Possible new insurance requirments

[ham]

Do you keep up the insurance on your Motorhome whilst it off the road and stored for the winter? .If so then this article, I read in the motoring section of this Sundays Paper will make it Illegal to keep a vehicle off the road and uninsured an offence by law, The article was in reply to a question from a service man that was being posted overseas but wanted to keep is Car stored and insured. The Answer was.. Things will become a little more complicated for you this year because under new continuous insurance enforcement regulations set to come into force this spring (date not yet announced) every vehicle will have to have at least 3rd party insurance, regardless of whether it is being driven or stored of road(.Unless it as been SORN statutory off road notification). This applies to all vehicles even if its locked away in a garage. So you will have to have insurance cover going as well as the tax or fill in a SORN form and put your vehicle off the road . I have always kept the insurance going along with the tax as I tend to take my M/home out of storage and use it occasionally if the weather is good or to give it a run to keep all the working parts loose..

[Rod_vw]

An exerpt from the Federation of British Historic Vehicle Clubs website and was posted there on 17-09-2009...

 

"Government proposals to introduce a system that would effectively require continuous motor insurance have been reported in our newsletters since 2004/5 when there was an initial consultation on the subject. This proposed to compare the DVLA database of vehicles that are licensed for road use with the motor insurers’ database (MID) of vehicles that are insured. Those whose vehicles appear on the former, but not the latter, would become liable to penalty.

 

The legislation making this possible was contained in Section 22 of the Road Safety Act of 2006, but this Section has yet to commence, and there was a further consultation on the subject earlier this year. Having assessed the results, the Department for Transport issued a press release on 16 September expanding on its proposals and stating that it was expected the new enforcement regime would come into force in the ‘next financial year’.

 

At present, it is only illegal to use, or keep, an uninsured vehicle on the road – provided it is off the road, it doesn’t matter whether it is insured or not. Once Section 22 commences, however, it will be an offence to keep an uninsured vehicle unless it is SORNed (or has been off the road since before the SORN system began in January 1998).

 

FBHVC supports in principle any scheme that will reduce the number of uninsured vehicles on the roads. We also strongly recommend that individuals ensure that their vehicles appear on the insurance database by checking at www.askmid.com"

[Derek Uzzell]

The situation is well summarised on:

 

http://astbury-wren.co.uk/news/continuous-insurance-enforcement-for-april-2011-20.aspx

 

I don't know if the "April 2011" start-date quoted on that web-page is correct, but it might be logical to link the start of CIE to an existing significant date like the beginning of the UK's Financial Year.

[Mel B]

Interesting, but who in their right mind would store a motorhome off the road and leave the tax on it anyway? Surely that's just daft? So if you did store it for any length of time, you'd probably want to get a refund on unused tax, at which point you'd SORN it anyway, so no problem, whether you keep it insured or not.

 

The only exceptions I would imagine and people who wound't be bothered about declaring a vehicle as SORN would be those who get a free tax disc, ie disability badge or those with exempt vehicles (ie pre 1973), but I still doubt that they'd risk having their pride and joy written off if something happened whilst it was off the road and therefore not have insurance, even if it is just third party, fire and theft. Or am I being naive? 8-)

[Tony Jones]

One side-issue on this new rule - most of our policies have a line allowing us to drive other vehicles (3rd party only). I assume this will disappear, or at least be restricted to cars which have other insurance cover? I hope it's the latter, as within the family we've occasionally used that provision to lend and borrow cars (NOT motorhomes! :-S )

[Rod_vw]

Tony Jones - 2011-01-16 3:05 PM

 

One side-issue on this new rule - most of our policies have a line allowing us to drive other vehicles (3rd party only). I assume this will disappear, or at least be restricted to cars which have other insurance cover? I hope it's the latter, as within the family we've occasionally used that provision to lend and borrow cars (NOT motorhomes! :-S )

 

The clause about already 'covered by another insurance' applies already I think.

[fjmike]

Tony Jones - 2011-01-16 3:05 PM

 

One side-issue on this new rule - most of our policies have a line allowing us to drive other vehicles (3rd party only). I assume this will disappear, or at least be restricted to cars which have other insurance cover? QUOTE]

 

This is already law Tony. You are only allowed to drive anothers vehicle on your insurance if that vehicle already has insurance in place. (I watch too much POlice,Stop, Action ) :-S

[donna miller]

And yet the general population still refuse to accept that the government just want total control over its subjects. They want us to be so laden with restrictive laws that we are no longer in control of our lives.

The law states that to use or keep a vehicle on the road, we must have a minimum 3rd party cover, this is to cover damage or losses to a 3rd party. How the hell can having your van parked in a garageor on private property be a risk to a 3rd party.

 

The more of these dictatorist laws we accept, the less chance we have of ever returning to what we once called a democracy, you know, the one that was an alternative to a dictatorship or a communist state.

 

[602]

Hi,

 

Surely it would make more sense to chase those vehicles that have no insurance, but are still taxed, so are likely to be used ... deliberately or in ignorance.

 

If you vehicle is parked on private ground to which the GENERAL public have access, you must have 3rd Party insurance.

 

So you have laid up your campervan for the Winter, and suspended the insurance ..... and then it catches fire. ????? ££££ Does anybody know anything about "laid up " insurance? Specifically, what does it cover, and what does it cost?

 

All this depends on whether you have declared SORN. Or more to the point, that DVLA accept that you are SORN'd. There have been cases where keepers have payed the fine ..... and then found DVLA's acknowledgement of SORNing.

 

602

[Rod_vw]

I'm happy to SORN if I don't want to insure a vehicle for the road.

 

I recon if this process manages to catch / prevent a few un-insured drivers it's a good thing.

 

The British Insurance Brokers’ Association calculate that the uninsured cost each of us law abiding insured on average £30 per annum.

[747]

There are Insurance companies that will revert your policy from Fully Comp to TPFT when it is laid up and you get a cheaper rate for that period. Saga do this for cars but apparently not on their motorhome policies.

 

In light of these changes, it may be advisable to shop around for your next policy. Or, contact Saga and ask them to do this on motorhomes. It could bring in a lot of business for them.

[Brian Kirby]

But it really isn't that complicated.

If the vehicle is kept on a public road, or is used on a public road, it must be taxed (VED).

For so long as it is taxed, it must have at least third party insurance.

If the vehicle is taken off the road, it may be SORNd.

If it is SORNd, it may be left uninsured.

Your choice.  Seems fairly straightforward to me.

[Mike B.]

Brian Kirby - 2011-01-16 7:21 PM

But it really isn't that complicated.

If the vehicle is kept on a public road, or is used on a public road, it must be taxed (VED).

For so long as it is taxed, it must have at least third party insurance.

If the vehicle is taken off the road, it may be SORNd.

If it is SORNd, it may be left uninsured.

Your choice.  Seems fairly straightforward to me.

I agree pretty straightforward. On saying that even if you have it on a sorn, surely unless it is kept in a locked up out of sight garage you would keep it insured anyway? What if it caught fire, got stolen, or somebody just walked into it? Calculated on my annual insurance it costs me £30 per month for total peace of mind whether I use it or not as against £40K to replace it if it caught fire-no brainer to meMike

[LordThornber]

Mike B. - 2011-01-16 8:03 PM

Calculated on my annual insurance it costs me £30 per month for total peace of mind whether I use it or not as against £40K to replace it if it caught fire-no brainer to me

Mike

 

I agree Mike, a no brainer.

 

Martyn

[malc d]

Brian Kirby - 2011-01-16 7:21 PM

But it really isn't that complicated.

If the vehicle is kept on a public road, or is used on a public road, it must be taxed (VED).

For so long as it is taxed, it must have at least third party insurance.

If the vehicle is taken off the road, it may be SORNd.

If it is SORNd, it may be left uninsured.

Your choice.  Seems fairly straightforward to me.

I agree BrianThe government want the list of cars licensed to use the roads, held by the DVLA, to match the list of cars that are insured, that is held by the insurance companies.I don't see why anyone would have a problem with that. (?)

[Tony Jones]

Of course, the issue I raised only applies where the expiry dates of tax and insurance differ - but remember, to tax a vehicle it only needs to be insured THAT DAY, it can expire tomorrow!

 

I'm with Donna here (never thought I'd hear myself say that, in spite of her attractive avatar!) - it's more and more information they're after, and "knowledge is power!"

[le canichot depang]

Why have a motorhome and not use it ?

[bob b]

donna miller - 2011-01-16 4:47 PM And yet the general population still refuse to accept that the government just want total control over its subjects. They want us to be so laden with restrictive laws that we are no longer in control of our lives. The law states that to use or keep a vehicle on the road, we must have a minimum 3rd party cover, this is to cover damage or losses to a 3rd party. How the hell can having your van parked in a garageor on private property be a risk to a 3rd party. The more of these dictatorist laws we accept, the less chance we have of ever returning to what we once called a democracy, you know, the one that was an alternative to a dictatorship or a communist state.

Somebody once said (can't remember who), "People who believe that they live in a democracy make the best slaves".

It does have an element of truth about it.

[Brian Kirby]

Tony Jones - 2011-01-16 3:05 PM One side-issue on this new rule - most of our policies have a line allowing us to drive other vehicles (3rd party only). I assume this will disappear, or at least be restricted to cars which have other insurance cover? I hope it's the latter, as within the family we've occasionally used that provision to lend and borrow cars (NOT motorhomes! :-S )

 

Your last post above reminds me I didn't understand this one.  If you hold a valid vehicle insurance policy, whether or not that vehicle is SORNd, that allows you to drive other vehicles with the owner's permission, why should that change?  Obviously, the vehicle you then drive must be taxed, and so, must be insured by its owner/keeper.  Notwithstanding, as you say, you would have minimum third party cover while you are driving it, if your own policy allows that.  Equally obviously, if you SORN your vehicle and then cancel the insurance, you no longer have vehicle insurance, so could not drive another vehicle on your (now non-existent) insurance.  However, you could still legally drive it, if added to that vehicle's insurance as a named driver.

None of the above is really any different to what is already supposed to happen.  Vehicles must be taxed, and must legally have at least third party insurance.  All these new measures are intended to achieve is to take untaxed, uninsured, (and so often untested) vehicles off the roads.  I can't see what is wrong with that, nor can I see where this virtual paranoia about information on databases is coming from.

DVLA has retained information on currency of VED, under the concept of continuous registration, since 2004.  The Motor Insurers Bureau has been maintaining insurance data on cars, logged against the registration number, for a similar period.  Logically, the two have been brought together to ensure tax, test, and insurance data are all current, and are accessible on demand.

Unless folk actually want to drive untaxed, uninsured, and/or untested, vehicles on the roads, I really can't see what there is to get excited about.  If they are, who is in favour of them continuing to do so?  Or am I missing something so obvious I just can't see it?  :-)

[Tomo3090]

BWhen we go on tour for up to 5 months we reduce our fully comp insurance just to cover fire & theft for our car. We are with Esure and they will cover it for this if it's up the drive. We only have to ring them to get it returned to fully comp when we return. Other insurers wanted it to be in a garage, which we haven't got. We don't SORN it though in case we come back early in an emergency so it's ready for use. Plus our neighbour can take it for a turn round the block every so often on his insurance, (third party cover).

[euroserv]

Brian,

 

I think you have got it just about covered. There is nothing complicated or even sinister about this particular activity.

 

I would however like to equire as to why there are still 'millions' of un-insured vehicles in use if the systems to prevent this have been in use since 2004?

 

Surely an un-taxed, un-insured and un-mot'd vehicle would have fallen apart by now without proper maintenance?!

 

mmm

 

Nick

[Brian Kirby]

euroserv - 2011-01-17 5:37 PM ............. I would however like to equire as to why there are still 'millions' of un-insured vehicles in use if the systems to prevent this have been in use since 2004? .............Nick

I think quite a few have "disappeared" over the years.  They may well be maintained and kept in good order, but are neither taxed, tested, nor insured.  Since growing numbers of police cars now have character recognition gear, the unregistered ones will begin flashing up, be identified for what they are, and presumably crushed.  It'll take a while though, UK is now supposed to rank highest in Europe for uninsured drivers!  :-(

[747]

I think this must be the last link in the chain to get a grip on uninsured vehicles.

 

When I part exxed my last van and Discover Leisure 'lost' their portion of the logbook (that I should have sent off to DVLA), I was fined for not SORNing the vehicle. They covered the cost for me but nevertheless, the system was quick to pick up on it.

 

The only way to pick up on uninsured vehicles on the road is to go down this path.

 

The only other way (that is not workable in practice) is to collate MOT, Insurance and Road Tax. If a vehicle is lacking Insurance then a contractor is authorised to scrap the vehicle by Government consent.

 

It may take a bit of finding though. That is why it could be unworkable. :-S

[colin]

Brian Kirby - 2011-01-17 6:55 PM

euroserv - 2011-01-17 5:37 PM ............. I would however like to equire as to why there are still 'millions' of un-insured vehicles in use if the systems to prevent this have been in use since 2004? .............Nick

I think quite a few have "disappeared" over the years.  They may well be maintained and kept in good order, but are neither taxed, tested, nor insured.  Since growing numbers of police cars now have character recognition gear, the unregistered ones will begin flashing up, be identified for what they are, and presumably crushed.  It'll take a while though, UK is now supposed to rank highest in Europe for uninsured drivers!  :-(

Nope, all it will mean is that the inocent motorist will get more fines for speeding and parking throu the post as their cloned numberplate is used, a crime that is increasing year on year.

[Rod_vw]

Cynical? Is that a Type 25 owners trait?

 

Yes I've been there with a 1980 Moonraker and thoroughly enjoyed it so please don't take the above personally.