cviclark Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Hi Having spent 20 years in the RAF installing telecomms equipment into air transportable cabins and vehicles I do not like the idea of plugs and sockets on highvoltage equipment where they are subjected to vibration, unless they can be locked. I have also seen the damage generators and power cuts can do to switch mode power supplies in all types of equipment. Fridges, Aircon, Microwaves and TV's are particularly vunerable. The mains distribution on the Hymer is so simple that if you can wire a three pin plug you can wire in one of these. There is not a ring its all spurs off a trip switch. It would be easier to wire it before the trip switch but it is possible to go between the trip and the distribution board. I don`t have a commercial interest in either solution, I just want the best protection for all the devices in my van. I am waiting further information from Sollatek before I decide which way to go. The Sollatek was designed in UK by the guy who founded the company but like everything else is probably made in China. I found Sollatek looking for a small UPS which I initially thought would be a more elegant solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pieterv Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 I am also interested in the Sollatek. What further info are you expecting of them? If you get anything interesting, do share! (lol) Pieter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 One question needing answered is....will it survive the vibration in our Motorhomes. It is fair enough to mention the plugs and sockets on the OVP but will the sollatek even hard wired survive the vibration in our Morohomes and the extremes of hot and cold, especially the cold. Domestic or office use will very rarely see it below 0 degrees C, if ever, but in a Motorhome it is quite common in winter or can be. So if Sollatek use a processor it has to be capable of -15 deg C operation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 I have no immediate plans to fit any safety device but looking at the space I have in the locker, it would be preferable to hard wire the Sollatek just inboard of the incoming 240 volt socket. This would give protection toall of the system (as previously stated). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Ian. Many thanks for the info re Sollatek. Our van has CBE equipment for charging /12V supply, but the idea of a surge protector at the mains entry point seems highly logical. I've e-mailed them for info on operating temperature range and use in a vehicle. Excellent information, and well found! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cviclark Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Hi I am waiting for the same information Brambles asked. Another point worth noting is that all traditional smoothing circuits and filters filter the noise to earth. Military radio vehicles have earth spikes connected, motorhomes do not and if they did camp sites would not like our meathod of "splashing the earth". When generators are used earths are needed as thay are very noisey (electric noise). When was the last time you checked the earth on a hook up. I suspect over/under voltage is more of a threat than spikes. The Sollatek is designed to protect fridges, a/c and computers so I suspect it will be rugged enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundowner Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 On investigating our recently acquired Adria Compact (09 'plate), I find it has an EBL 226 Elektroblok, with a small sticker attached saying + OVP. I cannot investigate further without disconnecting the battery, but think that I can reasonably assume that there in fact is an OVB device lurking somewhere down below. I have not so far spotted anything about it in the paperwork, so do not know if it is standard 'spec or an extra fitted when new. I suspect that it is fitted as standard, and just adds to my opinion that Adria are one of the best 'vans on the market. Sundowner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I emailed Schaudt asking them if there was still a problem with newer Elektroblocks. This is the reply:- Dear Customer , thank you for your mail. When you use a generator of you use any ferry mains supply, it could happen that there are spikes or overvoltages in the mains.This could be dangerous for the EBL. The charging module will be defect after a mains problem, like this. To protect the charger in the EBL we recommend the OVP 01.Please see some details in the attachment. They also send a pdf which I have uploaded here:- http://www.lanweb.plus.com/NL20060804b%20-%20OVP%2001_EN.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Brian Kirby - 2011-02-19 7:05 PM Ian. Many thanks for the info re Sollatek. Our van has CBE equipment for charging /12V supply, but the idea of a surge protector at the mains entry point seems highly logical. I've e-mailed them for info on operating temperature range and use in a vehicle. Excellent information, and well found! Sollatek have now replied to my query saying the AVS30 unit is suitable for use at "normal" European ambient temperatures (which was the way I phrased the question) and is also suitable for use in a road vehicle. They added that units are presently in use in Africa.Not sure it is a substitute for the Schaudt item in vans equipped with the Elektroblock, because there is no comeback on Schaudt if their OVP unit is not used.However, as it would protect all 230V supplied equipment in a van, including anything you plug in, and has up to 30A capacity, for the money, for vans not Elektroblock equipped, it looks a worthwhile buy if using EHU.Obtainable via Amazion direct from Sollatek, £62.50 delivered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Brain. I am afraid though, 'normal' european temperatures does not really answer the question they are suitable at sub zero temperatures, which undoubtably for many they will get if holidaying in the winter around europe. Think we need them to be more specific. If someone hard wired one in and sufferred extreme cold on a winter holiday and the device did not power up the electrics the user would be pretty miffed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Brambles - 2011-02-21 8:27 PM Brain. I am afraid though, 'normal' european temperatures does not really answer the question they are suitable at sub zero temperatures, which undoubtably for many they will get if holidaying in the winter around europe. Think we need them to be more specific. If someone hard wired one in and sufferred extreme cold on a winter holiday and the device did not power up the electrics the user would be pretty miffed. Agreed Jon. I paraphrased my own question too hard! What I actually asked was: "Temperature range. There is no indication what the operating temperature range for the AVS30 is but, inside an unoccupied motorhome, it would be subject to more or less UK/European ambient temperatures. Can you please confirm either that the unit is suitable for such use, or specify its safe operating temperature range?"What they said in reply was: “Yes it can withstand UK/European ambient temp range. This device is used in Africa as well.”I take ambient to encompass the full winter/summer taem ranges. Hope I'm right, because I've bought one! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Hi agian Brian. Unfortunately , and it mist be the suto design enmgineer in me, europpean temperatire range is pretty wide. Our products had to be tested to teh ectended suto temperatire ragnge of -40 deg C to + 125 deg.C. Now whilst this is obviously much wider a range than we would see the -25 to +70 may not be far off what is required.I now go and grab my folder on temperature specs to double check figures......... Commercial (0° to +70°C)Industrial (–40°C to + 85°C)Military (–55°C to +125°C)Automotive (–40°C to +125°C)All temperatures are specified as ambient. I shall leave you to work out what temperature range you think you need but commercial is to me not good enough. The main thing of concern is because it has microprocessor control in the unit. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cviclark Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Hi Brian After a chat with the engineer at Sollatek I have just placed an order as well. I intend to fit it next to the trip and distribution panel. At 30A current load will not be an issue. The AVS 30 is in commercial use in many parts of the world that suffer worse conditions than I hope ever to experience so I am confident it will be up to the task. Like insurance it is peace of mind that I hope I never need to put to the test.It was nice to be able to speak to the "techy" resposible for developing these units. The point about a good earth return is important. I suspect Electroblock problems are as much to do with poor earth returns as anything else. I worked as a computer engineer in central London during the power strikes of the early 80`s. Mains outage and fluctuations play havoc with modern PSU`s in computers, TV`s and most domestic appliances and led to a whole industry designing and fitting uninteruptable power supplies. The AVS 30 is designed to protect the mains supply to whole blocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Brambles - 2011-02-22 12:13 AM Hi agian Brian. Unfortunately , and it mist be the suto design enmgineer in me, europpean temperatire range is pretty wide. Our products had to be tested to teh ectended suto temperatire ragnge of -40 deg C to + 125 deg.C. Now whilst this is obviously much wider a range than we would see the -25 to +70 may not be far off what is required. I now go and grab my folder on temperature specs to double check figures..... .... Commercial (0° to +70°C) Industrial (–40°C to + 85°C) Military (–55°C to +125°C) Automotive (–40°C to +125°C) All temperatures are specified as ambient. I shall leave you to work out what temperature range you think you need but commercial is to me not good enough. The main thing of concern is because it has microprocessor control in the unit. . We are, of course, a bit south of you, and rarely see temperatures much below -5oC, even this last winter. Don't use the van in winter, but keep it on hook-up, usually with a small greenhouse heater inside, so the interior should always be above external ambient. Even in summer, and travelling south, I have never (yet!) experienced as high as 40oC, with just a few forays into the low 30s.The unit would be mounted in the van, which is insulated, so it should avoid the worst of the extremes, and I would not expect worse than a range from -10oC to +40oC. So, if the unit is good for the normal European ambient range of somewhere around -25oC to +40oC, but is also used in (unspecified latitudes) Africa, I'm guessing it will be OK in practise, as we use our van. After all, the worst that can happen is that it will fail and, if it does, I shall take it out of circuit and return it. If they then say it failed because it had been exposed to temperatures outside its designed operating range, I shall be miffed but, ultimately, I shall only have lost my £62.50, and I shan't buy another! If it does work as claimed, it just may save us having to replace a power pack, fridge controls, or phone, camera, or laptop, chargers. All pretty unlikely I think, but for the price, and because we have hooked up to some rather "eccentric" power supplies from time to time - and sat through a few quite exciting thunder storms - the cost seems to me worth the gamble. Time will tell! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Brian Kirby - 2011-02-21 10:58 PM .............I take ambient to encompass the full winter/summer temp ranges. Hope I'm right, because I've bought one! :-) Bought via Amazon Monday, arrived today. Owzat! The Sollatek AVS30 looks good, and all parameters: high voltage limit (260V default; range 230V - 300V + OFF), low voltage limit (190V default; range 150V - 230V), "blind" time (3 sec default; range 0.5 sec - 10 sec + OFF), and disconnect time (3 mins default; range 10 sec - 10 min + MAN), are all easily user adjustable. 2 year manufacturer warranty.Well finished, solid feeling case, nice, robust, fully shrouded, terminals inside. All I've got to do now is fit it! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Good show Brian, I might have to look into taking this on as a product to be fitted :D . D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cviclark Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Hi I have just got my AVS and started to fit it. Took pics of distribution before I started. When reconnecting I noticed the connections to the top of the trip switch looked reversed. The input to the trip is marked 1 and N ouput 2 & N my live was connected to the N (RHside). I disconnected the EB and made sure nothing was switched on and connected up the live to 1 and neutral to to N. The tester showed polarity reversal at the internal sockets. Tested all the way back to the mains in from the trip OK so connected up the way it was and it tested out OK at the sockets (still looks wrong). However by this time it was dark. When reconnected my EB and switched on my cab light I could hear the EB singing (like a mossy). My cab light is fitted with a new type LED low wattage light. Switched this off and a normal MR11 on and no noise. The EB is normally buried in a cupboard so I would not have heard the whine in normal use and I have used these lights for over a year. The AVS is fine but could this Electroblock problem be caused by people using LED lights? I bought mine at a Motorhome show last year. I know they a basically transistors but very low power. Neither the OVP or AVS would protect the EB from this. Not sure if I should carry on using the lights or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 Hi, did you have any other loads on the EB such as battery so it was charging or other lights which where filament or high frequency flurosecent. Wondering if the LED lights where the only load the EB was dricing and being such low power the swicth modepower supply would only need to pulse at a much slower rate and becoming audible from any inductors or transfomer coils in the output/control circuitry. The reversed polarity, sounds like to correct a reversal in wiring elsewhere someone has corrected at the trip switch. Maybe you will find all sockets are wired reversed. You know what you are doing so just conversing rather than trying to give tips. Hard to see how an led light could blow the Electroblock. Be interesting to see if you get same effect with much larger loads applied, but could be tied in with the LED lamp taking pulses of curremt to operate and there is a harmonic problem with the swithed mode output of the EB. If you have and can, try putting a large capacitor across the supply to the LED lamp at the lamp end to try and smooth any pulses of current drawn. Ideally you need a choke/inductor in series with the supply before the cap to create a proper filter. I suspect you know what I mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cviclark Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Hi I have finished installing the AVS. It does look as if the trip switch is wired in reversed. At the input Blue goes to 1, Brown to N. At the output N goes to all the Browns 2 goes to all the Blue's. This may be to save crossing over the short links at the output of the trip to the distribution block where black goes to blue and blue goes to brown. The polarity at all the outputs and inputs is correct. I do not want to disturb all the distribution wiring but may switch inputs and outputs at the trip switch although it works fine the way it is and there is no evidence of any changes since manufacture. The reason I wired the AVS to the input side of the trip was that I thought the space between the output of the trip and the distribution block too tight. All the hook-ups I have ever used have been current protected by either a trip or fuse. The EB only sings when the LED lights are used on hook up. When used on just batteries it is silent. This is one reason why I have only just noticed it. I am sure I heard it once last summer but put it down to the light not the EB. On hook-up I tend to use a normal table lamp as it gives a nicer light so if I had not disconnected the EB to test the rest of the circuits would not have noticed it. The normal MR11, G4 bulbs are fine on hook up. I may be worrying unduly but I am refitting the old bulbs until I get reassurance from Aten lighting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cviclark Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Hi Brambles Batteries would have been on charge but nothing else. It only sings on hook-up. It does not sing with MR11 or G4 on hook-up but still sings with both LED and MR11. I have stopped using them untill the manufacturers advise me they are OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Hi Cviclark. I would really wire the AVS to the output of the trip switch. Main reason being you and any future owner will know switching the trip off completely isolates the electrics. Also for the Electroblock your trip is now no longer in the circuit to isolate it. If I was doing an electrical safety check I would reject it on safety grounds as the trip no longer protects all electrical equipment on board. Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cviclark Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Hi In an ideal world so would I but there is not enough room between the output of the trip and the distribution block to fit two insulated 2.5mm wires. It may be possible if I drop to 1.5 mm but still tight. The trip islolates the whole van, including the Electroblock, except the AVS30 which is protected by the hook-up fuse or trip. If I sell the van the AVS will not be in it. If I want to isolate the mains I pull the plug at the hook up. The trip is rated at 13A and does seem to be wired in reversed, I guess because of the lack of space, but I know it trips at about 13A (water heater, kettle and toaster)so intend to leave it the way it was made. I can send you pics if you let me know your e-mail address PS the AVS is between the hook-up and the trip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Hi. Oh yes please, we all love pictures on the forums. Speak a thousand words. I'll drop you PM with email address and if you are are ok with I will post in this thread. You could actually do yourself but everyome seems to have problems 1st time. When you write a reply to post you click attach file. Pics need to be under 100KBytes in size and this is what confuses people. Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 Brambles - 2011-02-27 3:45 PM Hi Cviclark. I would really wire the AVS to the output of the trip switch. Main reason being you and any future owner will know switching the trip off completely isolates the electrics. Also for the Electroblock your trip is now no longer in the circuit to isolate it. If I was doing an electrical safety check I would reject it on safety grounds as the trip no longer protects all electrical equipment on board. Jon. I case it is of interest, I contacted Sollatek and asked where, in their opinion, the AVS30 unit should be installed in a van. Their reply was between the RCD main switch and the MCBs, for exactly the reason Jon points out above.I also asked whether it was polarity sensitive, in view of the number of continental pillars that reverse live and neutral, and the difficulty of telling if this is the case before making the connection. Their reply was that it is not polarity sensitive, and will work normally with polarity reversed. They added a concern that where polarity is reversed, if distribution circuits are only protected by single pole breakers, parts of circuits could be live even after the breaker had tripped. That is not a Sollatek related issue, but seems worth stating in case anyone may have lost sight of the potential risk. Our van is all DP switched on RCD and MCBs, so is "polarity blind". And I haven't fitted my Sollatek yet, I'm still looking at it! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Brambles - 2011-03-01 10:49 PM You could actually do yourself but everyome seems to have problems 1st time. When you write a reply to post you click attach file. Pics need to be under 100KBytes in size and this is what confuses people. Jon. Just to add to Jon's note: What really had me going when I first tried uploading photos was, if the file is a bit bigger than 100k you get a message telling you it's too big BUT if if is a really large file you get a "Server error message" that had tearing my hair out for a couple weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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