simply wondered why a journalist, such as Andy, who makes his living from the motorhome community would not wish to be a member of that community? Yes O.K. if it's your day job then apprecitate you might not want to live it 24/7, but given the increasing importance of the internet and the decline of the printed medium (witness the demise of Motor Home Mag) then it would seem sensible for someone such as Andy to be involved. Sorry if we caused problems for anyone, that was not our intention.

 

You were in no way to blame for this anyone who looked knows who it was.

[michele]

rupert123 - 2010-12-18 4:12 PM

 

colin - 2010-12-18 3:53 PM

 

Not quite sure which thread is which, but here's the thread with rupert1 comment deleted.

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftoptitle-98244-message-from-andy-stothert-re-3-litre-x250.html

 

Colin as I said it has been split into two. The one you have listed is the subscribers only one so most will not be able to read it. A lot of comments have been removed. As I have now been banned from both threads along with others seen as trouble makers not sure what is going on now.

 

Rupert thanks alot now it makes sense.

 

And dont worry about it pay it no mind you are better off without them .

Silly people always jump to the wrong conclusion.

 

Once had abus driver that got promoted to an inspector the power went to his head reminded me of Blakey :D

You're better off with out them don't waste your time