CPeachey Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I have an 05 Trigano Tribute with the leisure battery under the passenger seat. I want to add a second battery and put both of them in the under-seat locker behind the passenger seat. I don't really want to use "battery boxes" but cannot seem to find any other hardware that I could use to stop the batteries moving about. The floor of the locker is the standard plywood. Any suggestions from any of you who may have done something similar please? Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Screw timber batterns to the floor to securely locate the batteries and use synthetic ratchet straps to hold them down. Make sure you provide proper venting provision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPeachey Posted February 7, 2011 Author Share Posted February 7, 2011 The locker is not airtight as you can see daylight around the door when it's closed. Is that likely to be enough ventilation or do I need something larger? I plan to use the usual "sealed for life" type batteries, not the sort that need topping up occasionally. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 It should be fine, as long as you don't mind your van becoming filled with Hydrogen Gas. Which by the way is explosive. Your call. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I used the straps Clive refers to and as battery is under bed managed to secure it against bed feet. Has anybody ever measured how much hydrogen gas comes off a battery and would it be in such a volume to fill a van? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Proper ventilation is important. Best to use batteries with a cell top manifold that has a fitting for a plastic hose and put a hole through the floor for the hose. C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 You could use a storage box with lid and put the batteries in that - much safer as you are not likely to knock or touch the leads with anything else you may store under there (don't forget the vent pipes though), and if a problem occurs with a battery and it overflows for some reason, it will all be contained in the storage box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPeachey Posted February 7, 2011 Author Share Posted February 7, 2011 The battery supplied as new with the van is mounted under the passenger seat and therefore vents into the airspace around the seat and into the habitation area. If the gases were to be expelled outside the vehicle a completely different arrangement would be needed. The new position of the batteries will be only 12" behind the current position and any ventilation will be into the same airspace. If this is unsatisfactory then ALL Tributes would seem to have a problem? Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Are you saying that your current leisure battery does NOT have a vent pipe then? If so, I assume it is the sort that doesn't need one??? It might help to say exactly what battery you have. :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Collings Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Hydrogen readily ignites over a very wide range of concentrations, much wider than most gasses. The hint of battery acid also given off in charging is unpleasant catching most people in the back of the throat. A vent pipe direct from batterythrough the floor is usually effective. All it needs is a spark from static electricity to give an uplifting experience. Effective ventilation of a battery compartment is essential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPeachey Posted February 8, 2011 Author Share Posted February 8, 2011 The existing battery is a "Squadron dual purpose marine & leisure" "flooded" type. There is definitely no provision for ventilation so presumably does not require it. If the new batteries I buy do require ventilation then I will need to drill a hole through the floor for a vent pipe. Thanks for all your imput. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallii Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 I will repeat what I said in an earlier post, that I have seen a wall of a battery room blown out by a hydrogen explosion. I have also been in a "Gemini" style boat when the battery compartment exploded blowing the glass fibre compartment to pieces. Proper vent pipe through the floor, i makes sense! H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPeachey Posted February 8, 2011 Author Share Posted February 8, 2011 I will fit a vent pipe then regardless of what type of battery I get. I have been quoted....85 amp Bosch £75.01 +vat and 110 amp £95.00 + vat from a local dealer. Is this a reasonable price or would I do better waiting till I go to the Peterborough show in April? Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 For the record my original "leasure" battery installed under the passenger seat has a vent tube but doesnt vent to outside air :-S I recently fitted an additional battery that didnt have a vent tube so presumably is fully sealed. If its as dangerous as some earlier posts say to fit a battery without venting outside then how can a major manufacturer get away with installing in this way ? or is the danger of unvented being somewhat exagerated ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod_vw Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 There seems to be a lot of panic about the Hydrogen given off by a vehicle battery. YES Hydrogen gas is explosive but as someone has asked how much does a battery in normal use give off? You may recall that the Volkswagen Beetle was the most produced single model car ever. Those that are old enough may also recall that the Volkswagen Beetle is virtually air tight. An old advert promoted this by indicating that you must open a window to close a door! All Volkswagen Beetles had the battery under the rear seat with NO ventilation. I have been a Volkswagen enthusiast since 1968 and have never heard of one exploding or injuring its passengers by way of a battery problem so my advice is please stop worrying about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 O/k we'll all block off our vents then and when someone has an explosion they will say they did it at your recomendation. Then subsequently sue you for damages. You need to be careful what you recomend on a public forum for this very reason. As some fool will believe you and do it. As an aside Hydrogen is also very corrosive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod_vw Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Peter, I'm talking about over seventy years of motoring history. Yes I know anything can happen but experience has shown...... I leave it to all of you to decide what to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 I know what you mean Rod. Just because something has never happened it doesn't mean it never will. I just wouldn't want to be blamed when it does. I have seen a battery blow and it aint a pretty sight, especially in a confined area like a M/H or Boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCC Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I seem to remember that the floor under the battery in the VW Beetle tended to rust leading to the battery dropping out. Maybe a result of the corrosive quality of hydrogen but it did create a vent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I love it when you get the blind lead the seeing. I have never seen light, therefore light does not exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCC Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Don't believe everything you see in adverts. I've managed to close the door of a VW Beetle without opening a window. I don't think it was anything to do with super-human strength. And if you think that Cheryl Cole's hair looks the way it does entirely because she uses a certain shampoo, I'm afraid to tell you that it's not actually her own hair - she's famous for spending a fortune on hair extensions. On a more serious note, the VW Beetle battery was only charged when the engine was running. In a motorhome the battery will be hooked up to a charger and can be charging for 24 hours or more while the vehicle is static. This makes gassing a much more serious problem particularly, I believe, as the battery gets older. There may never be a problem but in the same way we have airbags fitted even though we hope never to have an accident, and I carry a fire extinguisher even though I hope never to have a fire, the potential danger of having an unvented battery should at least be considered even if a decision is made to ignore it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 People are happy to drill a hole for an extra security device, why not happy to drill a hole for a vent tube. Numerous people have posted over the years, I have a horrible smell in van, whats wrong? Usually turnes out to be the battery gassing away as it is faulty. Do not think gel sealed cannot gas, when they get old and fail they do through the safety vent. As to the the squadron battery mentioned earlier not having a vent, I suspect it surely does and is vented around the edges of a rectangular plug. If is removed you will see a hole a vent pipe fitting pushes into. It is quite possibe the plugs are actually fitted to seal the battrey during transport and one of the two fitted should be removed before putting into service. edit typos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Brambles - 2011-02-09 12:38 PM I love it when you get the blind lead the seeing. I have never seen light, therefore light does not exist. :-D :-D...I may also be blind, but there do appear to be potential safety issues here.I have two leisure batteries fitted under my passenger seat, they are not vented, BUT are Gel and are Fully Sealed, i.e. they do not vent at all.Edit:though I note Brambles comment posted in parallel aboveI would not like to use batteries for leisure purposes which weren't fully sealed without them being externally vented.The problem seems to be in interpreting the 'blurb' from the manufacturers, where it would appear that some of them use the words "fully sealed" (or sometimes "sealed-for-life") not to actually mean that, but rather that they cannot be opened up for topping-up and maintenance (i.e. they still vent). OTOH, the vehicle battery is under the driver's seat, and I have no idea as to whether that is fully sealed, or externally vented, as it is completely obscured by a cover and the seat swivel. I'll just have to assume that Ford know what they are doing :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 A lot of people seem to miss the fact fully sealed leisure batteries such as Gell and AGM sealed are actually valve regulated lead acid batteries (VRLA). They have a safety valve which maintains the pressure in the battery about 1 atm and this helps reduce any gassing as well as calcium in the plates which results in recombination of the gasses into water. The problem as they age is not all the gasses get recombined and so they gas excessively, and the valve then releases some of the gasses as pressure is increased. The levels of gas produced under normal circumstances are extremely low and under the seat affords enough ventilation. The valve also acts a a flame trap so an external ignition should not cause a battery explosion even though there may be a small explosion of the released gasses. However under fault conditions be it the charger or the battery (usually as it ages) can result in excessive gasses which one would hopefully smell alerting them to a problem. However those gasses could be ignited by a very small spark and in itself could cause extensive damage. One could argue all gel and agm 'sealed' VRLA batteries should be monitored for aging and replaced well before their end of actual possible useful life. This is indeed what exide have issued a warning about with some gel batteries used on medical equipment where they say the batteries must be replaced every two years otherwise there is a risk of explosion. You get away with it in motorhomes because there is reasonable flow of air through the habitation area, but placing a gel in a sealed locker or cupboard is really a no go without adding through airflow by the addition of vents. There is no reason why an adtapter could not be fitted over the valve so any gasses are exhausted via a tube to the outside if used in an unventilated area. However usually the valves sit flush with the casing and make life awkward to do so. Similarly with 'sealed' flooded, one is relying on recombination of gasses and very low level of emitted gasses, but flooded batteries unless AGM VRLA are open vented, however are fitted with a labyrinth of passage ways in the 'sealed' lid so spiilage is avoided if tipped over and also are fitted with a flame arrestor, basically a mesh. There are also sometimes recomination chemicals added to the labyrinth to recombine any gasses back into water making the battery even safer and longer lasting. However they certainly are not shall we say hermitically sealed, and have the same problem, of all battries in when they age the recombination is less effective. We must also always consider fault conditions as well. Your gas bottles are sealed, would you fit them in an unventilated locker? Used puely as an analogy appreciating there are some big differences in gas does tend to leech through materials such as the rubber hoses and regulators. But is it that different when you have a battery leaking very small amounts of hydrogen and oxygen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPeachey Posted February 13, 2011 Author Share Posted February 13, 2011 I am about to buy 2 batteries on-line as no-one local is offering a decent price. Either Tanya or Alpha. Choice is Lucas LX31MF 110Ah (£219.98 delivered) Numax CXV31MF 113Ah (£208.44 delivered) Ultra Plus 120Ah. (cheapest @ £179.98 for 2 delivered) Has anyone an opinion on any of these? Have fitted out the new battery compartment. Will fix a vent tube when I get the new batteries. (The existing battery DOES have a vent pipe but the clamping bar prevent access to it!) Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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