Aires Co-ordinates - accuracy?

[laimeduck]

I am new to Aires, and am somewhat confused! (not a rare condition!)

For example, I have i-Campingcars Aires & Archies- Europe lists of co-ordinates.

If I put the co-ordinates from these lists eg for Arromanches, into either Google maps, Google Earth or my Garmin Nuvi 200, it takes me to a spot a few hundred metres from the actual Aire (which I happen to know).

(And the same happens for another Aire I know in Castellane)

Is this the accuracy? If so I can foresee problems in built up areas where a few hundred metres is akin to miles in terms of finding the Aire.

Or as usual am I missing something?

Jeremy the L'AimeDuck

[Robinhood]

I've usually found both Archies and Campingcar-Infos POIS pretty accurate when I've used them to find either sites or aires.

 

I don't know the aire at Arromanches, but I lifted the coordinates from Campingcar-Infos (49.33904, -0.62553) and put them into Google Maps.

 

The resulting Green Arrow indicates what looks like the entrance to an aire (and just about spot on).

 

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=49.33904,+-0.62553&aq=&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=18.021622,46.538086&ie=UTF8&ll=49.338994,-0.625137&spn=0.002419,0.005681&t=h&z=18

 

Is this result similar to yours?

 

Edit:

 

(BTW, I note you use a different set of POIs for the aires - if they don't give you the correct result I would suggest you might try one of the other free sets - I also have found the Bordatlas POIs for Stellplatze pretty accurate.)

 

I've just used the coordinates from the i-Campingcars site, and I agree - well away from where they should be!

 

I would strongly advise you to switch to the very comprehensive set of POIs available at at www.campingcar-infos.com - which I have found to be good.

 

 

[Barryd999]

I agree the Camping Car infos site POI for Aires is spot on and pretty much up to date.

 

Just out of interest if your going to Arromanches the Aire is a little cramped. Ideal if you want to stroll into town but there is also parking allowed on the cliff top at the 360 degree cinema here http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=49.339147,-0.615191&num=1&t=h&sll=49.338164,-0.622396&sspn=0.014542,0.032015&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=49.338336,-0.616136&spn=0.002831,0.010525&z=17

 

And one of my favourite spots and a place that is well worth a visit at Longues-sur-Mer which is the most intact Atlantic Wall Gun Battery in France. Super views out to sea. Just a couple of miles west of Arromanches.

 

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=49.345865,-0.689478&num=1&t=h&sll=49.338336,-0.616136&sspn=0.002831,0.010525&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=49.345879,-0.689521&spn=0.002831,0.010525&z=17

 

[laimeduck]

Thanks Robinhood - You are right, its the co-ordinates on i-Campingcar that are inaccurate! Their POI for Arromanches puts the Aire on Rue du Mezeray, some 3-400 metres due South. (Chocolate teapot stuff!)

Shame - as this is in searchable .pdf format, meaning you don't need internet to access it. I suppose it can still be used to identify places with Aires, then a WiFi connection will be needed to actually find the correct co-ordinates on Campingcar-infos. - Clumsy!

I have Campingcar info in my favourites and will use this as first choice & double check now.

A less perplexed Jeremy the L'AimeDuck! 

[starvin marvin]

laimeduck - 2011-04-03 8:52 AM

I am new to Aires, and am somewhat confused! (not a rare condition!)

For example, I have i-Campingcars Aires & Archies- Europe lists of co-ordinates.

If I put the co-ordinates from these lists eg for Arromanches, into either Google maps, Google Earth or my Garmin Nuvi 200, it takes me to a spot a few hundred metres from the actual Aire (which I happen to know).

(And the same happens for another Aire I know in Castellane)

Is this the accuracy? If so I can foresee problems in built up areas where a few hundred metres is akin to miles in terms of finding the Aire.

Or as usual am I missing something?

Jeremy the L'AimeDuck

We use Aires and free camps a lot and find regularly that GPS Co-ords are wrong in about 1 out of 3 locations, some by a lot, others wrong but pretty close, and I'm not talking about the satnav taking a stupid route. I've got no idea why this should be a problem, but it sure is.As you suggest this is worst when in urban areas. One thing for sure is that don't expect a Co-ord to take you straight to the aire, use what my wife calls her "vandar", she can usually spot a parked van, when I can only see trees or whatever. The more you use aires and free camps, the more you get a feel for where they are likely to be.

[Robinhood]

laimeduck - 2011-04-03 10:17 AM

Shame - as this is in searchable .pdf format, meaning you don't need internet to access it. I suppose it can still be used to identify places with Aires, then a WiFi connection will be needed to actually find the correct co-ordinates on Campingcar-infos. - Clumsy!

....one of the advantages of having MS Autoroute on the netbook is that the same set(s) of POI coordinates can be used to provide good capability for off-line (internet free) searches. I generally only use the Satnag for real-time use, whilst driving, or looking for the closest site/aire when we pass through somewhere we decide we like, but hadn't planned to stop.

[laimeduck]

Barry thanks - We parked for the day in the small Aire at Arromanches last October, & walked up the hill to the 360 Cinema & we saw the M/H's there.

And yes - we spent a few hours at Longues-sur-Mer - totally agree a lovely spot in good weather.

We actually stayed in Port-en-Bessin, Camping Port'Land - Very expensive but very comfortable with all the bells & whistles. Not a site for high season but Port-en-Bessin a very pleasant little town out of season - but that was before we found out about Aires!

Roll on June!

[Guest Tracker]

It is not unusual for coordinates to vary and some of this can be caused by slight abberations in the satellite signal either when it was originally noted or when you look for it.

 

Nevertheless you should usually be close enough for a bit of Mk 1 eyeball exercise to find the right location and if it were too easy it wouldn't be fun now would it!

 

How did we all manage pre sat nav I wonder and how would we cope now if we had to rely on maps and written directions alone - it used to be called navigation!

[Basil]

laimeduck - 2011-04-03 10:17 AM

Thanks Robinhood - You are right, its the co-ordinates on i-Campingcar that are inaccurate! Their POI for Arromanches puts the Aire on Rue du Mezeray, some 3-400 metres due South. (Chocolate teapot stuff!)

Shame - as this is in searchable .pdf format, meaning you don't need internet to access it. I suppose it can still be used to identify places with Aires, then a WiFi connection will be needed to actually find the correct co-ordinates on Campingcar-infos. - Clumsy!

I have Campingcar info in my favourites and will use this as first choice & double check now.

A less perplexed Jeremy the L'AimeDuck! 

Hi laimeduck, the Campingcar Infos site has POI downloads ready produced for TomTom and a database that you apparently can convert to Garmin, not sure how perhaps someone can advise, that puts all the Aires onto your satnav. We have used this without problem for many years and the POI's take you straight ot where you want to go you don't need to enter Lon Lat coordinates just the POI.See http://www.campingcar-infos.com/Francais/telechargement.phpBas

[laimeduck]

Tracker - 2011-04-03 1:17 PM It is not unusual for coordinates to vary and some of this can be caused by slight abberations in the satellite signal either when it was originally noted or when you look for it. Nevertheless you should usually be close enough for a bit of Mk 1 eyeball exercise to find the right location and if it were too easy it wouldn't be fun now would it! How did we all manage pre sat nav I wonder and how would we cope now if we had to rely on maps and written directions alone - it used to be called navigation!

In the case of i-CampingCar info, they are simply wrong by 400 metres! In urban setting this could be 7-8 streets away, not easily eyeballed! http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/images/emoticons/icon_sad.gif

I do agree however that Sat Navs are only useful if used in conjunction with a paper map a bit of planning and a big dose of common sense!

I usually only programme the two nearest waypoints on my route, then update the second one regularly. This ensures I go via the roads I want, not where Madame SatNag wants!

And the sound is always turned to Mute!http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/images/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

My other hobby is offshore sailing, so navigation holds no fears, except when you see the dangerous rocks behind you!http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/images/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

(However, being realistic,  400 metres out when sailing would not be very clever?)

[Brian Kirby]

The problems are twofold.  First, people will enter the co-ordinates from where they are sited, instead of at the entrance.  This is probably not too bad with aires, but can have strange results for a sat nav with campsites, if the coordinates relate to a pitch remote from the entrance, and possibly closer to another road.  Second, it is clear many, especially the French, seem to give coordinates for a town in general, and then append detailed directions for how to get to whatever it is in the form of notes.  I can only assume these date back to versions of sat navs that did not carry street level mapping, meaning coordinates for the actual location would involve being guided up alleyways etc, so following the written instructions was safer.  Until they have all been re-edited/corrected it just seems to be a fact of life one has to be aware of.  But then, they are free downloads, and represent a lot of generous effort by many people to compile, so I think one should accept them for what they are, and use with caution.  With up to date mapping, the current devices will deliver you to within about two metres of the given coordinates, so it is only accuracy of the coordinates that may cause problems.

[Travelling Tyke]

Hello,

I have not checked, but, the problem may be caused by the different methods of using the co-ordinates.

Some could Just be "Degrees" ie say 57 decimal bla bla

Others "Degrees and decimal minutes" ie 57,30 decimal Bla bla

Whilst others "Degrees, minutes and seconds" 57,30,30 decimal bla bla

 

It depends on what systems was used to record the site verses the Sat Nav settings of the user. (as well as the accuracy of each of course.

 

Try Google Earth top tool bar, select "tools" then "options". On the left hand side of the window, 1/2 way down there is a "choice" of settings. Have a play with them with the "same co-ord No.s to see what I mean.

It is easy not to notice the decimal point/comma when inputting info.

[MandyAndy]

We have quite a few downloads in our TT but find we use these nearly every time along with the book so we can compare the two. It even gives you the page number to find it in the book if you are searching a particular area.

 

http://camperstop.facilemedia.nl/en/gps_en.html

 

Mandy

[Retread24800]

We have a lot of Aires forced into our Garmin 340

we get them from http://www.gpspassion.com/forumsen/topic.asp?topic_id=30654 

They ask users to verify the occasional unverified coordinates when you use them, seems only fair for a free service! To date hav'nt needed to argue with anyone : 

We also use a mark 1 eyeball or two (one each) when entering a town theres usually road signs directing you toward the aire or point de service.

[John J Thompson]

Up to date mapping is not necessarily the answer Brian.

 

We damaged out Nuvi 5000 and had it replaced by Garmin in March.

 

We are in Spain and it now tends to ignore the main road through a town and will direct you up side streets only to cross the main road again to go down another side street. It sometimes will try to direct me to follow a square pattern of streets rather than go straight over from one edge to the other. In Cartegena it directed me to a Fort on the right side of the harbour with reasonable access road by taking me down the other shore to a pier and then told me to navigate "OFF ROAD"

 

From Alicanti to Cartegena there is a good AP-7 road. I do not have it set to avoid tolls so there was no reason for it not to use this road but instead it directed us way out of our way to Murcia on the A7 and then back to Cartegena on the A30. This added many Ks and about half an our to the journey. The old sat nav would have and had directed us down the coast on the AP7.

 

We are heading back to the UK at the end of the month so Joan will be on map duty and we shall ignore any directions that Joan does not agree with. If it make mistakes on the way home it is going back to Garmin under guarantee.

[neilmac]

John J Thompson - 2011-04-25 9:04 AM

From Alicanti to Cartegena there is a good AP-7 road. I do not have it set to avoid tolls so there was no reason for it not to use this road but instead it directed us way out of our way to Murcia on the A7 and then back to Cartegena on the A30. This added many Ks and about half an our to the journey. The old sat nav would have and had directed us down the coast on the AP7.

 

This bit sounds odd. We use TomTom and there is a subtle difference between selecting 'shortest' and 'fastest' routes whether tolls are selected or not. Shortest will try and take you through towns rather than round them and fastest will more likely take you on ring roads as long as the roads are not too recent for the internal mapping of the machine. Our sat nav is a bit out of date, especially for the many new roads in Spain and we are often seemingly 'off road' :-D

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

I've posted this comment before some months ago, but worth repeating, in our experience take nothing for granted when it comes to sat nav accuracy, we have found ourselves through slavishly following it, the opposite side of a river in Normandy to the aire, in a milk processing plant, directed on to a high speed tram track in Le-Mans, arrived in the middle of a deserted French farm to be told "you have reached your destination" And locally where we live the council have had to resort to putting up a sign prohibiting HGV's from entering a very narrow one way lane that all versions of sat nav's that I have tried insist on directing you, completely ignoring the main road,despite using every vehicle setting, or routing preferences that you set. I have in the main now started to only use it very infrequently, relying instead on old methods. A friend who is a keen sailor thinks the fatal flaw is the technology was originally devised for sea travel, and one can see that finding your way from one sea port to another would not demand the sort of road route mapping accuracy to locate an Aire in a French village, perhaps he's right. :-|

[Retread24800]

The sat nav must have saved many a Marriage :-)

Personally I alway (mostly) use the fastest routeing, it keeps you away from cart tracks etc, like all computers the sat nav is an idiot, and we should all remember the age old Mantra....Garbage in = Garbage out, Oh and as for turning down unsuitable roads, why?

Sailors (not boaters) use their Sat Nav to check their position, First get out the chart, tide tables, weather forecast etc etc. plot your required route, make allowances for tides, currents, winds, rocks, shoals and small continents in the way. at each change in direction enter these as way points and then set off checking that you are on course by the sat nav and the traditional methods. so many supertankers have ended up on the rocks that only a totally irrisponsible navigator would rely on the thing                  bout what I do when planning a journey by land Yacht!!!

[Phil of Plymouth]

Just back from 2 months in France and the Sat Nav proved less than totally reliable.

 

Having suffered much I believe it is down to mapping, our co ordinates are based I believe on OS maps which are brilliant - the french mapping system is I fear far less so.

 

Be grateful to OS.