Inland Revenue

[Gwendolyn]

“Autres temps; autres moeurs”.

 

When I graduated in the 1960s, I chose to teach. In those heady and idealistic days I, and my fellow students, felt we had something to offer; that we might possibly make a difference. I trust that I did.

 

We had sense of ‘service’. As far as I was concerned, I had never heard of pensions. When you are 20 something do you really think along those lines? I didn’t - I didn’t understand pensions. I’d heard of The Old Age Pension – but that was as far as it went.

 

Now it seems, judging by some of the vitriol on this thread, we were mis-guided and were, actually, not public servants giving worthwhile and valued service, but public enemies who were a drain on tax payers - total spongers.

 

As well as spending some considerable time in teaching, I worked for 3 different charities [in paid employment] and always, throughout life, have done voluntary work – I still do.

 

So I simply do not recognise myself [and my motivation] in the depiction of pension grabbing fat cats. Bonus? Never had one, ever.

 

[Big Momma]

malc d - 2011-03-08 9:10 PM

 

I am quite happy to pay taxes to support a public sector as long as those people are doing a worthwhile job, at a reasonable cost.

 

What I don't understand in the public sector is where 'bonuses' come from.

 

In the private sector, if your company makes a profit, you MAY, if you are lucky, get a share of it as a bonus. No profit, no bonus.

 

Where, in the public sector, can you make a profit ?

The perception is that those bonuses are paid for by simply putting up taxes.

 

 

;-)

 

But where are these bonuses in the 'normal' public sector services that you talk about ? The only bonus that the Council Refuse men get are those that the customer may elect to give them at Christmas, the Police do not get a bonus, the Admin worker does not get a bonus, the Prison Officer does not get a bonus, the Nurses do not get a bonus, The Ambulance service do not get a bonus, The Fire service do not get a bonus, The Inland Revenue do not get a bonus, The members of our Armed Forces do not get a bonus, Teachers in the Public Sector do not get a bonus, in fact looking at the majority of Public sector workers I do not know of very many that actually get such bonuses.

 

You ask the question, where in the public sector can you make a profit ? The majority of services within the public sector are not there to make a profit but they are there to provide a service. What would happen if you did not have people to come to your house and empty your bins, what if you had to get yourselves to hospital when you have had a traffic accident or fallen off a ladder and broken a leg, What if you had to put your own fires out, pay to have your children attend a school etc. etc. etc.

 

Perhaps we should privatise all of these Public Sector services and then they could charge for their services not forgetting to add on a bit of extra so they can make a profit and pay their staff bonuses. Lets do away with the public sector altogether, privatise everything and then see if that stops this divide with Public/Private sector.

 

I work pretty damn hard and I do provide a service to the public, make what I do part of the Private Sector so that we can charge for these services at a profit of course so that we can make a profit and I can earn myself a nice bonus and not have to face a 3 year pay freeze, sounds bloody god to me :D :D

[Big Momma]

Gwendolyn - 2011-03-08 10:35 PM

 

“Autres temps; autres moeurs”.

 

When I graduated in the 1960s, I chose to teach. In those heady and idealistic days I, and my fellow students, felt we had something to offer; that we might possibly make a difference. I trust that I did.

 

We had sense of ‘service’. As far as I was concerned, I had never heard of pensions. When you are 20 something do you really think along those lines? I didn’t - I didn’t understand pensions. I’d heard of The Old Age Pension – but that was as far as it went.

 

Now it seems, judging by some of the vitriol on this thread, we were mis-guided and were, actually, not public servants giving worthwhile and valued service, but public enemies who were a drain on tax payers - total spongers.

 

As well as spending some considerable time in teaching, I worked for 3 different charities [in paid employment] and always, throughout life, have done voluntary work – I still do.

 

So I simply do not recognise myself [and my motivation] in the depiction of pension grabbing fat cats. Bonus? Never had one, ever.

 

I have spent far too mch time on this particular thread but I must say you have summed it up in less words than I have used.........Hear, Hear common sense prevails, thought I was on my own for a moment with the Indians circling my lone wagon train :D :D

[Guest pelmetman]

Gwendolyn - 2011-03-08 10:35 PM

 

Now it seems, judging by some of the vitriol on this thread, we were mis-guided and were, actually, not public servants giving worthwhile and valued service, but public enemies who were a drain on tax payers - total spongers.

 

 

Vitriol (?) .......Well I suppose if pointing out where the Public sector funding comes from is classed as Vitriol 8-) .........then I am guilty as charged :D

 

This thread is a prime example of the Them against Us mentality :D

Where the Public sector takes any criticism of their waste as an attack on themselves, and seem not to recognize the need for the Public sector to live within its means or prepared to do anything about it :-S

[Gwendolyn]

pelmetman - 2011-03-09 8:08 AM

 

Gwendolyn - 2011-03-08 10:35 PM

 

Now it seems, judging by some of the vitriol on this thread, we were mis-guided and were, actually, not public servants giving worthwhile and valued service, but public enemies who were a drain on tax payers - total spongers.

 

 

Vitriol (?) .......Well I suppose if pointing out where the Public sector funding comes from is classed as Vitriol 8-) .........then I am guilty as charged :D

 

This thread is a prime example of the Them against Us mentality :D

Where the Public sector takes any criticism of their waste as an attack on themselves, and seem not to recognize the need for the Public sector to live within its means or prepared to do anything about it :-S

 

Have I strayed into a Daily Mail message board in error?

 

There seems to be vitriol directed indiscriminately against anyone who works in the Public Sector, regardless of "rank".

 

There is no Them v Us mentality as far as I am concerned. Where do you detect that? I just pointed out that I did [and still do in a voluntary, unpaid capacity] what I regard as "service"; that I chose to teach from a sense of idealism.

 

Without knowing me, or how and where I worked, you accuse me of causing "waste". Please, bring some logic to bear, don't fall back on prejudices.

 

And, if you feel so strongly, what are you doing about it personally? Are you a local councillor perhaps so you can combat waste at local level as a start of the remedy?

 

 

 

[Guest pelmetman]

Gwendolyn - 2011-03-09 10:01 am

 

Have I strayed into a Daily Mail message board in error?

 

There seems to be vitriol directed indiscriminately against anyone who works in the Public Sector, regardless of "rank".

 

There is no Them v Us mentality as far as I am concerned. Where do you detect that? I just pointed out that I did [and still do in a voluntary, unpaid capacity] what I regard as "service"; that I chose to teach from a sense of idealism.

 

Without knowing me, or how and where I worked, you accuse me of causing "waste". Please, bring some logic to bear, don't fall back on prejudices.

 

And, if you feel so strongly, what are you doing about it personally? Are you a local councillor perhaps so you can combat waste at local level as a start of the remedy?

 

 

 

Sorry Gwendolyn, but I dont think in any of my posts I personally accused anyone of causing the waste :D

 

I was refering to the general waste of tax which has been going on for years within the Public sector for example the MOD...... 36 billion 8-).

 

There is nothing we in the private sector can do about it but highlight the waste of our money, but if the Public sector got its house in order then perhaps the cuts need not be so deep :D ............Its not us who spend the money *-)

[Gwendolyn]

Well you can do something as well as just pointing out these ideas on this board, which dare I say it, has limited effect - stand for your local council. But be sure you get elected!

[malc d]

Big Momma - 2011-03-08 10:53 PM

 

malc d - 2011-03-08 9:10 PM

 

I am quite happy to pay taxes to support a public sector as long as those people are doing a worthwhile job, at a reasonable cost.

 

What I don't understand in the public sector is where 'bonuses' come from.

 

In the private sector, if your company makes a profit, you MAY, if you are lucky, get a share of it as a bonus. No profit, no bonus.

 

Where, in the public sector, can you make a profit ?

The perception is that those bonuses are paid for by simply putting up taxes.

 

 

;-)

 

But where are these bonuses in the 'normal' public sector services that you talk about ? The only bonus that the Council Refuse men get are those that the customer may elect to give them at Christmas, the Police do not get a bonus, the Admin worker does not get a bonus, the Prison Officer does not get a bonus, the Nurses do not get a bonus, The Ambulance service do not get a bonus, The Fire service do not get a bonus, The Inland Revenue do not get a bonus, The members of our Armed Forces do not get a bonus, Teachers in the Public Sector do not get a bonus, in fact looking at the majority of Public sector workers I do not know of very many that actually get such bonuses.

 

You ask the question, where in the public sector can you make a profit ? The majority of services within the public sector are not there to make a profit but they are there to provide a service. What would happen if you did not have people to come to your house and empty your bins, what if you had to get yourselves to hospital when you have had a traffic accident or fallen off a ladder and broken a leg, What if you had to put your own fires out, pay to have your children attend a school etc. etc. etc.

 

Perhaps we should privatise all of these Public Sector services and then they could charge for their services not forgetting to add on a bit of extra so they can make a profit and pay their staff bonuses. Lets do away with the public sector altogether, privatise everything and then see if that stops this divide with Public/Private sector.

 

I work pretty damn hard and I do provide a service to the public, make what I do part of the Private Sector so that we can charge for these services at a profit of course so that we can make a profit and I can earn myself a nice bonus and not have to face a 3 year pay freeze, sounds bloody god to me :D :D

 

 

Steady on Big Momma, you are being unnecessarily defensive.

 

As I say I am quite happy to pay taxes to support the public sector as long as they are doing a worthwhile job at a reasonable cost.

 

What's wrong with that ?

 

I never suggested that ALL public sector workers get bonuses.

 

But, for instance, you say " the police don't get bonuses "

 

Yesterdays report on police pay by Tom Winsor says that " all chief officer and superintendent bonuses should be suspended "

 

So, you tell me, where does the money for their bonuses come from ?

 

You say :" The majority of services in the public sector are not there to make a profit, but to provide a service "

 

That is my point precisely.

No profit is made in the public sector, so where do the bonuses for police chiefs come from ?

 

It can only come from taxpayers ( including public sector workers) paying more tax.

 

I won't respond to your piece about privatising local services because I have not suggested that they should be.

 

Surely everyone who pays tax, including public sector workers, should be on the same side in controlling how taxes are spent.

 

:-)

[catinou]

Public sector worker = my husband = nearly 40 years looking after sick people = saved (proven) numerous lives = deserves a good (expensive contributions from low pay!) pension after a working life of dealing with thousands of very sick people. No guilt here! :-S No cats fat or otherwise either. ;-)

 

I feel it would be good for "private sector" members to think of the years of better conditions and better pay etc. they have experrienced compared to the "public sector" workers - or, even nicer, live and let live and we all choose where we work..... ;-) Last point - "public sector" workers also pay taxes so does that mean they are paying their own salaries? *-)

[malc d]

catinou - 2011-03-09 11:11 AM

 

Public sector worker = my husband = nearly 40 years looking after sick people = saved (proven) numerous lives = deserves a good (expensive contributions from low pay!) pension after a working life of dealing with thousands of very sick people. No guilt here! :-S No cats fat or otherwise either. ;-)

 

I feel it would be good for "private sector" members to think of the years of better conditions and better pay etc. they have experrienced compared to the "public sector" workers - or, even nicer, live and let live and we all choose where we work..... ;-) Last point - "public sector" workers also pay taxes so does that mean they are paying their own salaries? *-)

 

 

Your last point:

 

If you are being paid £25000 a year, and paying £25000 a year in tax, then yes, you are paying your own salary.

Otherwise you are just contributing.

 

;-)

[Guest pelmetman]

catinou - 2011-03-09 11:11 AM

 

Last point - "public sector" workers also pay taxes so does that mean they are paying their own salaries? *-)

 

 

Ah, but that is just recycled tax ;-) and without fresh new tax the Public sector would seize up, and the only people who generate genuine untainted tax is the Private sector :D

[Guest pelmetman]

Gwendolyn - 2011-03-09 10:26 AM

 

Well you can do something as well as just pointing out these ideas on this board, which dare I say it, has limited effect

 

That's a good idea (^) I could offer my services to the FSA as a "Thrift consultant" for £250k a year, then immediatly save them £250k by giving myself the sack providing I got the same compensation package as Mr Briault (lol)

 

Mr Briault appears to have been allowed to run off with it and melt it down and use the silver to augment his pension. The FSA’s annual report reveals that he left with £356,452 of compensation for lost salary and bonuses, £36,000 of pension contributions and £202,500 for ‘compensation for loss of office’.

 

Apologies to Clive for nicking part of his post :D

[CliveH]

You crack on Dave - (lol)

 

I would also add that on average about 30% of our Council Tax is not spent on local people ammenaties. This 30% is actually paid to people who have worked for Local Authorities but now retired.

 

So 30% of the local taxes applied to everyone does not go on Libraries, local loos, bin services, grass mowing, emergency services etc.

 

It goes to pay retired Local Authority personels pensions.

 

As for the old chestnut that the 6% (on average this is the figure) contribution that Public sector employees pay into their own scheme:-

 

a) all wages of the public sector come from taxes so as you say this is simply "recycled" tax.

 

b) 6% is not enough by any means to pay for the Public Sector pension liability - the total annual bill per person approximates to 20%, thus if the PS employee pays 6% then the employer - the public sector - pays a further circa 14%. This means that whatever budgets that public sector department is allocated from taxes, to spend according to its responcibilities, that budget is reduced by this 14%.

 

The sad fact is that many Public Sector employees have little idea of where their pay and expences and pensions actually come from. I see it almost everyday when I talk to people in the Public Sector that think nothing of putting off a decision because of a minor issue. They have little idea of the concept of opportunity costs and i believe this is because they think the money just "arrives".

 

How different in the Private Sector were the money have to be earned or nobody has a job - let alone a pension paid for by other people.

[Gwendolyn]

So you would have the workers in the Public Sector work on a voluntary, unpaid basis? Or do away with it completely?

What is your solution?

And someone said there is no vitriol on this thread! The previous poster seems to think we are all lacking in intelligence.

[catinou]

malc d - 2011-03-09 11:56 AM

 

catinou - 2011-03-09 11:11 AM

 

Public sector worker = my husband = nearly 40 years looking after sick people = saved (proven) numerous lives = deserves a good (expensive contributions from low pay!) pension after a working life of dealing with thousands of very sick people. No guilt here! :-S No cats fat or otherwise either. ;-)

 

I feel it would be good for "private sector" members to think of the years of better conditions and better pay etc. they have experrienced compared to the "public sector" workers - or, even nicer, live and let live and we all choose where we work..... ;-) Last point - "public sector" workers also pay taxes so does that mean they are paying their own salaries? *-)

 

 

Your last point:

 

If you are being paid £25000 a year, and paying £25000 a year in tax, then yes, you are paying your own salary.

Otherwise you are just contributing.

 

;-)

 

Caught me ! Should have said "contributing to" not "paying" *-) :$ I still would rather be a "public sector" worker if I could - ie saving lives e.g.nurses, doctors, police, firemen; keeping things "nice" for all of us in the "private sector" (I admit I am in this group) e.g.dustmen, etc. than to sit smugly counting my "profits" and moaning about taxes and perceived "wrongs".

 

It takes private and public sectors to make up a total society. *-)

[malc d]

catinou - 2011-03-09 2:21 PM

 

malc d - 2011-03-09 11:56 AM

 

catinou - 2011-03-09 11:11 AM

 

Public sector worker = my husband = nearly 40 years looking after sick people = saved (proven) numerous lives = deserves a good (expensive contributions from low pay!) pension after a working life of dealing with thousands of very sick people. No guilt here! :-S No cats fat or otherwise either. ;-)

 

I feel it would be good for "private sector" members to think of the years of better conditions and better pay etc. they have experrienced compared to the "public sector" workers - or, even nicer, live and let live and we all choose where we work..... ;-) Last point - "public sector" workers also pay taxes so does that mean they are paying their own salaries? *-)

 

 

Your last point:

 

If you are being paid £25000 a year, and paying £25000 a year in tax, then yes, you are paying your own salary.

Otherwise you are just contributing.

 

;-)

 

Caught me ! Should have said "contributing to" not "paying" *-) :$ I still would rather be a "public sector" worker if I could - ie saving lives e.g.nurses, doctors, police, firemen; keeping things "nice" for all of us in the "private sector" (I admit I am in this group) e.g.dustmen, etc. than to sit smugly counting my "profits" and moaning about taxes and perceived "wrongs".

 

It takes private and public sectors to make up a total society. *-)

 

 

It seems to me that we are more or less on the same side.

( I think it may get a bit embarrassing for some private sector workers if we starting asking " whose job is of most benefit to society ").

 

My only complaint about the public sector is that there does not seem to be anyone in control of the money that is spent. ( Bit like the BBC !)

 

As an example, the senior police officers mentioned in yesterdays report are, I am sure, well paid.

Then someone decides that they should get bonuses.

( Goodness knows why - they should be doing their best anyway).

No savings in the organisation, or better practices, are called for, all

the government needs to do is stick 2 or 3 pence on a litre of petrol and the bonuses are paid for.

 

I would have thought that ALL tax payers would want our taxes better spent.

 

 

 

;-)

[Guest pelmetman]

malc d - 2011-03-09 2:56 PM

 

I would have thought that ALL tax payers would want our taxes better spent.

 

;-)

 

Could not agree more :-D ..............But unless we keep on kicking up a fuss the system will not change, for example as Clive pointed out 30% of our Council Tax goes on pensions 8-) if things dont change that percentage will only increase! so at what stage do we change the system? when its 50%? 70%? or when all we pay for is the pensions and receive no services? 8-)

[catinou]

pelmetman - 2011-03-09 3:21 PM

 

malc d - 2011-03-09 2:56 PM

 

I would have thought that ALL tax payers would want our taxes better spent.

 

;-)

 

Could not agree more :-D ..............But unless we keep on kicking up a fuss the system will not change, for example as Clive pointed out 30% of our Council Tax goes on pensions 8-) if things dont change that percentage will only increase! so at what stage do we change the system? when its 50%? 70%? or when all we pay for is the pensions and receive no services? 8-)

 

Thanks Malc agree completely..I get the feeling somebody's pension has been a let down? I know mine has and I paid into it for years and have got next to nothing back - complete waste of time. >:-( but I don't begrudge those who have paid into a better system.. ;-)

[CliveH]

Gwendolyn - 2011-03-09 1:33 PM

 

So you would have the workers in the Public Sector work on a voluntary, unpaid basis? Or do away with it completely?

What is your solution?

And someone said there is no vitriol on this thread! The previous poster seems to think we are all lacking in intelligence.

 

I do not think anyone is lacking in intelligence - but whereas you overreact Gwendolyn and make the silly comment that those of us concerned at obvious excesses of the public sector "would have the workers in the Public Sector work on a voluntary, unpaid basis? Or do away with it completely?" and you ask:-

 

"What is your solution?"

 

I have stated what I would suggest as a start in the reorganisation of the Public Sector.

 

First - renewable contracts rather than a job for life. There are no jobs for life in the private sector - but the public sector is full of them - the Police force analysis underlines that in spades

 

Second - All pension schemes across the board - both Public and Private Sector must be able to demonstrate "equivalence" - i.e. it is SO SO wrong that the rules that are set by those in the Public Sector that make a Final Salary Scheme SO expensive that the private Sector cannot afford them NEVER APPLY TO THE PUBLIC SECTOR THEMSELVES BECAUSE THE PRIVATE SECTOR PAYS FOR THE PUBLIC SECTOR PENSIONS!

 

Third - The Bonus Culture in both the Private Sector AND the public Sector should be overhauled. In the Private Sector – bonuses should be restricted to a percentage of salary – I would say 20% - the same restriction should be placed on the Private Sector – AND – in the Public Sector in particular the ethos of paying someone a bonus just for doing what they are contracted to do MUST STOP! – that working practice is not prevalent in the Private Sector but it is standard practice in the Public Sector.

 

Fourth – the practice of awarding the Public Sector huge sums of money for “loss of position” when they are forced to resign over wrongdoing or incompetence has got to stop.

 

Fifth – All Public Sector employees should be educated as to where the money used in the budgets they allocate and the salaries and the pensions they receive actually comes from. Because as I have said before – most of the Public Sector employees I regularly deal with just think an Aladdin’s cave exists behind a wall somewhere and they say “opensesame” and more dosh spills out.

 

…………………..

 

On a personal note – I do not believe that anyone is having a go at the frontline Public Sector Workers – but believe me Gwendolyn – the Private Sector has been decimated over the last decade or so and most in the Private Sector have seen the Public Sector get more, take more and not give up a thing whilst the average worker in the Private Sector get less, take home less, and are forced to give up their own pension or have the company pension downgraded to a Defined contribution scheme rather than a Final Salary Defined benefit system that the Public Sector have hung onto.

 

What I find enormously offensive is that Company Pension Schemes have been decimated due to the rules that the Public Sector dream up – but which the Public Sector make damn sure those same rules never apply to them!

 

So no – we are not suggesting the Public Sector work for nothing – Just the same as the rest of us.

 

[Big Momma]

CliveH - 2011-03-09 4:10 PM

 

Third - The Bonus Culture in both the Private Sector AND the public Sector should be overhauled. In the Private Sector – bonuses should be restricted to a percentage of salary – I would say 20% - the same restriction should be placed on the Private Sector – AND – in the Public Sector in particular the ethos of paying someone a bonus just for doing what they are contracted to do MUST STOP! – that working practice is not prevalent in the Private Sector but it is standard practice in the Public Sector.

 

 

Fifth – All Public Sector employees should be educated as to where the money used in the budgets they allocate and the salaries and the pensions they receive actually comes from. Because as I have said before – most of the Public Sector employees I regularly deal with just think an Aladdin’s cave exists behind a wall somewhere and they say “opensesame” and more dosh spills out.

 

 

 

Agree totally with your third point. If you are paid to do a job and you do it then why should you be paid a bonus ? If you are paid to do a job and do not acheive it, why should you receive a bonus ? You will get no argument from me there.

 

Your Fifth point is OTT though. All Public Sector workers should be educated ....................... all because of the few (in the grand scale of things) that you regularly deal with don't appear to have a clue where the money comes from. I would be extremely offended, as would 4,500 of my colleagues in a front line service, to have it suggested that we as a Public Sector worker need educating in where the funding for our Agency comes from. We have to acheive objectives and provide results for the funding we receive, and if we waste money we have to have a very good explanation and explain how, why, when. So perhaps not ALL public sector workers need this education.

 

The Grass is always greener, if the Private Sector is so bad then come on over and join us in the 'Public Sector', but you will have to come without your rose tinted glasses because let me assure you that in the real world we do not exist in a land of milk and honey. I agree that there are 'a minority' to which some of you have referred and don't think that we don't get very P***ed off with it too. But if you go back to my much earlier postings on this subject, the point that I was making was not that some of these things don't happen or exist but if you look at the number of Public Sector workers it is the 'minority' and not the 'majority' and therefore the original sweeping statement of "Public Sector Workers" inferred that it was rife throughout the public sector.

 

Nice healthy debate I thought and glad to see that some other public sector colleagues have brought their wagon trail to join me and see off all you Indians :D :D

[Guest pelmetman]

Big Momma - 2011-03-09 7:32 PM

 

Nice healthy debate I thought and glad to see that some other public sector colleagues have brought their wagon trail to join me and see off all you Indians :D :D

 

Oh heck! the cowboys are back :D

[malc d]

pelmetman - 2011-03-09 7:46 PM

 

Big Momma - 2011-03-09 7:32 PM

 

Nice healthy debate I thought and glad to see that some other public sector colleagues have brought their wagon trail to join me and see off all you Indians :D :D

 

Oh heck! the cowboys are back :D

 

 

To be fair I think you will find the majority of 'cowboys' are in the private sector.

 

 

;-)

[Guest pelmetman]

malc d - 2011-03-09 7:51 PM

 

pelmetman - 2011-03-09 7:46 PM

 

Big Momma - 2011-03-09 7:32 PM

 

Nice healthy debate I thought and glad to see that some other public sector colleagues have brought their wagon trail to join me and see off all you Indians :D :D

 

Oh heck! the cowboys are back :D

 

 

To be fair I think you will find the majority of 'cowboys' are in the private sector.

 

 

;-)

 

But the public sector cowboys are making us cowboys look good :D

[Big Momma]

Let's face it folks, we both need each other Public and Private sector. We could not in reality privatise the whole of the Public Sector and we need the Private Sector to be able to fund those public sector services. But, the funds that do come in to the Public Sector often go back to the Private Sector in contracting out for goods and services. A case maybe of what goes around comes around :D We have just signed off on a contract to a Private Sector service provider for a period of 10 years worth in excess of £100m. Looking at their website they are now recruiting additional staff to service the contract thereby taking people out of unemployment and of course getting more people to pay Taxes :D In the Public Sector however there is an embargo on recruitment and lots of public service workers are being made redundant with very, very low severence payments (Not big cheeses I hasten to add, just the normal worker bees). So the Private Sector gets work, able to recruit into the Private Sector workforce, make a profit on what they charge to the public sector for the service or product so that they can pay Private Sector workers wages and bonuses. Not all doom and gloom then. :D

[Guest Tracker]

One of the biggest issues in pension provision and the simple fact is that public service employees do not pay enough into their pension to cover it's cost.

 

Therefore public service pensions are heavily subsidised by every other taxpayer whereas those who have to pay for their own pensions through employment or self employment have no such luxury.

 

Is that fair do you think - maybe it is a fair trade off for all the lower paid workers who, lets face it, don't get a huge pension anyway but it certainly is not fair for higher paid civil servants to have such a subsidy.

 

Nobody wants to see public service get a smaller pension but all the rest of us ask is that they be educated into paying a fair share for it.

 

It won't happen of course because turkeys don't vote for Christmas and the unions would rather destroy the very service they claim to protect than accept the inevitable and work with government to redress the imbalance.!