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adding 2 stroke to diesel


cyclops2

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Guest pelmetman

Certainly seems like a good idea, I will give it a try in the works van :D

 

Just one question are all 2 stroke oils suitable, as some seem to be synthetic (?)

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I have been doing it for 2 years as well as Eurodiesel additive that the commercials use with cetane additive for more bang for your bucks.

I lost the entire injection and pump on my Iveco caused by the inferior lub of modern diesel so bung that in and dont let it happen to you as it cost me 3500 gbp to replace everything .

I buy mine in bulk from united diesel at about 35 quid for a gallon and at the recommended amount per fill-up, it lasts more than the average season.

In fact it was a timely reminder as I need to order some more and the delivery is carrier to your door in about 3 days. Cheers for that.

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Dave, They seem to be using the u/m stuff at 300mlitres per 70 Litres

API TC JASO FB: Low ash oil for use in 2 stroke mopeds, scooters, motorbikes and other engines requiring an oil which readily mixes with fuel.

I'm going to use it in my 12 year old Transit but not so sure about using it in my modern Fiat multijet with DPF.

 

Pete

 

http://fordtransit.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=79447&start=105

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Guest Tracker

I have severe reservations about adding anything to a modern engine unless the manufacturer says it is OK.

 

Some even preclude the use of bio diesel due to 'incompatibility' - whatever that means?

 

You just don't know what an unspecified chemical will do to fuel system seals which are often made of synthetic materials and subject to very high pressures these days.

 

I wonder what Nick at Euroserve thinks?

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I would love to have the opinion of an expert. Older engines were designed when sulpher was in fuel and gave some lubrication. Modern engines presumably take account of that. However on one of the posts I've read it states that using 2 stroke reduces sooty deposits by 50%. My wee multijet (1248cc) seems to go into DPF cleaning mode quite a lot. Reducing cleaning will increase mpg considerably. I have yet to see a post that says it causes harm

Pete

 

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Be very careful adding anything to your fuel as Tracker points out damage to fuel seals are common,on new high pressure engines.

Using 2 stroke in small amounts may not cause much problems,except it will colour your Derv, now you may have a problem explaining that if stopped for a fuel check.

Regards,

Brendan

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Guest pelmetman

My works van is 12 years old and the camper 21 so I think my vehicles will benefit from 2 stroke :D

I've been reading about this on the transit forum and I've yet to see a negative post, and there are many on there who do a lot of mileage, another plus is the noise reduction B-)

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Fuel manufacturers produce 'premium' fuels as well as their 'normal' ones. None of them, as far as I know add any additional lubricating oil to the fuel.

 

They do add additives of various sorts to improve, for example the cetane rating, reduce fuel consumption and carbon build-up, but not extra oil.

 

Why not?

 

If it was a Good Idea, they would all offer it (perhaps as a premium fuel), or provide the facility to add it at filling stations. They do not.

 

Why not?

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Because the pump runs in the diesel and relies on it for lubrication - this is not good now and the corruption of the injectors caused by the pump wear means that the computer switches all off and cannot be re-set until all new components are restored and this costs 3,500 quid plus other fees having to added from the main depot rip-off.

The full story can be read on united diesels webpage and I have just ordered another 2.5 litres. Regarding the 2-stroke the cheapest is Wilcos but worth looking round.

Mine has gone like a steam train all the time I have had it and passes exhaust gas test no problem.

Having been caught once I dont begrudge a bit extra and fiddling when filling up.

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I think people need to take a step back.

Diesel is itself a lub, and still is, Look at all the diesels that are running all over without 2 stroke or any additive without any problems using good quality diesel.

Yes problems may occur with poor diesel or in fact diesel that has been tampered with, maybe to remove colour additive.

Yes 300Ml of coloured 2 stroke will colour 70l of diesel. So you may have a lot of explaining to do:$

Regards,

Brendan

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Guest pelmetman

Yes they are valid questions, but I am happy to give it a try next time I do a delivery, I've got some 2 stroke in the shed for the strimmer :D

 

I wonder if Flika can add his two pennath worth as he knows his stuff on fuels :D

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Of course the Oil Companies put Lubrication additives into Fuels (Diesel & Petrol) to fill the gap due to the greatly reduced levels of Sulphur allowed by the legislation.

Otherwise we would have seen catostrophic failure rates of older Vehicles.

 

IMO aftersales Additives can be useful in badly worn Engines, but otherwise are a Sales gimmick, based on Users insecurity or feeling of "wellbeing".

How many remember using "Castrol R" in motorbikes, cos we like the smell & memories of the Racetrack (?)

I used to have to strip my brother's Bike Racing Engines, after EVERY race meeting, to clean the "gunk" it left behind, BUT he could not be convinced otherwise as almost everyone else was using it at the time.

 

The "Lubricity" (as it's known) development has evolved constantly to meet each of the Sulphur reductions since 1993 (for what was "Auto-oil Project" major introduction)

Extract from the UKPIA (UK Petroleum Industries Association) website:-

"Sulphur-free Petrol and Diesel

The UK has moved to sulphur-free road fuels. No adjustments to engines are required but find out more about the background to this change. "

http://www.ukpia.com/industry_issues/fuels/sulphur-free-petrol-diesel.aspx

For those wanting more info regarding the "Lubricity" Additives, the following may be of interest.

http://www.innospecinc.com/assets/_files/documents/dec_07/cm__1197636603_ULSD_EMEA_English.pdf

For info Innospec was initially created from the old Associated Octel who produced the Lead additive for Petrol

http://www.infineum.com/Pages/Lubricity.aspx

 

http://www.natbiogroup.com/docs/education/lubricity%20additive%20study%20results.pdf

note:- reference in this document to ULSD @ <15ppm is USA spec., EU equivalent is 10ppm.

 

 

 

 

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Sure no problem taking a chance, but what if you are stopped with coloured diesel?:$. Now it will be coloured by using coloured 2 stroke oil, try it out,

Yes you take your chances but you have been WARNED.

Diesel engines run very well on low sulphur fuel, if not the roads would be blocked with broken down vehicles

Regards,

Brendan

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Hi,

In the Merc Owners handbook for my Sprinter it Definitely says Do NOT Add fuel Additives ,  Merc Sprinters went though a bad patch with Injector trouble some time back , before I bought this Merc Motorhome I made several enquires to different Merc dealers,to check the problem was cured before buying my present M/H, it had been , My Local Dealer explained that the coating on the  Bosch Injector Needle was not up to the job and jambed when the coating wore off ,since been modified ,But he told me not to use any fuel additives Merc dont recommend it ?,  But that said I have used 2 stroke oil in diesel,s for years , but wont be adding any to my Motorhome, As for 2 stroke colouring the diesel , if you are unfortunate to be spot checked by customs and excise, their equipment Knows the difference between 2 stroke oil and Red Diesel, 

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As Flicka says, oil companies incorporate anti-wear additives to their products, but no one adds additional lubricating oil, or recommends adding it, or sells it as an optional extra at filling stations. No manufacturer suggests adding additional lubricating oil to fuel.

 

Remember when asking for a shot of Redex to be added to your fuel used to be quite common, but not any more.

 

Anything added to the fuel tank which burns is fuel, adding two-stroke oil to your fuel is adding untaxed fuel to your tank. What is the legal situation here?

 

 

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spospe - 2011-02-23 3:03 PM

 

Anything added to the fuel tank which burns is fuel, adding two-stroke oil to your fuel is adding untaxed fuel to your tank. What is the legal situation here?

 

AFAIW 2 stroke oil is classed as an Additive & only incurrs VAT @20%, i.e.no fuel Tax.

But I don't see that there can be a legal issue, as many Motorcycles are reliant on it's use & have been for many years.

 

An additional point regarding my previous post on this thread.

As well as the technical developments regarding the "Lubricity Additives" in modern fuels, they have been complimented by similar developments in Engine Oils & improved Engine manufacturing tolerances, to further safeguard the engine integrity.

As an example the Oil Company, I worked for had 3 Research establishments running banks of test engines 24/7/365 & working in conjuction with Engine manufacturers', additive manufacturers' lubrication producers. (anything from 2 stroke Lawnmower to F1 petrol engines & small 2 pot to Very Heavy Plant Diesels)

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Guest pelmetman
So I get the feeling John, that fuel nowdays is designed for the new generation of engines, so for us with older engines a bit of 2 stroke might help :-S
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pelmetman - 2011-02-23 4:31 PM

 

So I get the feeling John, that fuel nowdays is designed for the new generation of engines, so for us with older engines a bit of 2 stroke might help :-S

 

Hi Dave

If an engine is well worn, it might help for a while, but then again so would an engine overhaul :-( but that would be a long term benefit.

 

IMHO - NO !! just spending money for the sake of spending, not for benefits.

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Try explaining any colourant in your diesel if you are stopped and dipped in the South of France or Spain or anywhere for that matter.I don't think they care if it's coloured ,it's coloured. Is there any clear 2 stroke out there?

Modern fuels is OK for old and new diesels, no need to add anything, unless you get some fuel that has been treated (colour removed).:$

Far better to ensure you are using good quality diesel in the first place in old or new diesel engines.

Lets look at the facts, most of the fueling systems in diesel engines that have been damaged is caused by poor fuel or indeed diluted fuel and the % is quite low, otherwise the roads would be blocked with broken down vehicles.

This is just not happening.

Regards,

Brendan

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