malc d Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Tracker You say " surely a same sex union can never be truly called a wedding " It isn't. It's called a civil partnership. :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Tracker - 2011-01-03 4:00 PM ................ Or am I wrong - perhaps homosexuality is as normal a human trait as heterosexuality after all - now wouldn't that be an interesting perspective! Anyone care to comment? ............. There is a difference between normal, meaning within the range of natural variance, and normal as representative of a majority characteristic. Example: for men to be over 2.0 metres in height is quite normal, though near the extreme of the natural range in male height. However, they are abnormally tall, when measured against the average height for males. Sexuality is a personal thing in most societies, so is not that widely discussed. However, the variations in peoples' sexuality are fairly widely known, even if little understood, ranging from the, I suppose, relative extremes of homosexuality, through bisexuality, to heterosexuality. Each of these terms is no more than a label, and as such not all that helpful, but I would suppose such labels have evolved to enable difference in sexual preferences to be identified, probably to reduce the scope for embarrassment at social functions.Each category conceals a very wide band of preferences, and appetites, so that varying forms of perversity, or "kinky" sex exist within each, some overlapping, while some enjoy lifelong partnerships where others never pair, while some individuals are wholly predatory. At the extreme, some highly predatory individuals commit rape, while others become paedophiles, some prefer watching others engaging in sexual activity, some prefer collective sex, some swing between partners etc etc.All of the above must be regarded as normal, though not all may be acceptable in particular societies, or at particular times. In one form or another, all these practises seem to have been with us for all of recorded time, which is for at least 3,500 years, and all seem to have excited sufficient attention at various times to warrant comment. Most people fall into the broadly heterosexual group, just as most UK males are around 1.75 metres, and most UK females around 1.64 metres, in height. Those outside the normal range tend to be picked on, and doubtless always have, so lofty, shorty, fatty, ginger, etc can be terms of endearment or derision. Skin colour too, has its problems, with some folk finding it difficult to accept others whose skin is of noticeably different colour to their own. Then we have the acquired differences of religion, nationality, and culture, which cause even more trouble, because we simply cannot cope with folk who are not as we are. Oh, and I quite forgot the male/ female divide, because each gender, for some reason, and despite having shared the whole of our evolution together, still can't quite fathom the other. On balance, therefore, it is quite amazing that society functions at all, but hardly surprising that frictions about the differences between us continually arise. All this, I submit, is completely normal, and is what we should accept as such.Does that mean we should cease questioning other people's values where we find them abhorrent? I don't think so, because to do so would be to ossify social development, but whereas it may be reasonable to question, and make comment, I do not think it reasonable to use the disagreement as a means to victimise the non-conformist.The essence of most jokes is that they shock, or offend against normal decency, and that some are too offencive for some individuals, while others roar with laughter. That is the risk of attempting to tell jokes on an open forum, you do not know who may be deeply, and genuinely, offended and who may laugh. If offence is caused, it is far better to simply apologise, than to accuse the offended of lacking a sense of humour. As Tracker signs himself, "there are no right or wrong ways - just different", and so it is with what makes us laugh.The best sources of Jewish jokes I ever knew were two Jews, for whom I was happy to work, separately, for several years. They would happily laugh at such jokes from others, but would equally laugh at jokes touching any other group or subject. I never felt this to be a defence provoked by insecurity, or a feeling they had to "out-Jew" the opposition, but simply that as two mature, confident, professional, individuals at the top of their game, they just enjoyed a good joke.I think others might usefully learn from this, and not assume that what they have found offencive, or apparently prejudicial, was so intended, or aimed at them individually. We all need a bit of tolerance from time to time, to be forgiven our transgressions, and to be understood. Go in peace. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teflon2 Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Here goes I'm going to throw my bit into the mix. What is homophobic supposed to mean. A our school many years ago homo = man, phobic =fear so what do homosexuals expect it to do (man fear) or (fear man) John (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Brian - I'm not going to copy your long but extremely well written piece as a quote (only clogs up the thread) but while referring to it I must point out that you have omitted the most obvious differences affecting this particular group of people on this forum. What about those who deliberately choose to own a british built motorhome or continental one? There are differences between Autosleeper users will vociferously defend their choice of manufacturer against, say, Autocruise or Autotrail. What about the differences between van conversion preferers (is that a word?) or those who go for the coach built. Now I know it will be difficult for some people to confess openly to having secret desires for certain makes/models but, if we are going to have an open, adult debate about different preferences and tendencies then let's get them all out in the open!! David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Nice one David - mine's a Jaguar XF Coachbuilt Motorhome please - if only! We would happily buy any make of van that suits my purpose but we find that vans with 'feet up' lounging amongst other features suit our lifestyle best - and most of them are UK built - apart from the oily bits! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred grant Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 fred is uk built, and proud of it, me ansums. f Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Okay David, in the format of 'AA' meetings: my name is Mel, and I'm a .... Eurovan-lover. :$ There, you have the truth now, I love foreign vans, especially French ones (and French cars having had many of them :D ). I'll get my beret .... (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 I like em old and slow :D ...........oh and the same with campers (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travelling Tyke Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Hmm, not sure I should say........But...... Love the classic shape of our van, but have desires from time to time for one where I can leave the boss in bed and lounge with a cuppa elsewhere whilst she is still sleeping...... and where I can get away from Corrie! :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Tyke - you could always use a deck chair at the kitchen end ... :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Brian , How we have gone from discussing homosexual jokes to suggesting that rape must be regarded as normal as you put it I find horrendous . I hope and pray that rape is not acceptable in any society and I cannot think of anywhere in the modern civilized world where it may be . I truly hope nobody on here has to deal with a loved one been a victim of what is in my view the most horrific crime possible and has to watch the destruction of that person that they love because If they had then I am sure they would find said comment as disgusting as I have . I have joked on here with others and not understood the uproar by certain people on the gay subject . I have said all along I have no personal dislike of gays , as I would normally say to people " If your gay your gay" so what . I feel this thread has now gone way , way beyond the original subject and yes I now agree that maybe the time has come to pull the thread and possibly to the relief of some I will not be posting again . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 david lloyd - 2011-01-03 7:15 PM Brian - I'm not going to copy your long but extremely well written piece as a quote (only clogs up the thread) but while referring to it I must point out that you have omitted the most obvious differences affecting this particular group of people on this forum. What about those who deliberately choose to own a British built motorhome or continental one? There are differences between Autosleeper users will vociferously defend their choice of manufacturer against, say, Autocruise or Autotrail. What about the differences between van conversion preferers (is that a word?) or those who go for the coach built. Now I know it will be difficult for some people to confess openly to having secret desires for certain makes/models but, if we are going to have an open, adult debate about different preferences and tendencies then let's get them all out in the open!! David It did cross my mind David, but, although it would have made my diatribe more relevant to Motorhome Matters, it would also have made what was already too long, even longer! However, I agree, and I can never understand why the pvc fans get heated about the coachbuilders, of the front loungers about the fixed bedders, or the airers about the 'siters and on, and on. Why? Is it insecurity? That sneaky little suspicion that we may be doing something wrong, that somehow the person who does things a bit differently may be superior, or know what we don't? Funny old lot, ain't we? :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 My last words on this subject. I suspect that both of the self confessed so called Homosexuals posting on here are a wind up and you have all been had. I make no apology for being dismayed that a happy word like "Gay" has been hi-jacked to describe Homosexuals who indulge in the disgusting act of Buggery. Nothing Gay about that at all. I suspect it's done to make the act seem something nice, which it's not. I also make no apology for finding what they get up to disgusting and un-natural. Why should I. No more thaan I would for feeling the same about Bestiality or Necrophilia or Paedophilia. It's a perversion full stop and as such should not be allowed to be portrayed as normal behaviour by so called Humans. Animals don't do it , do they. Why do you think that is?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertandjean Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 antony1969 - 2011-01-02 8:08 PM Robert , asylum has one s , but ass has 2 Hi Antony, Thanks for spotting the typo, but good to see you know what you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Brian Kirby - 2011-01-03 10:45 PM However, I agree, and I can never understand why the pvc fans get heated about the coachbuilders, of the front loungers about the fixed bedders, or the airers about the 'siters and on, and on. Why? Is it insecurity? That sneaky little suspicion that we may be doing something wrong, that somehow the person who does things a bit differently may be superior, or know what we don't? Funny old lot, ain't we? :-DBrian, I do everything differently and there are few my age that are like me (not that I know of anyway). Do you know what? I don't give a damn. A the song goes "I am what I am". Because if I were any different, I would not be me. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertandjean Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 jhorsf - 2011-01-02 8:24 PM It would seem Robert you have a thing about Daily Mail Readers so maybe not so liberal after all You are right, wrong to just mention Daily Mail readers, should have included Sun and Daily Star readers as well to ensure you did not feel left out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 antony1969 - 2011-01-03 8:34 PM Brian , How we have gone from discussing homosexual jokes to suggesting that rape must be regarded as normal as you put it I find horrendous . I hope and pray that rape is not acceptable in any society and I cannot think of anywhere in the modern civilized world where it may be . I truly hope nobody on here has to deal with a loved one been a victim of what is in my view the most horrific crime possible and has to watch the destruction of that person that they love because If they had then I am sure they would find said comment as disgusting as I have . I have joked on here with others and not understood the uproar by certain people on the gay subject . I have said all along I have no personal dislike of gays , as I would normally say to people " If your gay your gay" so what . I feel this thread has now gone way , way beyond the original subject and yes I now agree that maybe the time has come to pull the thread and possibly to the relief of some I will not be posting again . Sorry Antony, but you have not read fully what I wrote. My fault - too long. Look again at the distinction I made between what is within the normal range of behaviours, what we might consider to be normal behaviour, and what might be considered acceptable. I do not anywhere say rape must be considered normal, just that as a kind of behaviour it falls within the range of behaviours that, over the 3,500 years of recorded human behaviour, occurs again and again, in war and peace. It is extreme, but sadly, it is not that abnormal, just down at the reptilian end of our range of behaviours. Condemn it by all means, as I do, but do not think it abnormal. That is far more dangerous.Besides all of which, I don't think we were really discussing homosexual jokes, but active prejudice against homosexuals, which is not, in my opinion, the same thing at all. That was my point about the Jewish jokes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 peter - 2011-01-03 10:49 PM ........... Animals don't do it , do they. Why do you think that is?. Bonobo chimpanzees do it all the time, Peter, males, females, children, the lot (though not, so far as I know, the dead), and they are considered by anthropologists our closest living relatives in the animal world. Bull calves also display somewhat frisky and confused interest in other calves in spring. Not sure how/why I know this: maybe that is also a perversion! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Brian Kirby - 2011-01-03 11:08 PMpeter - 2011-01-03 10:49 PM ........... Animals don't do it , do they. Why do you think that is?. Bonobo chimpanzees do it all the time, Peter, males, females, children, the lot (though not, so far as I know, the dead), and they are considered by anthropologists our closest living relatives in the animal world. Bull calves also display somewhat frisky and confused interest in other calves in spring. Not sure how/why I know this: maybe that is also a perversion! :-DI think the observation that Bonobo's are our nearest relatives is a clue. Perhaps Homosexuals are not as evolutionarily advanced as Heterosexuals and will partake in any behaviour that will give them sexual fulfillment. :D I agree that it's a bit bizarre that you have this knowledge of weird animal behaviour Brian, Hmmm. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porky Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 I am amazed that this has produced as much interest as going backwards in a Fiat. Whoops is there a connection there(lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhorsf Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 I for one am fed up with these wind up knob jockeys trying to tell us they are offended Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 I do like to a good rant :D...........naturaly, having lead a sheltered life in the navy I dont understand a lot of it though (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travelling Tyke Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Well, I thought (and hoped) that this post had moved on from the homosexual issue into a lighthearted chat about "Vans" Let it go, there will always be those that "do" and those that "dont" It is some thing I accept that "happens". and I dont give a damn if they keep it to themselvse.........and .. oh they ......dont involve children imo that is sad and rather sickening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Bonobo?............I thought he was the lead singer for U2 :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkc Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 No your getting confused with The Monkees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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