EU Rules:What is a motor “home”do Camping cars count as “home” after 3 months?

[Alf Stonehouse]

EU Rules:What is a motor “home”do Camping cars count as “home” after 3 months?

 

My camping car & i have been in France for almost three months.And what a wonderful time its been,ive learnt a lot about which aires to stop & the iner most workings of the “motor” part of the home,which has been totally reliable only the rubber boot on the front right paw needing replacement.The water system that inspite of being frozen solid for the first week of our adventures working perfectly since it thawed.

 

My last post from cafè in the centre of Cahors the sun giving the impression of summer to be, the smell of fresh ground coffee in the air,my basket full of fresh garden vegetables from the market & bottle of chateau de Bougigues white to cook the fish i read in reply that i” post to often””shouldn't ask questions”& “shouldnt speak of the less attractive side of motorhomeing”

 

I left my 1.1kg laptop in the cupboard bought myself a folding bike which is an ideal size & weight to live inside when not in use. Ive seen more of towns stopped at stops 10kms or more from bakers & butchers & justified eating “consommè de Boeuf” “pot au feu et ses lègumes” “Entrecote grillèe à l’èchalote”pommes forestières”cheese desert wine & coffee this past Wednesday in a pleasent working town of “Bazas”i arrived in time for the “Fète des Boeufs Gras”and not asked where i could find a wi-fi

 

When i bought this camping car i planed to be away for perhaps three of four weeks,its soon nine weeks & if my emails & sms are an indication ive been forgotten?Then i don't have any more exams im free,well almost free.

 

The EU rules state that after 12 weeks (in France, spain Portugal where ever )im a resident?I have to have a tax number make a tax deceleration & if i obey the EU rules have ask “my town hall”for a permit to stay.

 

When the 12 weeks & one day arrive where are motor “homes” “resident”?Dose a campingcar qualify as “home”?Then i will have to change my English registration for a French registration as the customs forbid French residents from driving English registered cars

 

What address dose a camping car get from the EU once its been 12 weeks or more in France??At the same time my heath insurance in the UK is cancelled?Do i have to take private insurance?Which im told doesn't exist in France?Or join the French health & pension system?But how?

 

As usual the EU has passed laws that over ride national laws so what do i do when the 12 weeks are past? This all come of talking to Embassy staff i met on my adventure

 

What about my insurance?Im told that the EU has decided that male drivers pay far to much and Woman pay far to little just because they are better drivers

 

What do i do?

 

In the mean time i know exactly what im doing,walking across to the internet connection (2€ for the key)to post this

 

.Then ill take my folding bike to the co-operative where wine cheese ducks liver& pruneau are to be eaten between trying the local wine.I have asked why its so easy to find wine but not water??I have to take a measuring jug & five liter bottle to a tap in a loo.Umm I think ill just go along to the wine & local produce promotion,up hill.Getting “home” is easy

[chas]

Glad to hear from you again Alf glad your still enjoying it. I could not begin to answere all these rules and regulations that are put in the way of freedom.

 

I personaly would be inclined to cross the border into Spain for warmer weather, and start another 3months of camping in that country, ok I know its not the legal answere but if you try to comply with everything you will get nowwhere, keep moving and dont look back till YOU want to. Cheers and good luck.

[silverback]

glad to hear from you alf, like the post above says, nip over to another country for abit, then go back to france, safe travels

jon

[ian81]

I dont know what rules you are referring to. This sounds like someone telling you a load of half truths at best.

 

Please just get on and enjoy France: we are based there (home) but currently are in Italy where we will spend more than 3 months in our MH with no concerns.

 

As far as tax / residency is concerned your domicile is considered as where you spend more than 187 days a year and where you have your main residence. So if you have your home in the UK and are off travelling.

 

For the MH technically after 6 months in another EU country it should be re-registered but as long as it has UK road tax MOT and insurance in practice they local police are unlikely to bother you. Failing that just drive into Spain for a minute or two.

 

As long as you are registered with the NHS and have a EHIC you will qualify for treatment in France albeit with a contribution that insurance will cover if you have it.

 

If you are still travelling SW France in April drop me a pm for a beer if you decide to come to Mazamet. You can park in the main carpark with water and dump facilities for free (or up at our mountain lake).

 

[Alf Stonehouse]

B-) Hello

 

I dont have a passport & cant go into Spain :-D I could drive to Italy.France isnt a problem as they are ignoring the rules since no one knows about them :-S

 

The three month rule is explained in a UK govt document

 

Im having a wonderful time *-) :-D I hope it will go on a while longer :-D Summer im sure will defiantly stop me perhaps spring?For the moment there arnt many campers & lots of place to stay :-)

 

I have to stop by April lots to do :-S But next winter. Im looking for a reason to be stranded in France again

 

I only had four very small glasses od wine 8-) it must have been strong they said "fruity & light" there was heavy the French do tend to under estimate the % wonderful afternoon *-) (lol)

[Guest pelmetman]

Hi Alf, nice to see you back :D As for crossing the the border into Spain that shouldn't be a problem as you are already in France, as europe is Sans Frontierers :D

 

But more importantly what happened to all the wine in your water tank (?) :D

 

PS if you are asked for your passport just say you were robbed :D

[BGD]

Alf Stonehouse - 2011-03-04 7:25 PM

 

B-) Hello

 

I dont have a passport & cant go into Spain :-D I could drive to Italy.France isnt a problem as they are ignoring the rules since no one knows about them :-S

 

The three month rule is explained in a UK govt document

 

Im having a wonderful time *-) :-D I hope it will go on a while longer :-D Summer im sure will defiantly stop me perhaps spring?For the moment there arnt many campers & lots of place to stay :-)

 

I have to stop by April lots to do :-S But next winter. Im looking for a reason to be stranded in France again

 

I only had four very small glasses od wine 8-) it must have been strong they said "fruity & light" there was heavy the French do tend to under estimate the % wonderful afternoon *-) (lol)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You've been drinking a lot of that plonk methinks Alf.

 

1. There is no such thing as Residency rules throughout all the Member States of the EU, EXCEPT the reciprocal taxation rules: if you reside in a single Member State for more than 6 months in any of that Member States tax year, then you should (but of course few do...ahem) declare your income in that Member State and be taxed upon it per that States rules. You can then, if you return to your "home" State, offset the tax paid in that other State against that of your State of nationality.

In the real world, simply continue to reside temporarily in France, say nowt; and do do not worry, be happy.

 

 

 

 

2. You DO NOT require a passport to come over into Spain from France.

France isn't "ignoring the problem"; it simply is not a problem.

In fact legally, you don't actually require by law to be in possession of a passport to travel within/between any of the "Shengen" group of EU states (basically all of the older EU members with the single exception of the UK...who refused to sign up to the Shengen agreement).

It's rather (possibly very) messy and complicated in practice if you don't have a passport to show if asked, as the UK never got into the national ID card thingy as well/instead, but legally, so long as you have sufficient other documents to prove your ID and nationality, you don't actually require a passport.

As there is now no Border Control at all between France and Spain, you can just drive across into Spain, and later back into France, any time and as many times, as you like. Same from France into Belgium/Germany/Holland, etc.

 

 

 

 

 

[Alf Stonehouse]

Thats what the rules were all changed about 2 years ago by a group of 6 in Brussles

 

Many think as you but in Spain where they apply the new rules people are loosing their camper vans & boats

 

The wine :-D Thats been packed into cardboard "bricks" 1 litre each i have to look to be use im opening a carton of milk & not something else ;-)

 

Suns warm my fridge is working again?? Which reminds me i have to post a question about that

 

Its (so far) a wonderful weekend :-)

[Brian Kirby]

BGD - 2011-03-04 9:28 PM ................. You DO NOT require a passport to come over into Spain from France. France isn't "ignoring the problem"; it simply is not a problem. In fact legally, you don't actually require by law to be in possession of a passport to travel within/between any of the "Shengen" group of EU states (basically all of the older EU members with the single exception of the UK...who refused to sign up to the Shengen agreement). It's rather (possibly very) messy and complicated in practise if you don't have a passport to show if asked, as the UK never got into the national ID card thingy as well/instead, but legally, so long as you have sufficient other documents to prove your ID and nationality, you don't actually require a passport. As there is now no Border Control at all between France and Spain, you can just drive across into Spain, and later back into France, any time and as many times, as you like. Same from France into Belgium/Germany/Holland, etc.

But you do, do you not Bruce, need an officially recognised (from whatever state is your home state) means of establishing your identity?  For the Shengen countries that is the national identity card that, I believe, it is still a requirement to carry at all times in quite a few countries.  I would have thought Spain would still have that requirement on grounds of ETA and North African illegals.  I believe it is still a requirement in France, and I know that from time to time the French begin looking at identity papers particularly around the Spanish border, and on main routes from Spain.  If one is British, the officially recognised document, in the absence of ID cards, is a passport.

We Brits, of course, then want to see that proper ID on entry to UK.  Whether Alf encounters any actual problems while away will be the luck of the draw, but he should report the loss or theft to the police, and get a crime number if stolen, as well as to one of the British consulates, or the British Embassy of the country he is in, before he tries to get back into UK.  Otherwise, he may find his return somewhat complicated.  Further details here: http://tinyurl.com/347o8uk

[Guest JudgeMental]

So Alf are you a UK resident? how did you get to France without a passport? *-)

[Alf Stonehouse]

Thats easy i went with my old passport then sent it off to Paris for renewal :-S Im still waiting

 

The embassy cannot be contacted no email telephone of fax the last two are messages & the very expensive pay number only deals with the way to get a passport or re new not with "when " it might be ready

 

France is OK we do have a property hear so i could stay forever and pay taxes??

[Guest JudgeMental]

a good reminder that mine needs renewing next year........

[rupert123]

I sometimes wonder about Alf, he seems to live in a differant world from the rest of us. I do not know about others but in my travels over the last few years, apart from UK/France I have never ever seen a border post. Last year in the Pyrenees it was sometimes hard to tell if you were in Spain or France, half the time not even a sign at the border. Even the Swiss seem to be giving up on it, I go to Geneva airport a lot when out skiing and although the border posts into Geneva are their they only stop you if you are going straight onto a Swiss autoroute to make you buy a ticket. Out of interest I managed to leave my passport behind in France during January and did not realise until I arrived at Calais. At French customs after I told them they just shrugged and let me through, British customs sent me over to office asked me for proof of ID and sent me on my way, no problem. I have now been reunited with it so OK for next week. As for the rest I did whole ski seasons in the 80's which lasted five months and had no problems at all. Things where differant in those days and I certainly should not have been their but you just keep your head down and no one cares. I have never been asked for papers, why would you be especially at non existant border posts. I am incidently talking about original EU countries, no idea about the new lot. Do not know where your info comes from Alf but it is largely b*****ks

[ian81]

Brian Kirby - 2011-03-05 3:48 PM

BGD - 2011-03-04 9:28 PM ................. You DO NOT require a passport to come over into Spain from France. France isn't "ignoring the problem"; it simply is not a problem. In fact legally, you don't actually require by law to be in possession of a passport to travel within/between any of the "Shengen" group of EU states (basically all of the older EU members with the single exception of the UK...who refused to sign up to the Shengen agreement). It's rather (possibly very) messy and complicated in practise if you don't have a passport to show if asked, as the UK never got into the national ID card thingy as well/instead, but legally, so long as you have sufficient other documents to prove your ID and nationality, you don't actually require a passport. As there is now no Border Control at all between France and Spain, you can just drive across into Spain, and later back into France, any time and as many times, as you like. Same from France into Belgium/Germany/Holland, etc.

But you do, do you not Bruce, need an officially recognised (from whatever state is your home state) means of establishing your identity?  For the Shengen countries that is the national identity card that, I believe, it is still a requirement to carry at all times in quite a few countries.  I would have thought Spain would still have that requirement on grounds of ETA and North African illegals.  I believe it is still a requirement in France, and I know that from time to time the French begin looking at identity papers particularly around the Spanish border, and on main routes from Spain.  If one is British, the officially recognised document, in the absence of ID cards, is a passport.

We Brits, of course, then want to see that proper ID on entry to UK.  Whether Alf encounters any actual problems while away will be the luck of the draw, but he should report the loss or theft to the police, and get a crime number if stolen, as well as to one of the British consulates, or the British Embassy of the country he is in, before he tries to get back into UK.  Otherwise, he may find his return somewhat complicated.  Further details here: http://tinyurl.com/347o8uk

Brian is correct. A formal identification document is required if stopped. As the UK doesn't have id cards a passport is necessary.Last year we were stopped by customs returning from Spain to France and needed our passports to prove identity.

[BGD]

ian81 - 2011-03-05 5:07 PM

Brian Kirby - 2011-03-05 3:48 PM

BGD - 2011-03-04 9:28 PM ................. You DO NOT require a passport to come over into Spain from France. France isn't "ignoring the problem"; it simply is not a problem. In fact legally, you don't actually require by law to be in possession of a passport to travel within/between any of the "Shengen" group of EU states (basically all of the older EU members with the single exception of the UK...who refused to sign up to the Shengen agreement). It's rather (possibly very) messy and complicated in practise if you don't have a passport to show if asked, as the UK never got into the national ID card thingy as well/instead, but legally, so long as you have sufficient other documents to prove your ID and nationality, you don't actually require a passport. As there is now no Border Control at all between France and Spain, you can just drive across into Spain, and later back into France, any time and as many times, as you like. Same from France into Belgium/Germany/Holland, etc.

But you do, do you not Bruce, need an officially recognised (from whatever state is your home state) means of establishing your identity?  For the Shengen countries that is the national identity card that, I believe, it is still a requirement to carry at all times in quite a few countries.  I would have thought Spain would still have that requirement on grounds of ETA and North African illegals.  I believe it is still a requirement in France, and I know that from time to time the French begin looking at identity papers particularly around the Spanish border, and on main routes from Spain.  If one is British, the officially recognised document, in the absence of ID cards, is a passport.

We Brits, of course, then want to see that proper ID on entry to UK.  Whether Alf encounters any actual problems while away will be the luck of the draw, but he should report the loss or theft to the police, and get a crime number if stolen, as well as to one of the British consulates, or the British Embassy of the country he is in, before he tries to get back into UK.  Otherwise, he may find his return somewhat complicated.  Further details here: http://tinyurl.com/347o8uk

Brian is correct. A formal identification document is required if stopped. As the UK doesn't have id cards a passport is necessary.Last year we were stopped by customs returning from Spain to France and needed our passports to prove identity.

Maybe re-read my original post. Or perhaps I did not make my point clearly enough.I did not at any point say that a formal ID document is not required in Spain. It is.What I said was that it is NOT a requirement to have a passport.Possession of a passport is a convenience, indeed a massive convenience, to indicate identity; but it is NOT a legal requirement under EU Directive within Shengen Agreement countries....which is why many Spanish people for example choose to prove ID in other EU countries by carrying/producing their national ID card, rather than a passport.Foreign nationals in Spain are also required to carry proof of ID....but an EU photo type driving licence, a legally certified copy of a passport, a legally certified photo etc will all suffice in lieu of a passport.

[Randonneur]

Alf Stonehouse - 2011-03-05 4:37 PM

 

Thats easy i went with my old passport then sent it off to Paris for renewal :-S Im still waiting

 

The embassy cannot be contacted no email telephone of fax the last two are messages & the very expensive pay number only deals with the way to get a passport or re new not with "when " it might be ready

 

France is OK we do have a property hear so i could stay forever and pay taxes??

 

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[chas]

Randonneur - 2011-03-06 8:43 AM

 

Alf Stonehouse - 2011-03-05 4:37 PM

 

Thats easy i went with my old passport then sent it off to Paris for renewal :-S Im still waiting

 

The embassy cannot be contacted no email telephone of fax the last two are messages & the very expensive pay number only deals with the way to get a passport or re new not with "when " it might be ready

 

France is OK we do have a property hear so i could stay forever and pay taxes??

 

Taken from Consular Website:

 

Contact Us:

 

If we can't answer your question on the website please call +44 208 082 4729. Calls will be charged to your credit card at GBP 0.69 + VAT per minute (your telephone provider may also charge for the international call). Please have your credit card available when calling.

 

Lines are open 24 hours a day from Mon 00:00 GMT (01:00 CET) and close Friday 23:59 GMT (Saturday 00:59 CET). Calls from a mobile phone may be higher. Please check with your mobile phone provider.

 

Please do not contact us before the expected delivery time as detailed above. We will not be able to give further information and you may be charged for this call.

 

Ambassador:

Sir Peter Westmacott KCMG, LVO

 

Address:

 

British Embassy, Paris, France

British Embassy

35, rue du Faubourg St Honoré

75363 Paris Cedex 08 Paris

 

 

 

 

 

Switchboard: (33) 1 44 51 31 00

 

Phone: (33) 1 44 51 31 00

 

 

Fax: (33) 1 44 51 31 27 Consular

 

 

Website: http://ukinfrance.fco.gov.uk/en/

 

Office hours: GMT:

Mon -Fri: 0830-1200 / 1330-1700

 

Local Time:

Mon-Fri: 0930-1300 / 1430-1800

 

 

Office hours of the British Consulates around France may vary. Visit the Consulate General in Paris page for public hours details or see our page on other locations for details of other British

 

 

 

 

 

Well they are going to be a great help aint they ,particulary if you have your money and credit cards stolen. We pay for that useless mob from taxes while they try to appear busy but have as much use as a chocolate fireguard. It would appear that when in France or any other country, Your on your own.

 

What are they there for ??

[Randonneur]

Chas:

 

Well they are going to be a great help aint they ,particulary if you have your money and credit cards stolen. We pay for that useless mob from taxes while they try to appear busy but have as much use as a chocolate fireguard. It would appear that when in France or any other country, Your on your own.

 

What are they there for ??

 

Well I can only speak for the service we have received. Last year our eldest Grandson was stuck in Cape Town with no Passport (stolen) and not enough money to apply for a new one, also his Visa had run out. The lady from the Consulate in Cape Town telephoned us in France 3 times and organised everything. To get out of Cape Town he had to have an Emergency Passport which only lasted until he was back on UK soil. Because he had no ID we had to send the money in her name but he had the password and she went with him to the Western Union Office to collect the money and within 2 days he was back in the UK. All I can say is that we got wonderful service from someone at the otherside of the world.

[Alf Stonehouse]

The phone & number are simple messages you can choose which to listen to.The expensive number is for those that want a passport or to renew & perhaps cant read or download the forms :-S

 

Contacting the embassy or consulate is impossible.To ask "when will my pass be ready impossiable.Ive contacted several consulates visited an Embassy (going over a azur blue boarder) They cant help

 

Current advice is for me to write a letter.

 

It may well be lost in the Embassy but until the staff are paid more i may never know.Its even been suggested that as my old passport was only valid for 5 years my first 10 year pass has done in the UK,which is rubbish

 

I did contact the passport office in UK and they were quite happy for me to renew in Paris while exploring France

[Randonneur]

Alf, you don't say when you applied for your new Passport. Did you send it by "Reccommande" (recorded delivery) and which address did you ask the Passport office to return it to, France or England? If you sent it by recorded delivery you should have received the second one of the slips identical to the top one they give you back at La Poste, this will be signed by the person receiving it and you will then know that it has actually got to the Passport Office.

 

We have used this Reccommande quite a lot and never had a problem, in fact we returned an Silencer Box last week using this system just waiting for the receipt, usually takes about a week.

[Alf Stonehouse]

There are three different types of recorded

 

They have the passport & have taken the money ages ago.I think there being slow as they have lost the pass within their system there are two others i know of with the same worry

 

In the end ill change my driving licence to a French one which is as good as an ID card.Even that has become more difficult im told by the prefect as to many North africans and others are exchanging forged licence for a French one or were :'(

 

What is Britain today?I only hear the BBC say how bad we are and how good the poor Taliban for example

 

My radio now has a flat battery but before it went i sat outside looking over the river with fresh salad and another glass of fizzy wine listening to cricket

 

I dont know much about cricket but it reminds me of summer.Super fun hear i hope they loose my passport & i can stay hear forever

 

There is always a catch and that catch is i do have to be back in April for two very important events and Grandmothers birthday she always hands us envelopes full of money but you do have to be there *-)