Brian Kirby Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 For those of you who may have forgotten, or even didn't know, if your vehicle is over 3.5 tonnes (3,500kg) MAM, or if the combined MAMs of your vehicle and any trailer (so virtually all motorhomes towing anything!) exceed 3.5 tonnes, different speed limits apply in France.Specifically:90KPH max on autoroutes, whether toll or otherwise, and on dual carriageways with central reservation.80 KPH elsewhere, including dual carriageways with no central reservation and roads painted with alternate overtaking lanes - unless subject to lower limit .50KPH in built up areas, except the Paris peripherique where the limit is 80KPH.In fog with visibility of 50 metres or less, an absolute limit of 50KPH applies on all roads, without exception.If your vehicle-trailer combination has an MAM exceeding 12 tonnes, the limit is 60KPH on non-priority roads (but remains 80KPH on designated priority roads - presumably the green E roads). This limit applies also to articulated vehicles exceeding 12 tonnes MAM, which will presumably affect few motorhomers - unless they are following the artic'! :-)Do not expect to see these limits indicated at the roadside, they are for you, and the police, to know. :-DThere is no upward tolerance on French speed limits, they are absolute limits. French police with radar guns hide! Oncoming motorists will usually flash headlights to warn others of radar traps. Happy travels! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Brian Kirby - 2011-01-25 12:56 PM except the Paris peripherique where the limit is 80KPH.There is no upward tolerance on French speed limits, they are absolute limits. Unless you are a Taxi Driver (He. He.) French police with radar guns hide! Oncoming motorists will usually flash headlights to warn others of radar traps. But in the UK, expect a fine. A local driver fined £400 for flashing to warn oncoming vehicles. Police procecuted on the grounds that he obstructed officers carrying-out their duty. (it has gone to appeal) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dikyenfo Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 You give a timely reminder and I have put the limits at the back of the trailer and the different ones when solo on the MH. This is probably regs in France anyway but does stop any arguements with the flics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corky 8 Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Timely reminder, Thank you Brian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Anne Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Thanks for the reminder and information Brian. Would you advise that we display the speed limit stickers on the rear of our vehicles as per the foreign HGVs. i.e (90) (80) and (50)? Just in case the police over there are extra critical of the legalities of UK vehicles. Thanks, John & Anne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wirralian Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 I drove the length of France last week (now in Spain) and I noted how the French really do keep to the speed limit these days (execpt the white van man!) There is now a lot of 30 kmp through villages and you needn't worry about your motorhome holding anyone up behind as they are all travelling at the same pace as you. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyfletcher Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Hi, We use the 6" 80 & 90 stickers when towing the car behind for that very reason, although I am running out of metal on the tailgate for displaying the 50 sticker on the n/s of the vehicle. I already have 2 6" Red Triangles and a Large Yellow retangle sticker saying 'Towing' Phew! I think I have remembered everything! Cheers Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poursay Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Hi Brian and followers Your figures do not appear to agree with the Caravan Club's figures. For non-towing vans over 3.5tonnes they say the autoroute max is 110kph, on dual carriageways 100kph and single carriageways 80 kph. The figures for vans with trailers are as you state. I obtained the various stickers last year and have them adorning my van Regards Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 26, 2011 Author Share Posted January 26, 2011 Poursay - 2011-01-25 8:22 PM Hi Brian and followers Your figures do not appear to agree with the Caravan Club's figures. For non-towing vans over 3.5tonnes they say the autoroute max is 110kph, on dual carriageways 100kph and single carriageways 80 kph. The figures for vans with trailers are as you state. I obtained the various stickers last year and have them adorning my van Regards Mike The limits I quote above were published in the French motorhome magazine Le Monde du Camping-Car, edition 228 S, February 2011. They quote from Décret 2009-754, of July 2008. I checked this at legifrance.gouv.fr: the relevant item can be found here: http://tinyurl.com/46dhe6kYou'd have to draw this to the attention of the Caravan Club, and ask if the advice you have from them is still current. I believe what I posted is a) the latest and b) is correct, subject to my understanding of the French. Note that "poids total autorisé en charge" or PTAC means MAM, and "poids total roulant autorisé" or PTRA means gross train weight (GTW). Also note that actual laden weights do not count, it is the plated weights that are taken into account. Further note that "véhicules de transport en commun" means goods vehicles, which does not include motorhomes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hopesy Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Thanks Brian, I'm getting a towbar fitted and will be towing a motorcycle trailer so thid focused my thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Thank you Brian, I'm grateful for your update. I was not aware of the rider re foggy conditions. Tks again. Stuart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 27, 2011 Author Share Posted January 27, 2011 One other think I came across later, is that vehicles towing trailers are not allowed into the third lane of three lane dual carriageways, whether autoroutes or (as I understand it) not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Thanks Brian for the updade, yes we have had reports of weighing of motorhomes in France enroute to the winter sun in Spain, Yes be extra carful as Brian points out on motorways on outside lane (left side) and also some small towns/villages do now not allow towing through some of their streets at certain times of the day, Be careful out there, fuel is good, and enjoy, Regards, Brendan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poursay Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Hi Brian I will take the disparity up with the CC. With regards to vehicules with trailers not allowed into the o/s lane, is this a recent change? My brother has a Honda Goldwing and tows a trailer with his camping stuff in. Obviously in the UK he is limited to the inner 2 lanes, but wasn't sure in France. Last summer I asked at the local gendarmerie if he could use any lane and was told it wasn't a problem. I also asked a gendarme in our village in France ( we have a second home out there), He didn't knew (!!!) but would let me know if it was a problem. As he didn't get back to me I assumed it was Ok and advised brother accordingly. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vernon B Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Brian I've long learnt to open your posts and gather a pearl of wisdom or two but on this occasion it took a few days for the penny to drop. Perhaps it was my pre-occupation with frozen pipes or your understated title for the thread that led me into missing the implications of what this means. Perhaps the headline - "The French Go Slow!" or "Add Another Day If You're Going To Spain!" may have been more eye catching and certainly more appropriate. For those like me with a mh a tad over 3.5t, who also missed the point, we're talking here, in really money, of a reduction in auto-route maximum speeds for 3.5t+ vehicles of almost 20% - from 68mph to 55mph! Now with the general increase in fuel prices and the fall in the £ to the euro we ain't about to go full throttle from Calais to Perpignan but neither did we expect to have to travel at a funeral pace while our puny sub 3.5t friends "Clarkson it along" at 80! Strikes me we need to start using a bit of French muscle and blockade the A1 out of Paris. Anyone else up for it? V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith T Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 One question though - since so many motorhome can be identical externally and the only difference is the weight, which will often depend on what engine etc you have optioned- how will a camera (or even the gendarme) know what yours is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 28, 2011 Author Share Posted January 28, 2011 Poursay - 2011-01-28 3:06 PM Hi Brian I will take the disparity up with the CC. With regards to vehicules with trailers not allowed into the o/s lane, is this a recent change? ............Mike Short answer, Mike: don't know. Same source as the speed limits, and I assume they check their sources. What they said about the speed limits appears to have been accurate. It is a reasonably authoritative mag, and it is their language, their law, and their country, so they should be reliable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 28, 2011 Author Share Posted January 28, 2011 Vernon B - 2011-01-28 3:30 PM Brian .............Perhaps the headline - "The French Go Slow!" or "Add Another Day If You're Going To Spain!" may have been more eye catching and certainly more appropriate. For those like me with a mh a tad over 3.5t, who also missed the point, we're talking here, in really money, of a reduction in auto-route maximum speeds for 3.5t+ vehicles of almost 20% - from 68mph to 55mph! Now with the general increase in fuel prices and the fall in the £ to the euro we ain't about to go full throttle from Calais to Perpignan but neither did we expect to have to travel at a funeral pace while our puny sub 3.5t friends "Clarkson it along" at 80! ............V :-D Like us, you mean, Vernon? However, it does seem to me to bring into question the not inconsiderable cost of using autoroutes with vans charged Class 3 if over 3.5 tonnes (or over 3.0 metres tall), or class 4 if over 3.5 tonnes (or more than two axles), and towing a trailer. Paying for Class 2 is bad enough!Might be better to just accept the lower speed, trundle down the D roads for free, and enjoy the countryside, villages, and towns as you go! Autoroutes at 65/70 MPH are boring enough on long runs, but at 55MPH?? I'd be asleep within yards!! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 28, 2011 Author Share Posted January 28, 2011 Keith T - 2011-01-28 4:00 PM One question though - since so many motorhome can be identical externally and the only difference is the weight, which will often depend on what engine etc you have optioned- how will a camera (or even the gendarme) know what yours is? Any "regular" motorhome (like yours - at 3,400kg) plus a trailer (minimum plated trailer weight, I think, 750kg) will gross over 3.5 tonnes (in your case 4,150kg, so well over): they won't need scales to see the trailer! Engine size won't make any difference to MAM, the extra weight comes out of your payload! Very few vans significantly under 7.0 metres long will be on a "heavy" chassis. So, Brit registered 7.0+ metre van heading south in winter? You don't need a PHD to think it may be over 3.5 tonnes MAM, so when cruising the autoroutes on a "quiet" day you may just clock its speed, and then pull it into the next aire to check the VIN plate. If the plate says more than 3,500kg you get fined - or possibly cautioned if you act nicely and speak politely (in French, of course). However, if you're feeling lucky, try it on - but do let us know the outcome! As you suggest, the risk of being caught is not high. Besides, I'm merely pointing out the risk, not dictating how anyone should react to the knowledge! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Yes I am afraid they do pull you in and weigh you with portable drive on weighing systems. You may just get pulled in a little quicker if you are towing and do pass on the outside lane at speed, Regards, Brendan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith T Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Brian - my question related to a motorhome only (ie not with trailer)....mine is in fact plated at 3500, and I should not therefore be affected by the changes. what I was wondering is how they know if it is say 3.5t, or as many of similar models now seem to be 3.8t or even 4t plated? It seems more and more commmon - no doubt to allow some margin for personal items and even a passenger in some case, that they need to be based on a heavier chassis with the extra weight limits. For me max 3.5t has to be( and indeed is) adequate due to age!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 29, 2011 Author Share Posted January 29, 2011 Keith T - 2011-01-29 11:03 AM Brian - my question related to a motorhome only (ie not with trailer)....mine is in fact plated at 3500, and I should not therefore be affected by the changes. what I was wondering is how they know if it is say 3.5t, or as many of similar models now seem to be 3.8t or even 4t plated? It seems more and more commmon - no doubt to allow some margin for personal items and even a passenger in some case, that they need to be based on a heavier chassis with the extra weight limits. For me max 3.5t has to be( and indeed is) adequate due to age!!! They will not "know", unless they pull you over, but if they do, they will know instantly and incontrovertibly from the VIN plate on the vehicle. My van, as yours, is 3,500kg MAM, and does not run overloaded, so it does not affect me either way. I am merely trying to ensure that as many folk as possible are forewarned, as clearly and authoritatively as possible. Then they can make their own decisions as to what they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vernon B Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Hi Brian. Harking back to your notion of trundling along D roads as an antidote to lower speed limits and higher tolls I would draw attention ( even to those driving sub 3.5t vehicles) that it is no longer the pleasure it used to be for two principal reasons. Firstly you'll find that negotiating the French traffic calming measures in every small town and village a nightmare. Secondly if you did decide to use these or even N routes as a means of travelling through France your chances of finding conveniently (and open) service areas is, let's say, problematical. So all in all the French authorities are making a pretty good job of getting us off their roads. Wonder what their motor industry thinks of that. Man the barricades! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 30, 2011 Author Share Posted January 30, 2011 I have to say, Vernon, that I haven't found the traffic calming that problematic to date, maybe because we are only 6M long and 2.07M wide. You do need to slow down, but the French generally do so as well, so no real hold-ups, and I like the break in monotony from passing through the smaller towns and villages. Not sure what you mean by "services". The "aires de services camping-car" (water and dump, mostly with overnight parking facilities) are mostly in the sticks, so presumably not them? Our fuel etc is generally bought from supermarkets, of which most in rural areas have been Intermarche. Nearly all small towns have at least one, but they also lurk handily on the periphery of the larger towns, usually off the by-pass in a "centre commercial". We usually do about 250 miles between fills, refilling at 50% empty, and there's always been a "super" somewhere down the road. You do travel more slowly, but I like the views, interruptions, unexpected finds etc and we aren't hurrying, so it suits us fine, and is so much cheaper than the toll roads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vernon B Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Brian if you have it take a look at "Pedestrians Rule In France" page 66 CC Magazine February. It looks as if they've found more ways of keeping you awake on those side roads. V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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