johnsue Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Hi Know there have been previous threads on this subject but we are looking at purchasing the Raleigh Dover EBike. Realise they are top of the range & expensive but are great believers in ' you get what you pay for'. When we are on site we like to use public transport, shanks pony or cycle to get around We saw the the test report in the MMM last July, which gave favourable report & also note there is currently an offer of 15% discount through MMM & www.raleighebike.co.uk. We have also looked at www.poweredbicycles.co.uk which we saw at the Malvern Show last year. Has anyone either bought these bikes or dealt with either of these suppliers? *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 visit the pedelec.co.uk forum for all things E bike... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterrosey Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I tested the Dover in the July 2010 issue (p220) and as a bit of an e-bike sceptic, I have to say I was impressed with it. Really nicely made bit of kit that made long distances shrink. We had it on test for quite a while and on a trip to York rode out to a country pub, had a great meal and then all squabbled over who got to ride it back... Lots of different people rode it (from my 70-year-old plus neighbour to 20 somethings) and everyone liked it. The key thing to look for on e-bikes is to go for a crank-drive system with a decent type of battery (eg Lithium Ion of large capacity). The hub drives are said to be far less efficient. The Panasonic 250W brushless unit (as on the Dover) is said to be the most powerful you can get. On the Dover it was quite a eery feeling - you're not totally aware of the assistance when you're riding it going up hill. Until you switch it off, that is, and suddenly realise you're not as fit as you thought you were! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Hub motor bikes are just as good in there own way and some like our Wispers have a better range and larger capacity batteries then the crank drives. They also have a throttle which allows you to have a rest and still make progress... It is important to test ride the two different systems, they are very different. but in over two year at this I have only been defeated on one hill in Switzerland, but the Panasonic crank drive bikes are better hill climbers, look at the new Kalkhoff range of Panasonic bikes as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Although electric bikes are ludicrously expensive for what they are (motor scooters are about the same price or even cheaper) I might have to resort to buying two due to weight issues on my motorhome. My concern is security. My fear is that even with a sturdy lock they would be easy to steal and my aim of riding them into towns and beaches and leaving them while shopping and swimming might not be feasible. How do you get around the security issues? Do users leave their bikes while out and about or are they just too valuable to leave unattended. I've looked at the Pedelec forum but nothing much about security seems to be discussed other than a few posts about stolen bikes turning up on ebay and removing the battery. With regard to the original post there is not much of a choice with Raleigh bikes. I am in the early stages of research and don't know much about them yet. But it seems to my inexperienced eye that there are better bikes out there for the money than Raleigh's such as the Giant Twist Express (also 26v) for example which are half the price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 The Giant twist is not that popular, and a low powered 24V hub motor bike? completely different then a Raleigh/Panasonic driven bike? most decent hub motor bikes are 36V and this is essential for decent performance. If you have decided on a Panasonic crank drive look at Kalkhoff and the more sporting E Motion range of bikes..... Use the search facility on pedelec? you will find lots on security and recommended locks. I use my bike all the time and use 2 good locks but at the end of the day you need decent insurance! If you can be bothered to remove the battery the bike is more or less valueless as most of the cost of a decent e bike is in the battery? so resale of an e bike without a battery or charger is highly suspicious, so not worth it to the average bike thief..... you just need to use your head and if an area looks dodgy you move somewhere else, and try and lock it up in full view and away from the road side (to prevent vans with power tools getting to it) I also have a tamper alarm that is loud and useful if within earshot and should put of inquisitive kids tampering with it.....I live in south London and use the bike most days and on my second model without incident you will be better of with a tow bar rack and a heavy, top quality motorbike lock (almax) as well. they need to be 19mm to defeat croppers so not practical for cycling use at the end of the day e bikes are expebsive mainly because of the batteries? but a far nicer leisure activuity then a noisey smelly petrol scooter *-) and you stikll get excercise and feel like you are acheivibng something after a nice trip out...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manu Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Hi Judge...as you seem to be in the know about this subject can i ask why you are on your second bike ? Was it just an upgrade or was a previous one a failure or even a letdown ? Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Manu - 2011-02-12 11:53 AM Hi Judge...as you seem to be in the know about this subject can i ask why you are on your second bike ? Was it just an upgrade or was a previous one a failure or even a letdown ? Phil I bought a second hand wisper and had it for a year just to see if e biking was for me........When my wife wanted one as well, I upgraded to the latest version of the wisper 905 SE. I did have a problem with the first bike and the second, but this is the thing with e bikes...Buy from a reputable manufacturer like Wisper who offer great back up and support. They fixed my problems efficiently (they have a good dealer network) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manu Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Thanks Judge....experience of new technology counts for everything over a salesmans natter. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phill Fougere Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Hi Folks, I tried to buy a Raleigh Dover e-bike thru the MMM channel on the web with the 15% discount. No luck! I could get all the way thru the online shopping system only to find that there was nil stock. I made a phone call to check when stock would be available and was told that the Raleigh Dover was not available for sale online as it was "Too Complex". As the MMM 15% discount is only available for online sales, no can do! Sounds like a weasel trick to me. I did a bit of research and found that Kalkhoff Agattu is the same bike sold for two hundred pounds cheaper. Phill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 This is proving to be an extremely expensive bike ride. 2x bikes say £3000 1x towbar £350 1x Thule e Bike £350 Rack with ramp 1x lock £50 1x bike cover £40 Insurance ???? Total £3790+ insurance. I can't justify this. Cheaper bikes ......possibly such as Powacycle X24 but still expensive. Back to the drawing board for me. Incidentally Judge the Pedelec search function is un unusable as you have to enter letters and digits to gain access and they are unreadable (for me at least). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsue Posted February 12, 2011 Author Share Posted February 12, 2011 Note your comments Phill about trying to buy the Raleigh Dover on line, that's interesting. We were going to contact them direct to see if we could have a trial to ensure it is what we want. When we looked at it online the Unisex showed as in stock but not the gents however didn't actually try to buy. Maybe we will look at the Kalkhoff Agatta. I guess this is a German frame same as the Raleigh Dover. Did you see this on line? We didn't find the Pedelec site too user friendly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 john&sue - 2011-02-12 5:17 PM Maybe we will look at the Kalkhoff Agatta. I guess this is a German frame same as the Raleigh Dover. they are the same bike more or less from the same manafacturer Derby cycles owners of Raleigh. Kalkhoff available in the UK (german brand) from 50 cycles. links to all thes firms on pedelec? Cant imagine what you mean with your critism of the site, it is a brilliant information hub for all things e bikes witn some expert contributers that will save you a fortune, and stop you wasting your money on the rubbish you can buy from shows and some bike shops*-) http://www.50cycles.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Mike88 - 2011-02-12 4:14 PM I can't justify this. Cheaper bikes ......possibly such as Powacycle X24 but still expensive. Back to the drawing board for me. Your loss Mike, we did it bit by bit and so not to much pain. My bike replaced a second car so made economic sense as well. insurance covered by household policy, here and abroad at about £20 per bike, you need to spend more on locks :-S Our holidays are effectively cycling holidays now, e bikes have transformed them, we go out for the day shopping with 4 panniers and the camper hardly moves, visiting beaches, sightseeing in the area, visiting a market you cycle right in! no parking hassle and no cost. In the evening ride out through olive groves to a lovely restaurant, relax and enjoy a meal with a beer and wine and not worry about getting knicked on the journey back...Priceless in our opinion. If only for motorhome trips buy a pair of cheaper decent hub motor bikes from the likes of Alien or Juicy bikes or the X6 the 24 unnescesary.....persvere with pedelec it is worth it we like the wisper range. when it come to ebikes, cheap no good, good no cheap, I'm afraid...... http://www.wisperbikes.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hymer1942 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Hi Judge, nice to see your still very active on here, have you got your new van yet???, we are down in Mojacar southern Spain at a Hymer Rally, but will need to speak to you regarding e Bikes as I think we will go down that road, all the best . Barrie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Mike88 - 2011-02-12 4:14 PM This is proving to be an extremely expensive bike ride. 2x bikes say £3000 1x towbar £350 1x Thule e Bike £350 Rack with ramp 1x lock £50 1x bike cover £40 Insurance ???? Total £3790+ insurance. QUOTE] By way of comparison have you considered a scooter.... Piagio scooter £1200 insurance £ 100 tax £ 12 our scooter carrys two of us no problems (apart from very steep hills) combined weight 23 stone (dont ask me to split it between me and mrs ips :-D ) just a thought... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 hymer1942 - 2011-02-14 10:55 AM Hi Judge, nice to see your still very active on here, have you got your new van yet???, we are down in Mojacar southern Spain at a Hymer Rally, but will need to speak to you regarding e Bikes as I think we will go down that road, all the best . Barrie Hi Barrie hope you are having a nice time....health issues are causing me real problems and have put plans of a change of van and travelling on hold unfortunately *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 ips - 2011-02-14 11:13 AM Mike88 - 2011-02-12 4:14 PM This is proving to be an extremely expensive bike ride. 2x bikes say £3000 1x towbar £350 1x Thule e Bike £350 Rack with ramp 1x lock £50 1x bike cover £40 Insurance ???? Total £3790+ insurance. QUOTE] By way of comparison have you considered a scooter.... Piagio scooter £1200 insurance £ 100 tax £ 12 our scooter carrys two of us no problems (apart from very steep hills) combined weight 23 stone (dont ask me to split it between me and mrs ips :-D ) just a thought... I wish. A scooter is my preferred option. I have owned motorbikes previously so don't have the licence problems to overcome. However, my vehicle is not able to carry a scooter on a rack legally due to various weight issues and I do not want a trailer as I bought a motorhome to get away from towing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 If you upgrade via SV tech (£200 paper excercise) to 3500 kg. and fit air on the back axle (increasing capacity to 2000) Would that not be enough to carry a light scooter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Hi Mike If you have payload problems one of these optios may suit Easylifter - http://www.easylifter.co.uk/hydra-trail.htm "The hydraulic lifting mechanism lowers the rack on to the caster wheel. 85% of the bike weight is now on the trailer wheel and not the vehicle " http://www.cmf-engineering.com/ Motorcycle/Scooter Trailers - Side loading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I have considered this but there are problems due mainly to the fact I have a panel van conversion. A standard towbar allows an axle load of 100kgs according to Fiat and Witter the towbar supplier. I have spoken to several engineering companies and all but one advise against carrying a scooter on my vehicle because that would mean operating my vehicle in an overweight state. (See below). I have been advised to get a trailer/Hydratrail or Ezetow none of which I want. A purpose built towbar will carry more but the towbar itself plus rack weighs about 90 kg plus the lightest 125cc scooter weighs around 110kgs. Carrying an extra 200 kg on the rear axle is a serious amount of weight. A purpose built towbar MIGHT also mean losing the spare wheel. I have even discussed modifying a standard Witter towbar to retain the spare but that did not receive an enthusiastic response. I have Airides on my vehicle already to help with a grounding issue. However, Swift advise that the front axle load in all conditions must be between 40% and 70% of the total weight to ensure adequate road holding and the GVW must not be exceeded. I think I can comply with that.....just The sv tech uprating route is fine for some but you also have to have regard to the vehicle manufacturers recommendations; even if I ignored these sv tech would also require my existing airides to be changed for their approved system. But in view of the information I have received from Swift and various engineering companies it would appear that the weight being added to the rear axle is simply too great for my vehicle. That is why I am looking at e bikes - cheap ones as I will only use them for motorhoming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swiftcruiser Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Like mamy considering an electric bike.Following this post has anyone experience of the cyclamatic 20" wheel folding electric bike, seems very good value, perhaps too good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dream machine Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Cheap junk non descript with a small old technology battery - lithium ion sold only on the internet. As some one who sells electric bikes - if you're going to buy one then buy from an established brand with full technical & spares back up - preferably from a 'Bricks & mortar' Electric bike specialist shop and definately not from Amazon / Ebay / some other general 'net' seller. Even cheap! is not cheap if after 5 minutes you can't get it fixed & have to scrap it because you can't get parts. generally speaking each make has their own parts NOT usually compatable with another. Reputation & quality is everything when buying an E-Bike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 dream machine - 2011-02-15 12:44 AM Cheap junk non descript with a small old technology battery - lithium ion sold only on the internet. As some one who sells electric bikes - if you're going to buy one then buy from an established brand with full technical & spares back up - preferably from a 'Bricks & mortar' Electric bike specialist shop and definately not from Amazon / Ebay / some other general 'net' seller. By cheap I meant under £1000 each as I need two. Can you get anything half decent (light and decent range) for that and if so what do you recommend? Not interested in folders but the above poster will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 but light and cheap dont go together! Cytronex and E Motion are excellent lightish E bikes but not that cheap...... The batteries on a decent bikes are around £500 then you have a motor and a controller and a bike on to of this.... you see kids riding around on £1500-3000 mountain and road race bikes? you get what you pay for :-S I recommended some sub £1000 bikes? Juicy bikes. urban mover. Aien and the X6. have you thought about kits if you have some bikes already? I have started a thread for you on pedelec forum http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bicycles/7646-sub-1000-bikes.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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