MMM Motorhome Testing

[Smick]

I have to admit that I enjoy the motorhome tests in MMM - I must do, I've been reading them for 20 years - but can't help feeling that a touch of bias slips in from time to time. We all have our favourite vans, but some seem to get an easier ride than others.

 

In the April edition, the Murvi Morocco got its usual thumbs up from Di & Pete Johnson, along with the usual plaudits for the Morello as well. I'm well aware that Murvi owners have a brand loyalty second to none, and I don't have a problem with that, but if you ask a reviewer who is a Murvi owner to review a Murvi, then he/she is hardly likely to give it a hard time. When I look back through some of the more recent Murvi reviews, quite a number have been reviewed by....Di & Pete Johnson. I know that the Johnsons are Murvi afficionados, and if it suits them, fine, but I just wonder how impartial they can be as far as the marque is concerned.

 

Having owned a Murvi for a year some time back, there are still features of the design which I - and others I have spoken to - feel could be addressed and improved. Much is made of Murvi's "evolution", and whilst they have been developments, I have no doubt that with a long waiting list, the firm see no reason to question their product.

 

Now this is not a post about Murvi - it's intended as a post about the impartiality of reviewers of new vans, and the impressions given to prospective owners. I feel that if the van were reviewed by other members of the test team, some different views might well emerge, and then prospective customers can identify possible differences of opinion that they need to look at when deciding whether to buy.

 

I'll now don my tin hat and wait for the storm of abuse...

 

Smick

[Rayjsj]

I think you are probably right, however I like Di & Pete's style of writing, and they don't keep 'banging on', and marking vans down, for not having 3 point seat belts in the back, when a van is quite clearly intended for a couple. It's like the 'public health warnings' contained in TV Soaps (the reason i stopped watching them). Pete makes a mention of his height now and again, and Di about the lack of hers, but that helps with the idea of whether the van would fit YOU or not. I much prefere the 'Mature' point of view of vans tested, (as we 'mature's' make up the majority of New van purchasers anyway). And am not interested in how many 'child seats' can be fitted into a 'nasty' 'Pullman' lounge. And as soon as we see any ladders or climbing involved in getting to bed........forget it. On the whole I like MMM's van testing (and keep all the past issues as referance). and think it's the BEST bar none. Ray ;-)

 

my favourite 'testers' are Andy & Marion (aka fag-ash) Stothert, they pull NO punches, which is probably why they don't seem to do many lately ?? A great shame, as a bit of honest(northern bigotry) goes a long way with me. ;-)

[Poppy]

Would definately agree with you about Andy and Marion Sothert.

[Mel B]

Hi Smick, welcome to the mad house! :->

 

I do agree with you, especially the article from Di & Pete Johnson. As soon as I read that they were reviewing yet another Murvi I knew exactly what was coming and wasn't wrong. :-S

 

Some of the developments incorporated into the Morocco are very good, the slide out single bed layout for example, but other things just annoy, like the large amount of space taken up on the upper cabinets for what appears to be a massive speaker (or is it a mirror?), which would be much better put to use as another easily accessible cupboard. I wish the reviewers did vans of a make that they didn't own - whilst I can see the logic for someone who owns a van conversion, reviewing another one, doing the same make as theirs is always going to be, to some extend I believe, biased in favour of it.

 

As you say, the real champions for all good and bad points, are Andy and Marion ... shame they don't appear to want to let them loose on them!!! :D

[Guest pelmetman]

MMM could do with some reviews of older vans........as not everyone can afford a new van, I know they can get a copy of a old review, but it would be nice to see reviews of vans at 5k, 10k, 15k etc B-)

 

Doubt the advertisers of new vans would like it :-S but it would bring in new people to this hobby at an earlier age :D

[Mel B]

They have actually done some cheaper/older vans not that long back if I remember rightly.

 

I must admit though, I do get quite fed up of reading that a £50k van with some 'design faults' are worth the money ... even without the faults that's a heck of a lot of dosh!

[Guest pelmetman]

Mel B - 2011-04-04 7:45 PM

 

They have actually done some cheaper/older vans not that long back if I remember rightly.

 

I must admit though, I do get quite fed up of reading that a £50k van with some 'design faults' are worth the money ... even without the faults that's a heck of a lot of dosh!

 

Have they 8-) ......must of missed it, mind you I dont subscribe so probably didn't get that issue :D

[colin]

I went to view a 'quality' van the day after an MMM writer had it for a review. Much was made in the review of the quality of build, what wasn't mentioned, and the dealer also hadden't seen was the missing casette blind next to bed and the various screws and fittings that had fell off during transit :-S

Also to be considered is that a lot of Adria Twins are proboly running around with a overloaded front axle and this was 'Van of Year' in it's catogory a while back.

IMO these reviews can only be regarded as 'pointers' as to layout and possible suitabilty, you still have to make your own more thourh investigations, which in case of Twin is not something your average punter would be easily able to do.

[starvin marvin]

No need for a tin hat, I think you're correct. However I also like Di Johnson's style of writing and she does review other vans from time to time. My other favourite reviewer/tester is the top tester Mr J Lloyd.

 

My most disliked are Dave Hurrell who in my view along with Andy Stothert should be put out to grass. The first for being unable to deliver a real assessment, ie the early Fiat X250 and continuing to missing the obvious. The other for being tedious with his one "joke pony" routine and for not being bothered to properly test an early Fiat X250. Oh yes and for the chocolate box photos, why they get a full page spread beats me.

 

Lets see if Dan the man gets to grip with the mag, it needs a shake up.

 

The most interesting reviewers are the ones like Andrew & Rona Bromley, perhaps they have no ego to polish, just a van to review.

[Rayjsj]

Totally disagree with 'Marvin' about Andy's photo's, they have inspired me to go to many of the places he has visited, Mull, Western Isles,Ardurmuchan etc., and they have NOT dissapointed, he should get paid by the Scottish Tourist board !!! and I like his 'Blunt wit', agree about John Lloyd though a very good tester, still waiting for his 'Renault master Panel van' users multi-test. Dave Hurrell needs to 'Team up' with a woman again (sorry if a bit personal !!) to give better more balanced tests, and I miss Suzanne in the pictures, What about Clive and his missus doing some more Tests ?? 8-) Ray

[Brian Kirby]

Bias is a bit like sin.  Let he who is without cast the first stone?  :-)

However, what I don't like is the sheer subjectivity of much of the reviewing, by which I mean the opinion of the tester as to what decor s/he finds agreeable (in my opinion they mostly have naff taste, poor dears, so it annoys even more), rather than straight reportage, ideally aided by a standard scoreboard against each aspect of the van. 

Oh yes, and endless references to "comfy" which, apart from being lazy, I think a horrible word!  :-)

[art338]

Same old story don't believe anyone and do your homework well before buying.

 

art

[auntygranty]

I suppose most of us like reading the reviews of Vans in MMM and other mags, perhaps this is one of the reasons to shell out for them in the first place. my view is generally MMM does a good job in this respect but reviewers will always have their favourite maufacturers and own opinions which I don't always agree with. Dave Hurrell's views have grown on me over the years, although I thought he gave the new Hymer an easy time for a vehicle with a price tag of £77.000. I have also noticed that Autosleepers appear to do no wrong! I hate to throw this in but one of my favourite motorhome reviewers is Mr George Hinton of the caravan club am I allowed to mention him? Auntygranty

[AliB]

Too many of the tests are just a description of the fittings and features and do not comment on how well they work. You can gleam the same information from the manufacturer’s brochure.

If testing a 6 berth family van how comfortable are the rear passenger seats? The recent test on the new Hymer with the fold out rear seats gave no such information. What’s it like to travel in these seats, can you still communicate with a child in the rear if you are in the front, can the rear passenger see out of any of the windows? Does sitting so far back in vehicle cause you to be swayed around on corners?

 

How does the layout work for a family on site? Is it possible to give a teenage daughter or son some privacy to get dressed while mum/dad uses the kitchen for breakfast preparation? If you have young kids how does the layout work if they need to go to bed early and the older folk want to stay up reading or enjoying a drink?

On the road testing – I’ve read statements like “conversion noise is typical for this type of vehicle”. What does that mean? We should be told it is still possible, or not, to hold a conversation with the front/ rear passengers at 50 mph but becomes strained above that speed..

Standard audio equipment – can it be set so as only the rear passenger speakers are active?

Are there power points (12V) near the rear seats if you wish to use a portable DVD player?

One bloke testing a family motorhome will never be able to comment on the suitability of the product for the intended purpose.

 

[Hawcara]

About 3 years ago, when we had our caravan, I wrote to Practical Caravan and I think to the Caravan Club about the poor construction of the rear 'bumper' on caravans. I suggested that they should be made of stronger plastic, not so brittle and cheaper to repair.

Unsurprisingly, I did not get a reply. Some cynical soul, stated that perhaps the magasines concerned did not want to irritate the manufacturers.

Since that time I have viewed the reviews lightly, the specifications are relevant and comments on other items, but I do feel that they could be a lot more critical. Let's face it car mags are. One can look up any item on the internet and find critical appraisal, but struggle with motorhomes.

Perhaps if MMM and other magazines were more objective in their reviews then may not circulation increase.

I have learnt a great deal more from this forum, than ever I would have from the mag.

By the way, which is the correct spelling magazine or magasine? Which one do you store ammo in and which do you read? :-D

[Brian Kirby]

auntygranty - 2011-04-05 11:23 AM ............I hate to throw this in but one of my favourite motorhome reviewers is Mr George Hinton of the caravan club am I allowed to mention him? Auntygranty

Of course you are, because it gives me the chance to disagree!  :-)  Bland and frequently misleading for a start, and the poor chap still can't work out the difference between a caravan and a motorhome.

[Keith T]

One thing which I find not only annoying but in my view untrue, is the description of 'compact vans', which seem to have grown to about 6mplus...when I first had a campervan in 1991, most vans were at max 18' and around 7' max wide.....and fitted quite well into car parking spaces with a bit of overlap over the usual grass verge etc.

Our optimum length/width was either the Compass which at 17'6 was great, or the Rapido 710F which I think was just over 18', but both on width and layout (as well as build quality) scored top marks in my view..

Now, with our Burstner at just over 6m, and 7.6 plus mirrors, there is a necessity to find a parking space which either runs to two tandem spaces, or two side by side plsu an overhang, and it seems that car park spaces are in fact themselvess getting narrower....!

 

interestingly, we often have a gander around new models at Dealers or shows, and find so many 'design' faults..simple matters quite often.

.......particuarly on one model van conversion from a well known manufacturer,where you have to remove the loo cassette through the 'wall' of theshower room into the kitchen area - where there is hardly enough room to swing the proverbial cat, then do a 90degree turn to extricate it either via the rear doors, or the other way through the interior of the van .....

...and what about the TV locations where you walk straight into them at head height if your other half is watching the TV, and the cookers/microwaves placed so high up that any 'normal' height person cannot safelky extract the contents!

[Dave Tayside]

I enjoy the reviews in MMM, even though I’m only window shopping.

One thing I’d really like to see included in reviews is the owner’s manual for the van. This is an essential and important bit of ‘kit’ and is seldom if ever covered in reviews in MMM or other publications. Our last two AutoSleepers had manuals that were very poorly written next to useless and were of abysmal print quality.

 

[Smick]

Thanks for all the varied responses.

 

I wouldn't want to give the impression that I discount all the reviews - in fact the latest by the Bromleys on a 6 berth coachbuilt is exactly the sort of review I like to read in that it gives both good & bad sides of the story. I also agree with the comments about the reviews by the the Stotherts, whose critical asides give you a good idea about what to look out for.

 

I hope the Editor will take on board the message that all reviews need to paint a very full picture of all the aspects of the van - even to the manual. That way, readers can make checklists of questions they want to ask, things they need to check, etc, when they go to view a van.

[roger20]

I agree with AuntyGranty that George Hinton from the Caravan Club gives, in my view the most helpful and objective reviews of new motorhomes. This all the more so because of the limited amount of space he has to cover so many aspects of a motorhome

[Rosbotham]

I do sometimes wonder whether motorhome reviewers come from some kind of lilliputian world. Take Rachel Stothert's review of the compact Burstner Ixeo Time this month. Nice van, and apparently is tardis-like. However, little criticism of the fact that the roof height in the lounge is 5ft 8.5 inch. And no mention at all (outside the specs at the back) that the principal drop-down "double" narrows to 4ft, and the one made up in the lounge - described as a double! - narrows from 3ft 4 inch to 1ft 7inch. P-lease...

[colin]

Thats one of my pet hates, narrow beds.

As for hieght in lounge, I think Rachel would need some hellessly high heels to find that a problem :D

[Homenaway]

colin - 2011-04-04 7:58 PMI went to view a 'quality' van the day after an MMM writer had it for a review. Much was made in the review of the quality of build, what wasn't mentioned, and the dealer also hadden't seen was the missing casette blind next to bed and the various screws and fittings that had fell off during transit :-S Also to be considered is that a lot of Adria Twins are proboly running around with a overloaded front axle and this was 'Van of Year' in it's catogory a while back.IMO these reviews can only be regarded as 'pointers' as to layout and possible suitabilty, you still have to make your own more thourh investigations, which in case of Twin is not something your average punter would be easily able to do.

A bit off topic but our Twin (100 multijet) had a front axle weight of 1620Kg vs 1750g on the VIN plate when we weighed it when loaded for a long trip Total weight 3160Kg vs 3300Kg - maybe the larger engined versions have a problem.

I agree that too many of the reviews are standard phrases reworked and don't often offer critical comments. 

Whilst Andy's travel articles are quite informative and amusingly written, and he is an excellent photographer, the derogatory names for Marion are getting a bit tiresome now IMHO.

Having had a couple of articles published a few years ago the full page photos such as in their latest May article must be a good earner as we got paid by the column-inches! 

Steve

  

[nuevoboy]

Rosbotham - 2011-04-08 8:43 PM

 

I do sometimes wonder whether motorhome reviewers come from some kind of lilliputian world. Take Rachel Stothert's review of the compact Burstner Ixeo Time this month. Nice van, and apparently is tardis-like. However, little criticism of the fact that the roof height in the lounge is 5ft 8.5 inch. And no mention at all (outside the specs at the back) that the principal drop-down "double" narrows to 4ft, and the one made up in the lounge - described as a double! - narrows from 3ft 4 inch to 1ft 7inch. P-lease...

 

I'm glad someone elso has noticed this too.

We looked at this model last month and were shocked at the lack of headroom. And as we're 5' 6" and 5' 2" it came as a bit of a surprise. It's interesting to note that the 'van supplied to her has no oven. If she really is tiny, she might have enjoyed the fact that the oven was eye level. However, to normal sized folk, they would have to get on bended knee to do the cooking.

Finally, I've never seen such shoddy furniture since MFI burst on to the scene in the late 60's.

I'm sure the long term test will reveal how poorly put together the units are and how sharp the edges are too.

[Rayjsj]

colin - 2011-04-08 9:04 PM

 

Thats one of my pet hates, narrow beds.

As for hieght in lounge, I think Rachel would need some hellessly high heels to find that a problem :D

 

She obviously 'takes after' her mum rather than her dad.

On the 'lack or excess of height' subject Whoever invented the 'Tech Tower, big fridge + afterthought Oven' wants Shooting by the 'Elf n' Safety' police. The thought of Boiling Casserole over the head doesn't bear thinking about. Any Van with one (as well as needing a ladder or steps to get to Bed) is automatically rejected by us particular 'testers' as Unuseable. That cuts it down a bit......doesn't it !

And whatever happened to 'Batten-Hills' ? they were pretty good testers for MMM too. :D Ray