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Second Hand Motorhome prices


Dr Dave

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One of the issues may be the dealer's arrangements with the converters in which he, the dealer, is contractually obliged to take a specified number of vans per month / quarter / year in order to both fulfill his part of the contract and/or get a decent buying price.

 

Said dealer then has to shift this stock and to do so might well mean giving more in p/x than he would like just to secure the deal and keep the metal moving.

 

This is likely to keep s/h prices artificially high especially as more and more dealers struggle to meet their targets.

 

This is of course all speculation on my part and perhaps Mr Dealer can put me right where I am wrong please?

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Although not in the market to buy (our present Burstner is under 4 years old, and has to last us another couple of years at least), we tend to keep an eye on dealers forecourts, and often see unregistered 'last years' models.....I do wonder however how old the chassis is, and would always wish to know, especially with the Fiat/Peugeot base, in case it is an un-modified pre-judder one.

I assume by checking the VIN no, the build date can be checked?

 

Another question, which maybe 'motorhomedealer' can answer - if brand new, the motorhome was bought in say 12 months ago and remains unsold, he therfore purchased at the price at that time, other than one assumes the increase in VAT, at what price level would he be expecting to sell?

 

I do agree with most of the points he has made however, and whilst we all want 'value for money' fully appreciate not only his normal overheads, plus costs of investment in the vehicles on his forecourt (or bank/finance interest!), he may also have warranty costs to bear, which I think quite often may not be fully covered by the manufacturer if the vehicle is brand new, and will I assume have to be factored into his selling price if second hand? It is quite reasonable to accept he has to make a proift to stay in business!!

 

In practice from our own experience based on 5 motorhomes in something like 20 years, we have always had excellent service, and when part-exchanging, reached an acceptable compromise on prices, and have always felt we had a good relationship with the dealers both in sales and subesquent service.

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motorhomedealer - 2011-03-16 2:46 PM

 

I don't usually get involved in forums, for obvious reasons but felt that I must reply to the 'ripping off' accusation.

 

My first point is; What has VAT got to do with a 'van's worth when it's resold? You may as well argue that the dealer's original profit and the delivery cost from the manufacturer should be deducted from the price!

 

The simple fact is, that if a motorhome costs £50,000 brand new, then it will possibly be worth £47,000 if it's say, just a month old. I don't know anyone who wouldn't jump at the chance of saving £3000 on the 'van of their choice that may never have been used.

 

If it's a year old it may then be worth £42,000 and so on. All that matters in calculating second-hand prices is what the 'van is worth in relation to its new price. That new price includes VAT, the dealers profit, delivery charges from Europe possibly, but they are all irrelevent! All that matters is that it costs £50,000 new so the second-hand price is based on that.

 

I currently have a two-year old 'van on my forecourt that is only a small amount less than its new price. But when the client bought it it cost £40,000. The cost today is nearer £50,000 because in the last two years prices have risen considerably, mainly because of the decline in the value of Sterling against Euro.

 

So to buy that 'van today would cost £50K. Obviously its second-hand value is based on that and not on the original £40K and my client was very pleased I can tell you, because he got a much higher part-ex than if his 'van hadn't gone up nearly £10K since he bought it!

 

It's amazing how those who complain, unfairly in this case, about 'rip-offs', suddenly change their tune when they are selling or trading-in their 'van and want the highest price possible!

 

 

You are absolutely correct. I bought a one year old boat 20 Yrs ago @ 53K which was 64K new. Now that boat is still worth at least 45+K. Only because to buy a new one like it now would set you back at least 120K.

Glad to hear the 2Yr old Burstner I bought 2 yrs ago is still worth what I paid for it. But it's all relative, as I would have to pay a correspondingly higher price should I replace it.

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JudgeMental - 2011-03-16 6:19 PM

 

motorhomedealer - 2011-03-16 5:43 PM

 

I also question these tales of gloom and doom! My customer profile is one that is the least affected by the current recession. My average customer is not a family man with a mortgage but is more likely to be retired, or nearing retirement, with savings and no mortgage.

 

 

But this is because prices so high only wealthy older owners can afford them! UK has always been like this!

 

In Europe the market is entirely different, and young family's CAN afford NEW motorhomes...a much younger demographic and consequently a much BIGGER market, hence better value *-)

That's because most of our wealth is tied up in overpriced houses. That's not the case in the rest of Europe. There's a much bigger rental market. Which means more disposable income. Simples. :D
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I don't usually get involved in forums, for obvious reasons but felt that I must reply to the 'ripping off' accusation.

 

If you are quoting me then I think you should read my post again as I was acctually in favour of dealers and urging people not to listen to such accusations.

 

And I quote..... "So in conclusion if you want my two peneth "if you can afford new then buy new" dont listen to the folk who go on about depreciation and rip off new prices blah blah etc."

 

8o|

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If I was looking for a good used van I would do the following. Look on ebay and the like at completed auctions that have not sold. ID a van you like. discuss your interest with seller.agree a price. pay a deposit conditional on a damp check and commercial vehicle survey and HPI check. mobile engineers do this and should not cost more then £200 - a small price to pay for peace of mind.... If seller does not want to know about survey? walk away, forget this vehicle and pick another...

 

This way both seller and buyer can get a good deal with you importantly avoiding the eye watering dealer margins *-)

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JudgeMental - 2011-03-17 9:43 AM

 

If I was looking for a good used van I would do the following. Look on ebay and the like at completed auctions that have not sold. ID a van you like. discuss your interest with seller.agree a price. pay a deposit conditional on a damp check and commercial vehicle survey and HPI check. mobile engineers do this and should not cost more then £200 - a small price to pay for peace of mind.... If seller does not want to know about survey? walk away, forget this vehicle and pick another...

 

This way both seller and buyer can get a good deal with you importantly avoiding the eye watering dealer margins *-)

 

I find some of your comments both uninformed and incredibly biased! You seem to have a real hatred of dealers, but only in the UK?

 

You have already said that, if you can't sell it privately, you intend to trade-in your current 'van to a Continental dealer. Do you really think that his 'eye-watering margins' will be any different from the average British dealer? Of course they're not! If you want to see some 'eye-watering' figures you should see our operating costs for staff salaries, N.I., business rates etc. etc. etc.

 

And just because I quote the most popular prize range for used 'vans to be in the £20 - 30K you jump to the conclusion that this is all that British consumers can afford!

 

Let me try to make it as simple as possible. £20-30K is the most popular price range because there are more people who can only afford that kind of sum than there are people who can aford much more. That's the same in Germany or anywhere in Europe! It doesn't mean that we can't sell more expensive motorhomes, either used or new, just that we sell fewer 'vans at £100K than we do at £50K and fewer 'vans at £50K than we do at £25K. If we weren't selling the dearer 'vans we wouldn't get the less expensive ones that are traded in.

 

You then make the astonishing comment that families in Europe can afford to buy motorhomes more than families in the UK. I'd love to see your evidence! I regularly attend dealer seminars in Europe with my Continental colleagues, all of whom confirm that their customer demographics are identical to mine.

 

It really is simple. Families have mortgages or expensive rental costs and the cost of bringing up children. They usually already have a car so they tend to buy caravans. (I know because I sell them as well.) Buying a separate vehicle in the shape of a motorhome is out of the question for most of them as common sense should tell you that, being a family, it will have to be a largish one!

 

I've been very encouraged by most of the replies in this thread as they are from people who seem willing to believe that we are not the enemy. We do not make 'eye-watering margins' and many dealers struggle to stay in business. Why do you think that Brownhills closed so many branches? Surely they wouldn't walk away from those 'eye-watering' margins.

 

Motorhomes in the UK are more expensive than in Europe. That's because they are imported. The chassis and most internal fittings in a British-made motorhome come from Europe. Not long ago ago the the pound bought 1.50 Euro. It's now less than 1.20 Euro. The difference in prices is down to that and a smaller, right-hand drive market, not our 'eye-watering' margins.

 

Why are you happy to do business with Continental dealers whose margins are as good if not greater than mine? What has happened in your life to give you this blinkered and irrational dislike of British dealers and to think that your Continental dealer is some kind of charitable organisation.

 

Must dash now, I've someone waiting to see a £70K German 'van, and yes, they're a retired couple!

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what an arrogant and egotistical individual you are...So I am "uninformed and incredibly biased, with a hatred of UK dealers" This is both irrational and disturbing.... simply because I advise people to stay away form the like of you and buy private.... but you are revealing excellent reasons for doing so, Cut out the middle man I say! I dont need hand holding through a deal thank you very much.

 

A UK Adria van with a few extras is nearly £44000? in Germany I can get one for 32000 euro (before vat) so that equates to approx £33000 so a saving of £10000?

 

My Euramobil from browills in 2007 was an eye watering £47000 I paid under £35000 a saving of £12000 and there are plenty of stories like this....

 

Both a Belgian dealer and German dealer have offered decent PX against new van? more then I can get privately here? So buying LHD is looking advantageous yet again...

 

why would I want to pay for your margins and your perceived overheads? lol

 

 

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Have to agree with Eddie on this one, how do you explain Hymer UK aka Brownhills charge 10-20 k more than you can buy for in Germany & Belgium they also charge £1500 delivery, the normal Hymer charge anywhere else in Europe is 500€ & it's always included in the and price not tagged on as an extra.

 

I was quoted for my van 54k by Hymer UK, in Belgium after adding 3k of extras price was 41K including UK VAT & the extras (UK price for the extras was about 4k), between placing the deposit & delivery the pound dropped against the Euro by 20 points & the final price was 47k still a saving of 11k the van is RHD full UK spec.

 

I previously brought a Hobby caravan in Germany cost me 8½k UK price was 13½k German price was 37% less, with current exchange rate it would probably only be 25% less.

 

Always appears to be a lot of UK dealers going bump one can only assume because of their ridiculously high prices they can't turn over the stock.

I was in Swindon a couple of weeks ago & drove by Brownhills so stopped & had a look it was pathetic only 7 Hymers in stock 6 of them down market models the rest of the display area was very low on stock of other models, half the accessory shop had empty shelf's, gave the customer no confidence at all.

 

They claim to be the largest Motorhome dealer in Europe, what a joke.

 

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Well, I actually agree with some of the comments made by the dealer.

 

Eddie, you make no bones at all about buying in mainland Europe (ME) at every possible opportunity, and Lenny also suggests the same, so I can see why you come across as being 'biased' towards ME dealers. This doesn't make you wrong, or the dealer right, it's just that you both have differing views on where to buy motorhomes.

 

Eddie, in your case, I suggest that you are getting a better price for your current van in ME because it is LHD so that doesn't surprise me one bit as, with the UK being a RHD country, the market for a LHD van must be quite small, making your current van less appealing to UK dealers or private buyers. Similarly, I wouldn't think you'd get much of a price in ME for a RHD van.

 

As for the difference in price, I was always under the impression that the UK was a more expensive place to run a business - higher labour costs (salary, NI, Pension etc) and other running cots (land, premises, taxes etc, etc). To me therefore it seems logical that the cost of anything purchased in the UK would cost more than the equivalent item in ME. I'm sure delears would love to be able to reduce the amounts that they pay out in 'dead' money, but unfortunately I would imagine that there's not a lot they can do about it (there are of course exceptions as some dealers do seem to be rather 'greedy' but I would hope that this is the minority).

 

You are both fortunate that you are willing and able to buy new in ME but not everyone is and, if they did, then when the dealers in the UK all went out of business, where would people go for servicing, repairs etc????

 

I've just saved quite a bit of money on our 'new to us' car by buying from a smaller dealership, rather than one of the larger ones with the super-duper showrooms and massive overheads. This is probably similar to UK motorhome dealers - shop around and don't just go to the big boys unless you want to pay big boys prices. Everyone has a choice of where they 'shop', some people can't be bothered to shop around, other's make it into an art form.

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Mel the prices charged here for simply having RHD are indefensible and extortionate? Car manufacturers operated a similar cartel years ago.... *-)
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Mel B - 2011-03-17 6:17 PM

 

 

You are both fortunate that you are willing and able to buy new in ME but not everyone is and, if they did, then when the dealers in the UK all went out of business, where would people go for servicing, repairs etc????

 

I wholeheartedly agree with you. In my case I examined many foreign options but could only find what I really liked in the UK. It was expensive but then I obtained what to me is the ideal vehicle.

 

I have to agree that the assumed categorisation of UK dealers as being "greedy" is in the majority of cased ill-founded. It is interesting to note that those who source their vehicles in Europe rarely if ever attempt to sell them back there for obvious reasons. My experience suggests that although they accuse dealers of being "greedy" they will also use the very same inflated UK secondhand pricing structure that they are so critical of to gain an advantage when selling their vehicle. Nothing wrong with that at all - its just being prudent with your finances. But if you do that don't be critical of dealers making an honest living when you are seeking also to exploit the higher UK pricing structure.

 

Before you respond JudgeMental - no I am not accusing you of doing this.

 

Graham

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JudgeMental - 2011-03-17 7:40 PM

 

Mel the prices charged here for simply having RHD are indefensible and extortionate? Car manufacturers operated a similar cartel years ago.... *-)

 

I have some sympathy with your argument that UK prices are higher. But what really annoys me is your ill-informed and quite obviously biased remarks, using such phrases as 'Eye watering profit margins'. UK dealer margins are no bigger or better than our colleagues in Europe. Higher UK prices come from the Continental manufacturers and revolve around lower turnover, ofter higher specification and the complication of production lines manufacturing small numbers of RHD vehicles. Whether you choose to believe me or not is up to you but I can assure you that it's not dealers who are to blame.

 

The next paragraph is another of yours, which against just displays a total ignorance of the market and of business.

 

'The dealers post here shows the state of play... with some paying sellers over the top to close a PX deal and keep them happy. Consequently UK prices are inflated compared to Europe, where market bigger and more competitive. and the poor old used buyer gets taken for a mug.'

 

First of all you accuse us of making too high a margin but in the same thread you accuse of paying far too much for our trade-ins. So what are we Judgemental? Are we too generous with our customers or are we too greedy? You're contradicting yourself in such a way that it's almost laughable!

 

I'm sorry that you have this totally blinkered view of what is a very competitive and tough business. I'm even more sorry that you seem to be incapable of being reasonable and can only jump to the very worst assumptions when talking about British dealers whilst having no problem of lining the pockets of foreigners when your LHD 'van fails to sell on eBay.

 

I entered this thread to put right a totally false assumption about VAT on used motorhomes and I have no wish to get involved any further. Apart from which I've had a couple of private messages from people who warn me of debating with you as you apparently have 'previous' for being, in their words not mine 'Take no notice of him he is rude ignorant arrogant and biased in favour of whatever he thinks is right and everyone else is always wrong.'

 

I shall leave you to your prejudices but to the other more fair-minded members of this forum I can assure you that most dealers are not the enemy. We do not have 'eye-watering margins' and neither do we, as Judgemental in another of his silly statements claims, have 'perceived' operating costs. Our operating costs are real and are very high. My employers NI goes up 8% next month along with many other costs!

 

Thank you for allowing me to contribute. I shall get on with trying to secure the future of my business and the employment of my many hard-working British staff!

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Yes you are a living saint.... we are lucky to have you walking among us......... do you want to say who you are? ...No I thought not lol

 

Lining foreigners pockets am I? lol Such Jingoism from one so bitter. And there was me thinking we where in a common market, dear oh dear.......I suggest you save your nonsense for someone easily impressed and more nieave then me:D

 

anyway my Mum told me never to talk to strangers :-S

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Perhaps I'm an odd character, I refuse to allow money to be my god, I choose the product first (whether it be a M/H or a garden spade), according to what it gives me and allows me to do with it, I then pay accordingly within the dealers and my expectations, (in the case of the M/H).

 

Would I go to Europe to buy NO, I cannot be bothered. If I were 40 years younger maybe, perhaps to keep boasting how I could save money, well maybe. (I have a friend who flies to the Czech Republic to buy cheap beer simply to boast about it).

 

I read with interest that the overseas buyers keep on trading in, which surely has mounting costs and depreciation, plus wear and tear on one's own body, I choose the right M/H first time therefore I have very likely 'saved much more' than all those buying in Europe.

 

When the time arrives for the M/H to go, (about 3 years at a guess) so what, I've had my fill and what ever I get for it I shall smile and accept the next stage in my life with no regrets. Life is too short to keep "Saving money", spend it and use it.

 

Some while ago I had a museum full of ancient historic cycles, now all gone, so who cares, that will be the same with the M/H.

 

art

 

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Judge,

 

One wonders as you are so well equipped with European prices, why do you not become involved yourself in industrial matters such as running a business?

 

I'm sure you could do well as you seem to be able to calculate the costings well.

 

art

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JudgeMental - 2011-03-17 12:14 PM

 

what an arrogant and egotistical individual you are...So I am "uninformed and incredibly biased, with a hatred of UK dealers" This is both irrational and disturbing.... simply because I advise people to stay away form the like of you and buy private.... but you are revealing excellent reasons for doing so, Cut out the middle man I say! I dont need hand holding through a deal thank you very much.

 

A UK Adria van with a few extras is nearly £44000? in Germany I can get one for 32000 euro (before vat) so that equates to approx £33000 so a saving of £10000?

 

My Euramobil from browills in 2007 was an eye watering £47000 I paid under £35000 a saving of £12000 and there are plenty of stories like this....

 

Both a Belgian dealer and German dealer have offered decent PX against new van? more then I can get privately here? So buying LHD is looking advantageous yet again...

 

why would I want to pay for your margins and your perceived overheads? lol

 

 

 

 

reasoning judge, 35k in 2007, you are now moaning you cant get 27k for your van in uk not suprised! because we know your left hooker got cheaper in eu, so in reality its worth 22k. soz but im with the dealer..you just want to make a quick buck :-S

jon

 

and what art338 says im with that

and in the uk market its 20k maybe!!

fact of life judge.. soz

8k reduction on a 4 yr old van ..get real

jon

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art338 - 2011-03-17 10:19 PMPerhaps I'm an odd character, I refuse to allow money to be my god, I choose the product first (whether it be a M/H or a garden spade), according to what it gives me and allows me to do with it, I then pay accordingly within the dealers and my expectations,

 

My sentiments exactly, I couldnt have put it better myself.

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Jon, where did I start "moaning" re selling? can you behave yourself and not jump on this knocking me bandwagon, without any justification please, as I have had enough?

 

And No you are wrong...... They are for sale from around 30.000 Euro upwards on Mobile.de (main German sales site) Belgian and German dealer have offered 31000 and 30000 respectively (approx £26000) and a UK dealer offered £23000 just straight purchase. All I was looking for was a similar amount privately. That way I could order the Hymer car 322 (my wifes preference) from Belgian Hymer dealer that only stocks Hymers and offers no PX. But I am happy to get the Adria as I prefer that and it is 2011 van of the year in MMM

 

Why I have to justify myself to the likes of you with your amount of prejudice beggars belief! But I hope that clears that one up for you*-)

 

 

Peter lol NO here we do not go again *-)

 

I actually like the motor home dealers participation, he seems a fair chap I just wish he did not arrive with a load of baggage and started selectively criticising me. But at the same time ignoring what I and others said regards disparity in pricing.

 

I just dont see the need for the cloak and dagger stuff? and the need to be anonymous. other forums have a dealer presence which is transparent and honest...I just dont get this and I dont like it OK?

 

I prefer going to shows like Dusseldorf, it is a wonderful motorhome experience, with the chance to see latest and best, well displayed. I have tried to buy here and have given examples of my frustrations in the past so will not repeat myself

 

But to Mr dealer can we please start again as I dont want to be the one responsible for putting you of this forum..... *-)

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ips - 2011-03-18 8:21 AM

 

art338 - 2011-03-17 10:19 PMPerhaps I'm an odd character, I refuse to allow money to be my god, I choose the product first (whether it be a M/H or a garden spade), according to what it gives me and allows me to do with it, I then pay accordingly within the dealers and my expectations,

 

My sentiments exactly, I couldnt have put it better myself.

 

Exactly but why would I want to pay an £11000 premium to buy in the UK when we live EU which is a single market place.

 

Show me British dealers offering German vans at sensible prices and I'll consider buying in the UK.

It has to be a German van as having had British caravans in the past I would never ever buy a British product in this market place again. I prefer to keep my water in the garden pond not the caravan walls!

 

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lennyhb - 2011-03-18 9:10 AM

 

ips - 2011-03-18 8:21 AM

 

art338 - 2011-03-17 10:19 PMPerhaps I'm an odd character, I refuse to allow money to be my god, I choose the product first (whether it be a M/H or a garden spade), according to what it gives me and allows me to do with it, I then pay accordingly within the dealers and my expectations,

 

My sentiments exactly, I couldnt have put it better myself.

 

Exactly but why would I want to pay an £11000 premium to buy in the UK when we live EU which is a single market place.

 

Show me British dealers offering German vans at sensible prices and I'll consider buying in the UK.

It has to be a German van as having had British caravans in the past I would never ever buy a British product in this market place again. I prefer to keep my water in the garden pond not the caravan walls!

 

Believe me! I tried to buy my new van here but the attitudes I encountered where astonishing! And like Lenny said I have better things to do with my money thanks very much :D

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We bought our first van in 2005, in France.  Before buying, and while researching what we wanted, we went to shows and dealers in UK and, as we refined our selection we became convinced that, as we would use the van mainly in ME, we wanted left hand drive.  We therefore enquired about getting a LHD van in UK and, not getting "pro active" responses from UK dealers, started visiting French dealers and the Paris salon.  We were surprised at the price differences in the same vans in France compared to UK and, thanks to some excellent information from the late Mel Eastburn, realised that buying in France and importing back to the UK was straightforward.

Having by then decided what van we wanted (a Burstner, made in Germany), and now wishing to see how LHD and motorhoming worked for us in practise, we hired a similar van for a week in France.  We returned completely convinced about the motorhome, and about LHD, and went back to several UK dealers enquiring again about sourcing LHD.  Some might be able to do so, but it would be more expensive, some could at a small saving, and some couldn't be bothered.  No names.  I took with me a copy of a French magazine that I knew reported the "on the road" prices of new vans reasonably realistically.  I showed the UK dealers the prices in Euros, and invited them to get closer, because I should have preferred to have dealt with a UK dealer.  None could, or would, so we bought in Calais, which is actually closer to where we live than all save one of the UK dealers for the make. 

The van was then equipped with MPH speedo, and new headlamps for left hand traffic, and was properly registered in UK with UK VAT paid.  In doing this, we got the van we wanted, with a better specification than was available in UK (which is to say the options we got in France were not available, at any price, in UK), and the van cost us £5,000 less than the nearest equivalent, but lower spec, van from any UK dealer.

Our primary objective had been to buy a van, not to save money.  Quite how one is supposed to do the one, while also doing the other, as some have suggested, rather escapes me.  If you want to save, or make, money, you don't buy, and use, motorhomes, period!

Two years later, after a lot of soul searching, we decided we had made a mistake with our choice, and again started searching the market.  Again we found what we wanted, and again it was made in Germany (Hobby).  In the meantime insurance for the import had become more difficult so, because of this, and because there were no Hobby dealers handy for Calais, Dieppe, Ouistreham or Cherbourg, to simplify the process I approached Bundesvan (who import to order) to see what they could offer.  Knowing the German and French prices for the Van, and the UK prices for the identical model, I found that, even paying someone else to go and get it, import it back, pay the VAT, and register it in UK the saving, compared to the best UK price on offer (with no stock to hand) at the time (2007) was again (with a far worse exchange rate this time) some £5,000 lower.  So, you do the sums.  UK price £35,000, imported price, delivered to door, £29,347.11.

The important question is why.  During my original enquiries (2005) I was told by the UK representative of one German manufacturer (neither Burstner nor Hobby) that the factory gate price of a RHD model was in the order of £500 more than the factory gate price of a nominally identical LHD model.  This difference being attributed to the higher cost of the RHD chassis, due to lower volumes.  Cost of delivery, I was told, was little different, irrespective of the Channel.  When I asked him why the vans were in the order of £5,000 more expensive in UK, all I got was a Delphic smile!

Bearing in mind the ME dealer must also make a profit, and that my experience compares a direct purchase from a French dealer, and an indirect purchase from a German dealer via an intermediary, why were the vans in the order of 16% more costly in UK?  Are France and Germany (where both vans were made) such cut price countries?  Are their taxes, including VAT, that much lower than in UK?  Do the proprietors and employees of the manufacturers and dealers lack pensions, or cars, or wear rags?  Do these countries look and feel impoverished compared to UK?  Are their offspring worse educated that ours?  Is their healthcare worse the ours?  Are their roads in worse condition than ours?  Are their railways worse run, and worse at timekeeping, than ours?  Have you actually been to France and/or Germany over the past five years - really?

So, what can explain a 14% differential in the cost of a motorhome just by crossing the Channel?  I have to confess I cannot begin to explain the difference: it seems far too great to be accounted for by any of the above variations between states, and yet, there it is.  It seems clear the price at which the manufacturer puts his van into a dealership in France or Germany must still allow him to make his profit.  It also seems clear the dealership who sells that van at a price, on the road, some 14% lower than is asked for the same van by a UK dealership, must also allow him to make a profit.  These dealers aren't fly-by-night operators, operating out of cardboard boxes and below the radar of the authorities, they are substantial enterprises.  So, if anyone know the answer, I'm genuinely interested to hear what it is.

In the meantime, as to whether this is about making savings, my answer is this.  I, I suspect like most, have limited resources.  Motorhomes are expensive to buy and to run.  However, I have no desire to scrimp my way around Europe looking to save every penny to make the trips affordable, but prefer to travel, and live, in fair comfort and to be able to eat, and drink, what I choose, what is local, when and where I choose, be it in the van, or in a restaurant.  We don't "do" fish and chips from a newspaper, or hamburgers from some fast food outlet.  So, to fit the ambition to the means available, the saving on purchase price through buying abroad is not so much a saving, as a way to get a better equipped and specified van for the same cost as a less well equipped, and I think less well made, van bought in UK.  Do I expect everyone else to agree?  No.  But I would expect a little more informed reality as to the reason for that huge price differential, especially from some of those whose sole purpose for living at times seems to be to save pennies at every turn.  So come on then, lets be 'avin yer!  Apologies for further OT.  :-D

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