john y Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 My Globecar has a Electroblock psu that is known to be sensitive to voltage spikes. A voltage protection device can be obtained from the makers(Schaudt) for around £80,surely this essential mod should be done free of charge while still under warranty? Is there an in line antisurge device avalable that could be fitted to the power supply? Tesco,s sell a trailing socket with antisurge protection for computers for £5, if thats good enough for pc,s must be ok for a psu! I,m tempted to buy one and use that, maybe not!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Let us (me) know how you get on with it. I am like you, I believe a surge (or spike) is the same wherever it occurs and any decent bit of kit would do. It is very rarely that I use a site and it is a lot of money to spend. I do not go abroad and risk that ropey foreign electric muck, so a cheap alternative would suit me fine. There are enough electrical experts on here to give us an ear bashing if we are wrong. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 I can understand the desire to not spend more than you need to but atthe same time you have a motorhome worth several thousands of pounds. If the Elektroblock PSU goes phut due to a spike it will cost you in the region of £200 and several weeks to get it repaired as this can only be done in Germany at Schaudt. you could spend a few quid for a surge protected trailing socket such as you can buy for computers but is it really suitable? Will it really provide the protection you require? If it doesn't prevent the PSU going phut do you think Tesco or wohever will stump up the cost send the unit to Germany for repair? Alternatively you could spend £85 ish and be safe in the knowledge that the protection provided is right and suitable for your equipment. I don't know what is in the OVP unit but I do know it is suited to protecting the EBL units. Just for information Schaudt are temporarily out of stock of OVPs, we are waiting for a large shipment of them to come in and half of that order is already sold! D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallii Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 A surge is the result of the voltage on a line rising well above the 230v level as a result of the load on that particular phase suddenly changing. In the UK it is very unusual, elsewhere, well who knows, heavily loaded phases with poor regulation will give a voltage surge rising to 250/260/270volts. The PSU will not take it and it goes Phut! A spike is just a transient voltage fluctuation and is unlikely to cause any problems, caused by welding gear, other heavy and sudden loads on the phase. A spike supressor is just a couple of components and will not do the job of a voltage stabiliser ( lots more components in a nice box). If you want a REALLY technical explanation I will oblige but I think that explains it well enough. H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 The EBL PSU is very sensitive, I've heard of them going phut just because a vacuum cleaner was switched off. It is because of this sensitivity to problems that I would not worry about saving a few tens of pounds to protect several hundred pounds worth of equipment. Spike, surge, voltage fluctuation whatever it is called EBLs do not like it up 'em ;-) . D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallii Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Dave Newell - 2011-01-18 6:48 AM The EBL PSU is very sensitive, I've heard of them going phut just because a vacuum cleaner was switched off. It is because of this sensitivity to problems that I would not worry about saving a few tens of pounds to protect several hundred pounds worth of equipment. Spike, surge, voltage fluctuation whatever it is called EBLs do not like it up 'em ;-) . D. From what you say Dave, is the problem on the 12v side (was that a 12v vacuum or a 230v one?) or the 230v side? I can sort a design for a 12v transient suppressor and also the 230v version although it is easier to buy a 230v for not a lot of money. It would be good to know what actually fails, then I might have a go at a suitable circuit. Geoff watching TV in the M/H on the drive :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 I have read somewhere that the EBL can fail on low voltage as well as overvoltage. Is there any truth in that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 It is the 230V side that goes phut and it was a 230V vacuum cleaner plugged into a socket in the motorhome in question as I understand it. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john y Posted January 19, 2011 Author Share Posted January 19, 2011 Thanks all, somthing to think about! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Surely where there can be a high incidence of voltage fluctuation as on Campsite, Aires, etc.. the EBL / PSU should be capable of handling those fluctuations & IMHO buyers should be able to expect such.It is obvious that Schaudt must be aware that their EBL /PSU's are so sensitive to electrical spikes & they should by now be fitting the OVP units as standard or modifying their product to ensure suitability.As Dave said he has a high volume of the OVP’s on order, so Schaudt can hardly claim lack of knowledge.Or is it a just too good a money spinner for them. Repair the ESB /PSU @ c£200 + an OVP @ c£80. Very nice whilst they are allowed to perpetuate the situation.I do not see any incidents where UK manufacturers’ fit PSU’s with this problem, so why allow Schaudt to continue. Get on to your Dealers and claim / complain then, like Fiat, Schaudt might remedy the problem in a professional manner or Motorhome manufacturers' may source PSU's from a source that is "Fit for Purpose"Sorry Dave, not wanting to take business away from you ,but in their current situation they should be classified as “Unfit for Purpose” and any rectification required carried out under Warranty (where applicable) or product recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Totally agree Flicka, and others in this camp, the units should not need additional protection and surge supression should be built in. Others makes of equipment do not fail and niether should Schaudt's. edit typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 The OVP O1 works by switch off the supply of the voltage is outside the range of 175 to 265 vac , it remains off for over 1 second minimum and only switches back on when voltage is within the range. It operates within 10 ms of the fault being detected. I expect it has surge arrestors inside as well. So not the same as buying a surge protection extension lead I am afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Schaudt do apparently make an EBL with the OVP built in, perhaps its the converters that don't specify it when ordering, or perhaps they don't know there is a problem. I'm pretty sure that if you were buying a brand new German motorhome with Schaudt electrics and specified an OVP be fitted the dealer would charge you a lot more than £85 for it plus fitting charge of course >:-) (just playing devil's advocate ;-) ). Heard from Schaudt this morning our order is on its way so we should have OVPs in stock again by Tuesday next week :D . D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 That IMHO is not the point Dave, they should not have to specify it as an EXTRA.Worst case scenario, someone reliant on mains for Medical reasons (but not aware of the problem) takes additional precautions of Surge protection at the Motorhome socket, but his equipment fails to function because the Motorhomes' supply is not functioning due to the Schaudt unit failure ???????????????Hymer are one of, if not the largest producers of Motorhomes in Europe& other Schaudt equiped Motorhomes, I can not believe the manufacturers' are not getting any feed back to make them aware. Otherwise WHY produce the OVP ??????????????????It equipment is IMO Not "Fit for Purpose".UK power supplies are more stable than many other European countries, so if it happens in the UK expotentially the No of incidents on mainland Europe is vastly greater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Hi Flicka, "Worst case scenario, someone reliant on mains for Medical reasons (but not aware of the problem) takes additional precautions of Surge protection at the Motorhome socket, but his equipment fails to function because the Motorhomes' supply is not functioning due to the Schaudt unit failure ???????????????" This scenario is not really relevant here because it is only the charger that dies, the rest of the 240V system will carry on working although the "mains connected" indicator lamp on the control panel fails as it is supplied from the PSU/charger. Otherwise I agree with you, the Schaudt units should have the OVP protection built in but how do we get the situation changed? D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john y Posted January 21, 2011 Author Share Posted January 21, 2011 Have looked under seat at Electroblock in my Trendscout and noticed a white plastic box in the power supply lead, maybe this is a protection device? It does,nt look anything like the OVPO1A shown in MMM. Have emailed Globecar to enquire , will keep you informed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Dave Newell - 2011-01-21 7:05 AM Otherwise I agree with you, the Schaudt units should have the OVP protection built in but how do we get the situation changed? D. There's enough Hymer owners out there to moan at / complain to the Dealers.Wonder is that the German motorhomers haven't already done so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 "There's enough Hymer owners out there to moan at / complain to the Dealers." There is indeed but do you honestly think they will? D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 I have decided to change my tone on this issue now I have looked into it further. If you look at all the Schaudt trade information it recommends the use of an OVP O1 when installing the Electroblok system. Indeed all their schematics of an installation show one fitted. So Schaudt are making it well known to Installers the OVP 01 should be fitted, therefore if the motorhome builder chooses to save money by not fitting them the issue is with them failing to meet recommneded installation requirements. This certainly applied in the last few years anyway and if I am correct the OVP O1 became available in 2006, I am sure Dave will correct me if I am wrong. So if you have a post 2006 motorhome without added protection the matter should be taken up with the motorhome builder or supplier who has failed to meet the necessary requirements. I believe Hymer have fully compensated one owner for the repair of his unit so appear to have taken responsibility on at least one occassion. This does not alter the suggestion Schaudt should still build in the protection, but if they say as part of the system you need an OVP 01 protection unit then that is what you need and installers should fit as part of a system. The argument now appears to be with the installers and not the equipment manufacturers. My recommendation now is if you do not have an OVP is to purchase one and fit it, and attempt to reclaim the cost from the Motorhome supplier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 I agree with Jon, with one exception. The responsibility lies with the dealer who sold the van, and through him the manufacturer/converter.So, especially if your van is still under warranty (under which the manufacturer will usually give some kind of guarantee as to materials and workmanship), the omission of an OVP O1 would appear to be a warranty issue: even more so if the Elektroblock has suffered a related failure where this item has been omitted. This should remain true even where the vehicle is out of warranty, but you may have a somewhat harder job convincing the dealer to stump up for one, and then reclaim his costs from the manufacturer of the van!The point being that the installation, as supplied, was not "fit for purpose" - because it was not carried out in accordance with the specialist supplier's specific recommendations. Reasonably, however, this argument could be used only for vans manufactured after Schaudt recommended inclusion of the OVP O1 unit. A flood of claims for installation of the OVP O1 units, in accordance with Schaudt's recommendations, may just persuade Hymer group manufacturers to fit them as standard, as it now seems they should be doing.I wonder if Jon is able to put up a link to the relevant Schaudt information so that those affected can arm themselves with the evidence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 http://www.schaudt-gmbh.de/uploads/media/NL20060804_-_OVP_01_EN.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixie Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 There is a European Standard - EN 50160 - which covers the "Voltage Characteristics of Public Distribution Systems". I would be prepared to bet that Schaudt test their Elektrobloc against supplies within (and maybe just outside) this standard, and if they had to defend a claim would fall back on this standard. Their literature certainly seems to be saying that the Elektrobloc may fail under very poor supply conditions.What is probably unfit for purpose is not the Elektrobloc, but the power supply on most camp sites.Buying a protection device and claiming the cost from Schaudt, the builder or the supplier is most likely a non-starter. Perhaps a claim against the campsite operator?Personally I think life's too short and plan to just stump up the £80. John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 OVPs arrived this afternoon and I've spent the last hour packaging some up for sending out in the morning post. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yeti Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 I have a 2010 Hymer Exsis with an Electroblock. I phoned Dave Newell a few weeks ago and was told that they were awaiting new stock,they took a note of my number. Good enough Jackie phoned earlier this week and left a message to say they were now in. I returned the call and ordered one,it arrived yesterday-well done for excellent service. It still beats me when you spend £60k+ on a motorhome the builders penny pince on something that costs less than £100! Thanks once again Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yeti Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 I have a 2010 Hymer Exsis with an Electroblock. I phoned Dave Newell a few weeks ago and was told that they were awaiting new stock,they took a note of my number. Good enough Jackie phoned earlier this week and left a message to say they were now in. I returned the call and ordered one,it arrived yesterday-well done for excellent service. It still beats me when you spend £60k+ on a motorhome the builders penny pince on something that costs less than £100! Thanks once again Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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